Greg Edwards69

I have the Blackstar Core ID Beam.  It has a couple of bass amp models (modern and vintage), compression and a few bass optimised drive effects, not to mention bluetooth for jamming along with.  One of the acoustic models is actually completely flat, which is quite handy if I want to hook my Helix up to it for more in depth home practice.

Only issue I have is to properly edit patched and tweak eq settings you need to hook it up to a computer via usb which is a PITA. Plus,  blackstar appear to run about a year or so behind MacOS releases and the software isn't guaranteed to run properly if you regularly updated you mac.  By the time they pull their collective finger out and release an updated, their still a macos release or too behind.   If you're running windows, you'll have no such issues.

PS, I'm rather smitten by those new mini beatle stack, although they are rather larger than you're looking for.  That said, I'm tempted to trade my blackstar in for a vox adio air BS.  Looks like a more user friendly practice amp than my blackstar.

On 13/10/2019 at 18:58, Tripehound said:

Has anyone tried putting a bass (via Helix) through one of these?

Wondering about getting one for home noodling and band rehearsals. Curious to know whether it will keep up with a drummer being allegedly 1000W...

I’ve been thinking the same. I use the 112 which I’m happy with, but it’s still a large fairly heavy unit to lug to rehearsals and too big to practice at home with. 
 

the volume shouldn’t be an issue, I’m more concerned about the low end cut off. The 112 is flat down to around 53hz ish, then rolls off to around 46hz. The cut off on the 108 is a bit higher, flat down to 62hz and rolls off down to 52hz. 

it may br okay at reasonable volume, but may struggle at the very low end when cranked up. 
 

I think the only way is to try one and find out. 
 

ps, these units are rated 2000w peak, 1000 continuous. Volume wise, in real works terms, it behaves similar to a 350-500w bass combo, which for many of us is smoke power. 

10 hours ago, Muzz said:

I tried the bigger Headrush FRFR (the 112) in PMT a few weeks ago, and I wasn't at all convinced it would keep up with a drummer, therefore I'd say the 108 wouldn't have a hope, unless your drummer is verrry quiet.

What did you try it with? I use the 112 with the Helix and it’s plenty loud keeps up with my fairly hard hitting drummer no problem. He even used the second channel for his Roland drum trigger device and the volume matches the acoustic kit. 

Just saying, and it's no excuse for the lack of enforcement of quiet periods, but complimentary earplugs were offered at the reception desk. Crappy industrial foam ones, but they were offered.

I guess we should be thankful.  The older combined music shows featured keyboard and drum manufacturers too.  Those drummers can be noisy buggers, and they don't come with headphones!

I quite enjoyed it and appreciated that the bass show and guitar show were joined as I attended with the two guitarists from my band and met my brother there who is also a guitarist. And to be quite fair, there’s a lot of crossover between the two instruments in terms of both technology and manufacturers who cater to both. 

It was the first one I’ve been to for about 10 years and I do feel a little disappointed by the size of the show (last couple I went to were at the excel, and a couple at Wembley before that and one at Birmingham. These were much bigger events. Even the major manufacturer stands were significantly smaller than I expected, and a few notable absences (Yamaha, Line 6, Boss/Roland, Gibson, PMT, Andertons). I wonder if there’s a reason for this?

That said, we all went without any particular GAS preconceptions and just wanted a day out looking at some of the latest gear, we wasn’t disappointed. There’s was a few things I haven’t had the opportunity to see, hear or touch in the flesh and most of them were there.

Had a brief chat with Alex @ barefaced and spoke about the gap in the market for a bass focused active frfr speaker, definitely tempted to get a one10 now, I couldn’t believer the tone, depth and volume coming out of a seemingly empty shoebox. 

Finally got to try a Dingwall. I completely get the appeal of the multi scale neck, feels quite natural. The diminutive Jackson Minion bass is rather tempting as a fun little living room instrument, even as a cool little backup bass. I was also quite wowed by the new Vox Starstream Bass. Beautiful piece of engineering, feels great in the hands and lightweight. I also need to convince the wife that the mini super beetle bass amp and cab would be a nice addition to the living room. 

My guitarist friends were quite wowed with the shergold guitars, as was I. Fantastic sounding and feeling guitars at a perfect price point. We had high hopes for Jamie Humphries AmpliTube ‘Brian May’ demo - shame the sound system was dreadful. 

Fianally, John Wheatcroft’s jazz guitar session was very informative, even for us bass players. I took some useful tools away from his session that could apply to any instrument and genre. 

So yes, a good day out, but I hanker for the days of the bigger music show! 

You forgot one...

"We really love it when you get as close to the band as possible, especially if you have a beer in your hand and you trip over the power cables, knock mic stands over and fall on one of the pedalboards."

Oh, and.

"yes, those speakers we bought are just for you to put your drinks on, don't worry about spilling anything onto them".

I've recently jumped into the amp modelling ship with the Line 6 Helix.  Got it in the spring and initially ran it into the fx return of my Carvin BX700 with Markbass 121H cab.  The amp and cab sounded good, although I knew I wanted to streamline and replace the amp with an FRFR solution.  This way I would be confident that the sound on stage would match the sound in the PA and IEM.

Now using a Headrush FRFR-112 and I'm very happy with it so far.  It sounds bigger and deeper than you'd expect. On paper it doesn't go as low as a dedicated bass cab, (Freq Resp 53hz-20khz +/-3db and Freq Range 46hz-22khz -10db), but a benefit of this is it's akin to having a built-in hpf - you can turn up the wick and it still sounds bassy but doesn't get muddy and boomy.

I don't use cab models or IRs.  I prefer a simple eq lpf eq block at the end of the chain to tame the tweeter. My reasoning is that almost every recorded bass tone you hear, and most live bass tones are usually DI from the bass into the desk or straight out of the amp. If a bass cab is mic'd it's usually blended with a DI.  The tone I get out of an amp model straight to my FRFR sounds so much better, punchier and 'real' than the tone of an amp model, through a mic'd up cab, through my FRFR.  Besides, many bass players, including myself, tend to choose an amp and cab solution that colours the bass tone as little as possible.  You could argue that many bass amps/cabs are already FRFR. If this is your preference, why change it with a mic'd cab model?

Also, FWIW, the SVT-Pro4 model in the latest Helix update is pretty damn perfect. Line 6 have really knocked it out of the park with this amp model.  I've never used and ampeg and never bought an amp becuase of its colouration, but this one just sounds so good and sits in the mix perfectly. 

Looking back at old gig photos in disbelief at what I was wearing to an average pub gig.

Then there's the time I was depping with a friends band and had to change basses after the first song, so I didn't bother wrapping my lead through my strap as I usually do.  Only for me to stand on said leaf halfway through the song and pull it out.

17 hours ago, JohnA said:

I’ve had an alto (same as a head rush) and a Yamaha DXR10, the DXR is loads better, a lot louder and more bottom end available

you would struggle with the headrush IMO

Hmmm.  I tried my guitarists DXR10 alongside my headrush and they both performed admirably for my usage.  I preferred the bottom end of the headrush however at volume.  The specs show that the DXR10 has a higher low end roll off compared to the headrush.  Still a great sounding speaker though.  We use the DXR12's for our mains FOH speaker.

FWIW:

• DXR10: Frequency range 56Hz - 20kHz (-10db)
• Headrush FRFR-112: Frequency range 46 Hz – 22 kHz (-10 dB) and Frequncy Response 53 Hz – 20 kHz (+/- 3 dB)

Yamaha hasn't published a +/-3db frequency response for the DXR10 as far as I can see, but I'm certain it doesn't run as low as the headrush.

Saying that. I realise that reproducing the fundamental isn't as important as many think - reproduction of the first and second-order harmonics is where the booty lies. The smaller headrush 108 has an even higher low end roll off (62hz - 20khz +/- 3db) and believe it or not, I'm tempted!  I tried emulating the low cut on my helix and it sounded surprisingly good in rehearsal.  I wouldn't want to gig with it at rock band volume, but it would be more than adequate and easier to manage for rehearsals and the odd low volume gig.

7 minutes ago, 1976fenderhead said:

Haha was going through it right now. 

Also, would like people's opinions on whether the Alto / Headrush 12 inch speakers do a good job. And are they the same?

I have posted a detailed review of the Headrush 112 in the above megathread.  For me, it does a great job as a backline amp paired with a Helix. However, I think how well it performs largely depends on your expectations and what you're comparing it too.  I have only ever owned single speaker combos and cabs so transitioning to the headrush wasn't such a shock.  If you're going from a larger multi-speaker cab such as a 4x10 then you would do well to beg/borrow/steal before committing yourself.

As for whether the Alto and Headrush are the same or not is a matter that has never been quite cleared up. Some say they are essentially the same except for the mic preamp in the Alto which makes the headrush perform better for guitar/bass, some say there are some other differences such as internal baffling that tunes the headrush better for guitar/bass. I never had the chance to compare, as I found a used headrush 112 and case for the same price as a new Alto, so bought it straightaway.

Update on the Headrush FRFR-112

We had a party at the weekend for my wife's birthday.  Hired out a bar, 80s theme, costumes.... the works!  We had carefully curated 5 hours worth of classic 80s pop which I planned to play from my ipad straight into the headrush using a stereo to mono adaptor.

Sat the headrush in a corner on a table, engaged the contour switch for little more bass and treble excitement and...

Wow!. 

The sound and clarity from such an inexpensive speaker.  Yes, I know that it's basically a PA speaker, but I was quite honestly stunned.  Bags of volume and punchy room-filling sound (enough to make the mother-in-law ask me to turn it down - I, of course, said no, it's a party, move away from the speaker!) and the low end kept up without a struggle and without getting muddy.  A few guests asked me about the speaker and were surprised at the low cost - one of them even started looking on ebay there and then, haha.

If were in a place to recommend an inexpensive PA system to band I'd have no hesitation in telling them to get a couple of alto tops and sub if they need one. My brother, who's part of an am-dram group is also thinking about recommending Alto as an upgrade to their sound system on the strength of the headrush.

--------

PS - gigged it a few times now for bass, very happy.  Our drummer uses the spare channel for his Roland TM-1 trigger module - sounds fab.

The esteemed Mssr Billy Sheehan for me. Not only does he do crazy things with the bass, but his choice of string gauge is perfect on my Attitude bass. 0.043 on the top to allow easier bends, and .110 on the bottom so it remains solid when flicking the d-tuner down to low E.

I picked up this idea from Billy Sheehan.  He has his pickup covers on the split P pickup set quite close to the strings and uses it as a ramp. Yes, it prevents you from overshooting the strings too much so you can play quicker, more consistently and less fatiguing.  But, because it's a much smaller area than a proper ramp you can play around the pickup if you do want to dig in more or use a plectrum.

There's an Attitude Bass owners group on FB. Some of the guys there have done what Billy does and apply a layer of epoxy to the surface of the pickup covers to get them closer to the strings without getting the pickup coils themselves closer.

I'm not that brave to I got some 3 ply pearloid scratchplate material cut down and stuck it to the top of the pickup covers with strong double-sided tape.  Looks great and plays even better.

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Well, even if you have previously owned just about every bit of bass gear that's been available, it's good to that see you still have attitude ... of a Yammy kind anyway 😀 

Haha. The gear in that list was used over many years - copied and pasted it from my talkbass profile. It is in no way intended to show off - a lot of it isn't boutique or desirable anyway.  It's just there as a reminder to myself of what I've previously owned and could offer real-world advice on if requested.

4 hours ago, fretmeister said:

That's most of what I see, 10 lines missing at the bottom!

 

Haha - my bad.  I added my profile info to the signature box my mistake.  Schoolboy error.

Apologies for derailing the thread. As you were.

I don't even know what happened there - I don't even have a signature set.  All I can see is a large grey box above the quoted posted reading "0 Advanced issues found".

The edit button doesn't work either so I can't fix it - must be a corrupted post!

 

 

0

 Advanced issues found

▲

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The new Marcus Limited range seems to have dealt with ALL the EQ shortcomings that were gripes for me with the old LM3. The LM3 had the bass EQ centre set too low at 40Hz, a massive 'hole' between high-mid centre EQ and treble EQ, and with the treble EQ being centred at a less than useful 10kHz.

The EQ centre points and semi-para mids look like just the ticket on this new model - so I think it's going to be their best D class head yet. It should give you a bit more of that Markbass warmth to contrast with the clean tone of your DG M900 and I suspect you're going to love it  

Btw - if you're wanting that top end zing for slap, do your cabs have a tweeter?

That about sums up my thoughts too.  I always felt the low was too low and the low mid was too high. There was nothing in between in the critical 100-250hz area.  The high mid was about perfect at 800hz but again, another hole between low mid and high mid with no way to cut the 500hz honk.

I sold my LM2 in favour of a Carvin BX700 a number of years ago. If I was in a place to buy a new amp the MM range are definitely ones I'd consider.

All moot now though as I've switched to Helix and FRFR.

On 30/06/2019 at 13:16, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

No problem mate. 

Oh, I see you live in Leigh!

Coming to Leigh Rock on the the 6th?

I'm afraid not. Wish we could, but we'll be sitting around a pool in sunny Spain instead.

PS, how was the Venue on Friday. We played at The Garrison on Saturday and The Castle on Sunday. Absolutely melting! Saturday was one of the warmest gigs I've played.

On 29/06/2019 at 01:02, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Well done Paul. Great to see you tonight. 

@Frank Blank & @Greg Edwards69, were you there?

Sorry, chap, wife's been struggling after a minor foot op and didn't fancy standing all evening. Not to mention I was gigging last night and again this afternoon so needed a night off.

21 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

I love Thumbs. I generally find they have a better tone than a Stingray and also balance well so long as you wear them high. They are heavy though. 

I don't think they are particularly heavy, I think is just the ergonomics that make them appear so.  The 4 string BO Thumb is 7.7lbs and the 5 string BO I had is 8.14lbs. Not a lot different to a typical Stingray or Fender, perhaps even a tad lighter.

But yes, the tone is stellar.

I may have to drag the wife out

I used to play a 5 string Thumb BO for a number of years.  It's a fine sounding bass, and some might say, a more defined growl than the Stingray and had one of the best necks I've ever played, and one that only gets better the more you play it.

But, and it's a big but, the ergonomics (or 'geometry' as you say) are not for everyone. With a tiny body, big chunky neck and short upper horn, it's rather unbalanced and neck heavy. Some people recommend a wide grippy strap but all that did for me is ruck up my shirt. Others have no such issue with the instrument. You could say it's a rather 'marmite' issue - people are either fine with it or can't deal with it. Personally, it got to the point that I was in pain for a couple of days after every gig, so it had to go, as much as I loved the instrument.

I went in a completely different direction and now play a Yamaha Attitude Ltd2 (essentially a hot-rodded P bass). Totally different tone, feel and ergonomics. Funny thing is, when I pulled out the Thumb last year to sell it after languishing in a gig bag for 8 years, I just couldn't play it very well. Felt totally alien to me.

So anyway, to sum up. Great sounding bass, well built, brilliant neck. But please do try before you buy, preferably on a strap for a whole gig.

Helix for me. Much easier.  

I guess you have to ask yourself, how much of your tone comes from the amp? And how much comes from the cab too, to a certain extent. Also, if the amp does play a part in your tone, but not the cab, can it be used without a cab plugged in?

FWIW, the next helix update will include an SVT-4 Pro model.  Could be a good replacement for your SVT-7

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Ding ding. Winner.

This was the very start of me getting away from amps. I always loved the sound that I could get when recording but could never seem to replicate it through any rig I tried. It was only when I stumbled upon EBS - and the HD350 and TD650 that I got back towards the studio sound that I was looking for - but it was still good but not quite there. Then I started experimenting with studio preamps and power amps through PA cabs... then I removed the power amp element to make use of DSPs to get a flatter response from the cab. There it was. But then I wanted a bit more diversity in my sounds.... so that's when I got a Kemper. So now, I run channel strip profiles, with the cab emulation turned off... and I'm in a very happy place. 

I used to use Pod Farm for practice at home and the odd bit of recording. I didn't care for any of the bass amp models and much preferred the console emulations

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

IMO amp and cab modelling is a bit of a red herring.

After all the original purpose of a bass amp and speakers was simply a way of getting a loud sound out of a solid electric instrument. The fact that amps (and cabs) had "sounds" was mostly an accident or limitations of the technology in the 50s and 60s, and has only become desirable later on once we've all got used to hearing them. The original musical instrument amplifiers were never design to have a sound. They were supposed to as neutral as the technology and price point allowed them to be.

Also most bass sounds we hear and like have never been anywhere near an amp or cabs. In the studio it will have been DI'd directly from the bass into some very expensive studio outboard EQ and compression units. On stage it will have been DI'd directly into the PA system.

Oh yes, I'm quite aware of that and it's history. It's my main reason and argument for not using cab modelling with the helix and my Headrush speaker. Like you say, most recorded and live bass sounds we hear are either DI, straight into the desk or from the amp's DI. It's rare you'll see a bass cab miked up as the only source, it's usually mixed with a DI if it is.

My previous amps have been pretty neutral sounding and I generally eq for the room rather than a specific tone - that what my pedals are for. I haven't really been a fan of amps that imprint a certain colour on every bass that's plugged into them - hence I've never really explored bass amp modelling.  That said, I'm loving the tone of the GK 800rb model in the Helix, it just works for me. A judicious and precise hi cut and it's there. And I can use the global eq to compensate for different rooms acoustics.  It's certainly made my life easier.  Having the confidence that the sound I get on stage will be replicated fairly accurately through the FOH will make a big difference. None of this pre/post DI nonsense. If I need to adjust my stage sound for the room I can do that without interfering with the FOH sound.