ubit

It's funny, as some of you have mentioned, there is stuff I used to hate, genres even, that I now have grown to enjoy. I was, in my formative years a metal head and would not entertain anything else that didn't have thrashing guitars. As I've grown more maturer than wot I was, my taste has mellowed, or at least widened and I can now include Bluegrass, reggae, country, rap, classical and even opera as favourites. I don't think there is one genre that I could say I hate. Maybe jazz, but I like some jazz, so not completely. Jazz funk is a bit of a no no for me, but it's just certain songs that irk me. There's some good ones listed that I had forgotten about. Rod Stewart is a particular hate of mine that I had probably hidden in some dark corner of my mind, locked safely away until someone mentioned him

We all have varying tastes, I mean that's what makes the music world so interesting and whilst we all have certain songs or bands that we love more than any others, I was wondering if any of you have certain songs that you absolutely hate, to the point of having to leave a room or turn off the radio? Personally, and I know I will upset a few folks here, but I absolutely detest American Pie , money for nothing, walk of life, pretty much anything by the Doors or the Beatles for that matter and last but not least under pressure, which I think I'm actually allergic to!

[quote name='Black Coffee' timestamp='1427454721' post='2730531'] I wouldn't have a jazz built, if I was wanting a four string Id just buy the Geddy Lee sig in sunburst. Black blocks on a maple fretboard, perfect neck profile (for me) and sounds like I feel a passive bass should. I had a CIJ like this and I still don't why I sold it. Probably because I'm stupid. [/quote] I have a black one of these and the neck is to die for. It's just so fast!

Never apologise for posting! I have never seen this subject posted before and am interested in hearing people's views on the subject. There are always new members joining and I would never say I'm sick of a subject because no one can be expected to trawl through every post just in case they bore some seasoned poster who is sick of hearing about it! I've never tried neons, but have been slightly under impressed with coated strings like Elixirs. Funnily enough, the Elixir guitar strings are incredible and stay bright for such a long time. I just found the bass strings don't have the zing you get from new rounds.

It's clearly an understanding of terms I think. I always referred to the beat as the drum beat, therefore being behind the drum beat, you are out of time. JPJ summed it up to me by saying "leaning back on the beat" which is what the band in the above song , are doing. Some of the earlier examples were just plain out of time and sounded rotten , cos let's face it, if a band is not playing as a unit, it's gonna sound poxy. That Lettuce song was never out of time, but you could get a feel of them leaning back on the beat. Once again, I apologise for my original post and I stand corrected about playing behind or in front of the beat. Edit, in my original post, I asked [u]IS[/u] this pretentious sh*te, or am I missing something? Some folks have gotten just a bit hot under the collar, maybe it was the title, but then again, it got noticed.

I have 14 basses and without fail, every time we gig, I think right, I'm going to use different ones this time and always it gets right up to packing the car and it's the P bass and the J bass that come ( two tunings for rockier stuff and traditional) It never fails. The woody inactive sounds are just perfect!

Even his term whether you push it or lean back on the beat, speaks to me much more than before. I just couldn't get my head round playing out with the beat , which sounds alien to me.

[quote name='DiceSociety' timestamp='1430916969' post='2765884'] This link of john paul jones talking about, and demonstrating playing ahead of, and behind the beat is quite interesting I think. Skip to 11:50 on the link. Picture quality is pretty poor though, and it's a shame that his bass isn't plugged in. Oh well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaa1axJ63Qg [/quote] Thank you, I think that has been the clearest example to me about playing around the beat. I think I have known about this without realising it, or knowing what I was doing. I feel like I have had an epiphany!

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1430916553' post='2765876'] What constitutes a "pro" and what thy do and dont know, is a subject for another thread. The point in [u]this[/u] thread is that you are castigating others (regardless of their career status) for discussing something that [u]you[/u] have not yet grasped. [/quote] I did apologise for my lack of understanding. Let's not get into a slagging match after it's been sorted .

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1430913241' post='2765825'] Not read the whole thread but I am astonished that someone refers to pros as 'pretentious' for discussing a well established musical phenomenon. [/quote] Just because someone makes their living playing bass does not neccasarily mean they know everything about music. A bass player could be "professional" purely because his guitarist mate can write great songs and they got lucky and got a deal . Maybe it's better to read all the posts before wading in with your lot

I appreciate what you are saying now and think I am probably doing this subconsciously anyway as when I'm playing with a drummer in say a slow number, I will obviously try to lock in with him, but there's no way that I will be consciously listening to every drum hit to make sure I'm in time. Some of the swing will be supplied by me. I am also the singer which further proves I can't listen to the drummer all the time. Any bass hits will be "felt" and any that are slightly behind the drum hit will be so undescernable that you wouldn't notice this obviously. I get what you mean about the "feel" of a piece of music rather than just playing on auto, it's just the whole explanation that you are playing before or after the bass drum beat,that sounds like tosh to me as that would be clearly out of time. I think it's an understanding rather than dismissal that was needed and I apologise for any offence. I still think the crazy little thing videos are not the best example as the first one is clearly slower and not so "urgent"

The original is clearly quicker !

See this is what I'm talking about. There have been occasions when a drummer might have started a piece slightly too slow or quickly. You as a bass player will obviously follow to a certain point , but you will try and influence the way you want it to go by edging slightly one way or the other. The thing that gets me is, you would be wanting the drummer to , say, slow down, so once he has done this, you would be back on the beat.

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1430845932' post='2765156'] Yet your view on the subject is in no way patronising, dismissive, and quite ignorant? You say you've played in bands for years, what type of bands, and what style of music are you into and influenced by? Genuine question cause I struggle to see how you can dismiss a technique quite a lot of players have built professional careers from? [/quote] Just when have I been patronising? I have played a large variety of music. My taste is very wide covering many genres apart from jazz, which I'm not too keen on. Every example posted showing behind the beat playing has sounded right on the beat to me. I'm dismissive of the concept purely because the timing is so small that it's hard to really visualise it being played by a band in a live situation where you would notice. If it was noticeable , it would sound like the band is out of time.

I didn't mean that he was patronising. I thought you were being patronising by posting a video of a guy explaining how to play in time to someone who has been playing in bands for a very long time. I've got no problem with playing in time. It's this playing out of time that I can't handle

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1430842176' post='2765101'] It's not jazz. It's all music. This guy explains what playing in a group is all about. http://youtu.be/cYVCfb5Ou88 [/quote] Very patronising, cheers!

It would give credence to a lot of rubbish bands that can now say " we're not out of time, I'm playing behind the beat!"

I agree that when you have music digitalised and you can actually see the music in front of you, say on a computer screen, then you can move the bass swell to the left or right of the drum swell, which would make the bass behind or in front of the beat, and could alter the feel of the piece,but what I'm saying is a human playing live would struggle to play constantly behind or in front of the beat without sounding out of time. As shown by the clips that have been added to this thread. I agree that it could be done subconsciously I.e. you can get the feel of the piece and drag or rush without thinking. I will carry on playing in time with my drummer and I promise never to delve into the world of jazz to spoil anyone's behind the beat experience!

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1430832931' post='2764982'] I'm so confused... [/quote] Me too mate, as stated before I'm kind of thinking emperors new clothes here. None of the clips that are said to be behind or ahead sound completely in time to me apart from the ones that are obvious in which case, they sound out of time !

Yes it's a choice. If you want to sound like you've picked up the instrument for the first time! I think in a studio where you can alter the attack of notes, you could minutely bring the note forward or back, but to consciously play ahead or behind will make it sound out of time. Every example I've heard either sound right on the beat or so far out that it's laughable!

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1430778283' post='2764563'] How does this sound? [media]http://youtu.be/Adh5aKRrsmw[/media] [/quote] Dreadful! Sorry, to me that sounds mince!

[quote name='paulears' timestamp='1430808853' post='2764644'] The trouble is these people are trying to dumb down their natural playing process into language beginners can digest, and it goes wrong. Every musician who pushes and pulls intuitively understands, but the people playing by numbers see it as another technique to mimic, understanding and appropriateness not being important. It's like those amateur singers who tried to mimic Whitney houston's singing style with the wailing and microphone in/outs she used with great effect, without understanding how she did it, becoming a sound mans nightmare! [/quote] See that's a bit too condescending for me. I have said I think it's a feel thing rather than a conscious decision to play in front of or behind the beat, then a number of people have posted examples which, when I've listened to them have been right on the beat. I think the reggae one was to show why you should play right on the beat, cos when he wasn't on it, it sounded dreadful. Again . As I've said, I've played for years, done various styles of music and it's always sounded ok, so I must be unconsciously achieving whatever it is that gives the groove. As has been said, the difference is so tiny, that it's hard to hear. I certainly don't play by numbers. I've been doing it for about 35 years! I can't count that much!

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1430763567' post='2764397'] I must have cloth ears then, because I listened to both as carefully as I know how and I didn't hear either bass player playing a note ahead of or behind where it 'ought' to have fallen. Flea sounds totally locked in to the drummer; although Pino is playing a more free-range baseline, each note sounds to me as though it sits bang on the rhythm. Am I wrong? Which notes in the phrase is either bassist putting ahead of or behind where it should go? [/quote] And again, thank f***, someone can see this! Behind the beat is out of time and don't sound good. Half beats do not count. The rhythm is where bass should sit. Anywhere else does not sound good to my untrained ears. I like music to be in time and something I can tap my foot to. Lagging bass makes me think that guy has no clue about rhythm . If this is some kind of stylish fad where players reckon you are achieving some artful masterpiece by playing slightly out of time, then count me out!

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1430764265' post='2764406'] Agreed [/quote] Praise the Lord, someone at last has the guts to agree! Cheers mate!

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1430749502' post='2764229'] Game set match redstriper! On to more musical myths that need debunking! Ringo was a shi# drummer, anyone? [/quote] Me no care wot e says! Whe e play be'ind de beat, he is out a time and it sounds sh*te and out a time. When e plays on de beat, it's on de money and sounds like it should!