Al Krow

Well...I've managed to source a B stock CQ18T from Andertons for £40 more than the price of a new CQ12T, which has made the decision on which one to get much more straightforward 😊 Should be arriving later this week.

Following on from the same topic we've successfully run since 2018 - a chance for some useful hints and tips with Black Friday and Xmas goodies still ahead, and, of course, nothing to stop us changing our minds between now and year end! As with previous years, the only "house rules" are that it's bass gear and something you bought (or at least arrived) in 2024. Here's the last thread in the series from 2023 as a reminder of some of the goodies we bought then. And definitely post your GAS inducing pics please!

A wireless set up on bass does certainly help to hear yourself in the mix from the audience, in my experience. Having the ability to adjust the desk settings on the fly while you're still in the audience rather than having to walk back up to the stage and then back out to the audience and back again etc., should help speed things up during sound check? Only usually possible with a digital desk with wifi? I suspect a digital desk such as the A&H with no sliders or gain knobs, is going to be trickier for bandmates back on stage to figure out menus and adjust settings, unless they are prepared to put in the time to get up to speed, vs being able to adjust a post EQ volume slider or a pre EQ gain knob? So I can see that being able to tweak the desk settings from your phone or tablet from the audience as definitely having some benefits, which the built in router allows. We're a 4 piece band, so the 12 channels on the CQ12T would be ample for us, but I'm thinking that the wifi/built in router on the CQ18T could well come in very handy.

Would the router on the 18 not have come in handy? eg being able to stand in front of the speakers and real time adjust the FoH band mix via your phone or tablet?

Excellent thanks! Just what the doctor ordered!

I've also seen that the CQ18 has three multifunction rotary knobs not available on the CQ12 - do folk find these useful? Can these be used as a master volume control for the desk? The lack of anything obvious in that department in the CQ range is a bit of a concern if you there is a sudden volume/feedback spike!

Thanks Phil - I was hoping you could just let us know when each of the set ups comes up at what point in the video, as it's almost a 19 minute clip and be helpful in terms of going back and forth to compare?

Ah that's a shame - I'm guessing there was a fair bit of loss of low end from the phone mics and considerable further compression when uploaded to YT?

Thanks for sharing that. Could you note the time when each PA is playing at what point in the video for us please?

And you get to choose which channels each of the four FX channels applies to i.e. you can tailor for vox plus 3 additional instruments?

Sure thing. But is that impedance and level adjustment likely to be what Zoom are also delivering when switching from stereo headphone --> balanced mono for monitors on their L20 model?

Xvive/Zoom Livetrack - really happy to defer to you given your electronic engineering background, which I certainly don't have! Given what we found with the stereo / mono outputs from the Zoom L12, what would your reading of the cause be? A&H CQ18t - ah the lack of built wireless could be an issue down the line. Maybe well worth investing the extra in the CQ18t for that reason alone?

Thought it might be useful to quickly update on a couple of points: Zoom Livetrack with Xvive U4 IEMs Met up with another bass player who also provides the band PA last week - he uses a Zoom L12 desk. We got the exact same issue when using the headphone monitor outs with my Xvive U4 wireless IEMs i.e. a high pitched whine. HOWEVER when using one of the L/R outs, both individually mono, of the additional monitor output (not available on my L8) there was no whine! Conclusion: because the Xvive U4 are purely mono they don't play nicely with the Livetrack's stereo outputs. Fortunately for us Xvive U4 users most aux out are mono so this should not be an issue with most desks / monitor outs. Interestingly the Zoom L20, which would otherwise be overkill for our needs, has the ability to switch each of its 5 stereo outs from headphone stereo to mono balanced signal which should also deal with the issue. Just wondering whether the same stereo --> balanced mono is available with an adaptor? Unfortunately the L12 L/R outputs only have one mix so that does limit the use a bit. A&H CQ12 - multitrack recording I think there may have been some discussion elsewhere that the CQ12 didn't offer multitrack recording and we'd need to step up to the CQ18 to have that capability. Turns out that's not correct i.e. multi-track recording is available on the CQ12 too.

Oooh it sounds incredibly glitchy! But maybe that's the point of it and if that's your cup of tea... I'll be sticking with my Boss OC-5!

Killers - Somebody told me. Fun bass line which really drives the song!

Thanks, also an excellent summary! I think maybe where we are collectively landing is that for an "average" venue with a full rock band, the two following alternatives (which are likely to be a similar weight & cost) are both pretty compact and can be made to work well without backline: option 1: 2 x 12" tops (e.g. RCF 732A/932As, QSC K12.2) option 2: 2 x 10" tops (eg RCF310/710/910As) + single decent (15") sub Although we're probably no longer in the realms of a "budget" set up (referring back to the topic title from a couple of year's back), but a pretty decent quality one!

Haha thanks, it's actually been really useful! One of my 912A's needs to get serviced, and that's tied in with me thinking about upgrading. Hearing @Jack's band sound so good with that bigger set up makes going for something like that very tempting, but being reminded that will be great for larger & outdoor venues (but overkill in a typical pub set up) and will mainly benefit the drums was important to hear. I think it may well be time to have a chat with the drummer and agree a split of investment for the band e.g. me desk & lights and he can sort out a sub!!

Phil, that's an excellent summary, thank you! Also a useful reminder that: we add a sub primarily to improve the drums (kick and floor toms) and not for the bass guitar 😊

Complete aside - sorry to hear that Jack, from the video you shared, it has the look and feel of a really good band! What's been the struggle in terms of finding your feet?

Hi Phil - didn't quite follow what you were saying here. My question about 15" vs 12" was really directed at adding a sub to our set up. I guess for us (= me, and I don't have Jack's transportation capability or weight carrying youth!), it's going to be boil down a choice of: (i) option 1: 2 decent 12" tops (maybe RCF 932As?) vs (ii) option 2: single sub plus 2 x 10" tops (maybe even 310As) - my query was whether the RCF 702 AS II Mk3 is going to cut the ice, or whether we really need to be going for the 705 if we were using a sub? And I guess, if we do go "further up the sound chain" it would be: (iii) option 1A: 2 932As plus a single sub - at which point I'm guessing folk would likely say the RCF 702 is not going to add too much and we would need to have something like the 705? So back to the 15" vs 12" for a sub question?

Did you ever consider getting a 12" sub (eg the RCF 702) or is the consensus that you really need to be at 15" when it comes to subs, even with something as decent quality as RCF?

Cheers Jack! The bass is actually very clear through a pair of decent headphones and I can imaging the extra thump you would have been getting live! Nice one!

I think someone elsewhere mentioned that multi-track recording was not possible on the CQ-12T, but it seems that's not a limitation ie possible to record multi-track both straight to a DAW and also to an SD card? Also really like the sound of: "CQ’s Feedback Assistant automatically detects and eliminates problem frequencies using up to 16 filters per output so you can mix with confidence – and forget about feedback." @warwickhunt - have you noticed any reduction in feedback?

Thanks Jack. Any clips of your pop punk band with the RCF set up? 2 x 910A plus a 705ii sub sounds like a very decent alternative to 2 x 932As or 732As! (Although I suspect the mids / vox may well benefit from the larger 3" voice coils on the x32 speakers).

Looking for a recommendation for someone or a store in the Central/N London area who can service and repair PA's?