Al Krow

I personally prefer to take the views expressed by trusted and experienced fellow BCers (yours included!) to corroborate the sometimes inflated claims made by manufacturers about their products. But maybe that's just me.

Your question is exactly the right one. The 1$: 1£ conversion rate has long been accepted as the ballpark conversion rate to take account of shipping, customs and 20% VAT i.e. US made gear will cost approx 30% more in the UK. We can live with that, it's just a fact of life. But there is a level of profiteering going on here at the expense of Mesa's otherwise loyal European user base, which we are all finding more than a little like having one finger stuck up at us by the suppliers. And it's getting an understandable two fingered reaction from us as consumers. I'll be voting with my wallet.

That's very interesting. I struggled to find any legal action taken by Fender against Sandberg (and they would likely lose given their inability to trademark their equally iconic guitar designs, following their recent court loss). Hearsay or something more substantial? Sounds highly anti-competitive and illegal to me. Surprised that Sandberg didn't sue the pants of Fender, if this actually did happen and that they didn't have an army of lawyers on their doorstep looking to act for them on a no win no fee basis.

So I'm with you at the bottom (sub 60 Hz) range. But not there at the top end in my thinking (yet!). Doing the same sine wave tests at 5kHz and 10kHz, my hearing is pretty good still (in my case up to 13K) and there will be a lot of overtones in that range - what I refer to as 'zing' - that, for me, makes a difference which I can clearly hear in a cab that rolls off the high end eg a Markbass 112 or a BF SC (and I suspect similarly the BF 210 / BF ST) and those that don't eg the VK 210s, the BF BB2 and, from what others have said the BF SM. Now, obviously, there are plenty of folk who prefer the more vintage tones of cabs that roll off the high end. For me, I would prefer the option of having the high end when I want it and dialling it out via bass / pedal / amp EQ when I don't.

Get the best that you can afford, and be content with your lot. I'll leave you to do the cost / benefit analysis! In my case my headphones are a huge amount better than the tiny speakers on my computer for hearing this stuff through.

Ok thanks, so that's a yes. There's a thing called a 'free market' model which I and most Americans are normally fans of. More competition is a good thing particularly when, as it seems to be the case here, the local operators are ripping off their customers. Btw Amazon has no difficulty undermining local UK retailers either.

Surely it does depend on matching the cabs very carefully to make sure they are complimentary? It seems that the SC and SM work well together, from your experience. But from the advice I've seen on other threads ('daisy chaining two cabs') this is very much not always the case, and you would, more often than not, be worse off with two different cabs than two of the same. You then have the cost / convenience of 2 cabs vs a better 112 or a 212.

Yup, I think I might just have... 😄

Been a discussion about whether we need to worry about the 'fundamentals' on another thread. You might find this interesting to check out. Low B string - fundamental Low E string - fundamental Low B string - first harmonic (i.e. one octave up from the low B) Low E string - first harmonic (i.e. one octave up = low E string on a 6 string guitar)

Agreed. Maybe not so counterintuitive once you've had a listen to the low note fundamentals (which I thought I'd better do, following the discussion above!) Low B string - fundamental Low E string - fundamental Low B string - first harmonic (i.e. one octave up from the low B) Low E string - first harmonic (i.e. one octave up = low E string on a 6 string guitar) (Recommend you use a decent pair of headphones).

@agedhorse if we bought one of these in the US for $999 and got it shipped over to the UK, would there be any issues with the different voltages or is there simple switch to cater for the difference in the UK and US current / voltage i.e. can a US model be easily used in the UK?

Indeed there is - which I'll have to 'fess got me thinking about F112's seriously for the first time as this FS ad coincided with me thinking about upgrading my BF SC. But now I've seen just how handsome the F112 looks in black with a black grille (as pictured in the OP), I'd personally find it hard to go for another finish, so I'm resigned to stumping up the extra 15% for a new one. But even then, a new F112 would still be a nearly £100 saving on the BF BB2 (which is an eye watering £894 with silver cloth & cover). They're both beaten on value terms by the VK 112MNT, which is further £85 cheaper.

I've just heard from a Swedish bassist that the guy making TKS cabs has stopped production due to ill health. Is this old news? If the TKS 1126 is no longer being made, that's a real shame. @funkle you mentioned needing bags of power to get the most out of the Fearless and an adjustable HPF for some scenarios. It seems to me that Mesa's WD-800 could be a match made in heaven for the F112...

@funkle great post! Thanks.

I've got Alnicos in my Yammys and also like them a lot. Seems to be a bit of a pattern with views being expressed on the Berg Delanos. I like fretmeister's description of them being a little 'hi fi' in the mids. A nicer description than my 'tame / polite / civilised' , but I suspect conveying exactly the same point. Up to folk to take from that what they will!

John Deacon liked sunburst?! Well if it's good enough for him... 😄 Congrats on the new basses.

40 Hz isn't really that low. It's just below the fundamental on the open E string. 31 Hz is the open B string fundamental. 20 Hz to 30 Hz is super low dub territory. < 20 Hz is sub audio crud which should IMO be given a good thumpinatoring.

Kind of you to say - haha! I know what you mean about spending > £1k on a bass and finding that you need to spend another £300 on replacement pups. Totally with you on that one. Maybe the angle is to get a used Berg for around the £750 mark and then swap the pups round? Just a thought. And, like you, I'd be interested to hear a bit more about these coveted Black Label pups - @fretmeister could we ask you to have a go at describing the key differences in sound between the Delanos and the Black Labels please?

I've been thinking about a possible upgrade of my BF SC recently and seem to have narrowed down my shortlist to the Fearless 112 and Barefaced BB2 (and very possibly also the TKS 1126). @jrixn1 mentioned some excellent comparisons done across the pond, and this thread in particular caught my eye, which I'm sharing in case it's of interest to others: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/comparing-f112-bb2.1245612/ If any BC'ers have also had the good fortune to have owned both, then please of course also feel free to add your thoughts to this thread. And I'll have to admit, although it's a very shallow point, I can't get away from just how good that Fearless cab looks in black with that particular option grille!

@dave_bass5 Just spotted this old recording we did 18 months ago. Played on a TM4 with Delano pups. There's just one comment on the YouTube video from the public - which completely undermines what I've being saying about Delanos! Lol!

Hah - where were you when I needed you with that comment? How would you describe the key differences in sound between the Black Labels and Delanos?

If they're Delanos I did find them a bit 'tame' / polite / civilised ...that plus 2 band rather than 3 band EQ (although that won't be an issue for you as you're a passive guy). The bass was otherwise just lovely.

I've had one before and in my experience it was. I think we could expect it to be because the LNT is voiced to go lower (40Hz vs 45Hz). Noted re the volume, which is a good point, thanks. I suspect the combination (if I did ever end up with using them both) would be with the MNT being used as a stage monitor for me and the band, where the lower volume would make sense. In practice I can't currently really ever see myself needing any more output for the audience than the single 4ohm LNT will be able to produce alone - e.g. it can handle the full 900W from my DG amp.

So picking up where I left off a few months back, I didn't in the end go for the VK 115 for the various reasons set out earlier in this thread, in particular the preference for matching cone sizes by most folk who were 'in the know'. I've recently been offered the possibility of adding a VK210 MNT 8ohm / 600W to my VK210 LNT 4ohm / 1200W The MNT (voiced 45Hz to 16kHz) is a bit lighter and a little brighter sounding than the LNT (voiced 40Hz to 16kHz) I suspect, however, not quite the same amount of difference as between the SM / SC cabs that Chris is using. Dimensions => permit them to be stacked (or used apart) If I've done the math correctly, then when daisy chained together: the combined ohm will 2.67 ohms. but also that 2/3 of the amp power should flow to the the 4 ohm LNT and 1/3 to the 8 ohm MNT, which is exactly the right ratio given their different power handling capacity => use the MNT for rehearsals and pub gigs - where portability will be valued by me (I guess, ideally I'd probably like a BF BB2, given how light these cabs are, but they just don't appear to be coming up used and new ones are around £894 these days including a cover & P&P for the silver cloth version, which seems extravagant for a rehearsal / pub gig cab) => use the LNT for functions => put them together when the Wembley** gig eventually happens Any flaws in the thinking above? **that's the Jubilee Underground Station rather than the Stadium btw.

Broughton - High Pass Filter DI https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/high-pass-filter-di Available from May. The variable high pass filter ranges from 25 to 190 Hz with a slope of 12 dB/octave. Has an additional fixed filter is set at 25 Hz at 12 dB/octave to remove subsonic crud => so this effectively becomes a "Thumpinator Plus" pedal in what it delivers Not cheap at $170 in the US = £170 ish over here