Al Krow

@mcnach Be really interested to get your warts and all thoughts on how your GP 200 handles pitch shift to enable us to easily change key on covers material? One test for me of how good a multi is, is how well it handles this as it's not one that the Zoom B1-4 is brilliant at - and not as good as Helix Stomp on this one.

Haha I've been through 2 and now on my 3rd. Not too outrageous over 10 years? 😁 Take the point about reducing the aux send output - that's helpful. I can boost it at the receiver end to compensate.

Yes, the Zoom B1-4 does do a decent synth which I've used live. I'm almost not surprised to hear you say it does synth better than the Core and Stomp.

Thanks chaps. I'm using a pair of KZ ZS10Pro which should be perfectly fine, so more likely to be something in the signal chain - so I guess easiest solution is to cut the pre EQ gain and boost the fader volume to compensate.

On the subject of Xvives - used mine for the first time at a gig a week back. Generally good: excellent at individual sound check, but with the full band I felt that the bass was clipping / distorting through the IEMs. Bandmate suggested it was because both me and the singer had a wireless set-up (her's were not Xvive U4 but the more upmarket / bulkier LD MEI G2) and that, in general, wireless was less good at dealing with the top end treble / lowest end bass frequencies but that the treble would win over the bass. Does what he said make sense and is it something I'm just going to need to suck up?

Just seen that there's a baby brother to the GP-200 the GP-200 LT. It shares the same basic capability of the GP 200 but loses the expression pedal and half the stomp buttons to give it a more compact form factor which would be pedal board friendly if you wanted to combine it with other dedicated pedals e.g. a synth. @jimfist you were asking about the Nux MG-30 on the Zoom B2-4 thread as an alternative to the latter; I think this Valeton could give the Nux a very good run for its money and (sadly being the Zoom-fanboi that I am) is a more appealing multifx to me than the B2-4 to me. I'm impressed that it has a bit crush / ring mod sim on it, that's not a common feature on the more budget multis in my experience! It's double the screen size + drum machine + aux in + 3 more effects blocks + for half the price of the Stomp, but without parallel path options which the Stomp has... I think I'm starting to put myself in harm's way of getting one of these!

I think the fx patches are going to be identical to those on the cheaper models, and many will have no need for 6 flavours of DI out as they can go directly into the HiZ input on their desks. I do love the Z synth on the Zoom multis though! Puts many other more expensive multis to shame. And there are a ton of usable features and fx on even the cheapest Zoom multis. But if I'm forking out a lot more than I paid for my B1-4, I'd probably want to be getting parallel path routing for fx, and I think the entry point for that is something like the Helix Stomp. @JohnDaBass are you hearing a noticeable step up in sound quality between your B1-4s and your B6?

We've been trying to work out what they're doing differently - they're both (highly) trained and very experienced vocalists and it's not down to mic technique or awareness of speaker position. We've boiled it down to one having more powerful vocals which allows us to have a lower gain on the desk.

Hi Phil - thanks very much for that. So your point about compressors is only in relation to vocal or drum mics picking up sound on stage rather than e.g. a bass pedal board compressor, correct? How does DI'ing help with eliminating the impact of a compressor on a desk? Be delighted if you started an audio feedback thread! Not least as both our singers have similar Sennheiser wireless mics but one of them is able to wander into the audience in front of the FOH speakers without getting feedback, whereas the other much more often does get feedback issues. Having PA speakers with more headroom and being able to turn the gain down at the desk does seem to help, as the singer with the more powerful vocals manages to avoid feedback with most PA set-ups including our 310As, whereas the second has less feedback when using with the higher rated 912As. I'll take a read of that soundonsound article you've kindly linked.

+1^^ Look forward to hearing your thoughts on it @MarshallBTB. Not currently seeing enough of a benefit on this to switch up to this from my existing (and regularly available for £50 used) Zoom B1-4 which I'm still loving and using as a standalone pedal board & tuner for gigs, instead of paying a bit more and getting something like a Helix PodGo.

Bass is very clear in the mix on that one Paul, and particularly so as it's been recorded via an iPad internal mic rather than a dedicated recording mic. You'd mentioned you'd not got the bass set particularly high at the gig I went along to (my post above).

I at least ended up with a Soundcraft Sig 12 desk in the end, even if we didn't go for the Evox 8 - was probably sub-consciously influenced by your set up, haha! But agreed you'd probably find the Sig 10 model more than sufficient for your 3 piece.

@Paul S hope you don't mind me sharing this once more - couple of Evox 8 in action in a live and decently loud(!) rock set up.

Phil - that's a different angle on the use of compressors than I've previously heard articulated. Be interested if you could you elaborate for us please - was your point just in relation to vocals or also for other instruments including bass?

Because it means: (i) she has a PA available for her solo work (she will be keeping / storing the 732As); (ii) we have a spare rig when one of us unavailable; (iii) I don't have to lug a PA to every gig ie transportation load will be shared with the other main user of the PA, now that I'm using it as my bass rig. It's something we discussed and agreed a while back, and she's now sold her solo-work PA (which wasn't suitable for a full band) in anticipation. Don't worry, I won't be on to the "next thing" in any particular rush. I mean I was content with RCF 310As for the band for the best part of a decade...😄

When you say a problem with vocals was that with your Altos? I mean, I've not quite pushed the button, still shopping around for a decent price as I'm now waaaay over the budget I agreed with our singer, haha! But I'm guessing Russ would probably recommend me getting the 732As anyway given the 3" horns.

Worth dipping into this SY-200 thread.

I thought your EVOX 8 were going to be perfect for us - I loved how well they worked for your 3 piece! Would have avoided needing to go down the IEM route for stage monitoring, too. I got as far trying out some in a local store with a bandmate, but couldn't get passed the feedback we were getting in store and, given that was effectively my opp to demo the set-up to my sceptical bandmates who didn't believe there would be no feedback, the EVOX 8 ship sadly sailed on that morning...

I sadly can't comment on your white lines as I'm from the Frank Zappa school when it comes to that sort of gear 😅 On your serious point, I'm not convinced that our previous combination of RCF 702ASii + 310A tops was better than the current 912As - if anything the 912As win relatively easily. And @EBS_freak has always been horny about the 3" VC on the 732As - and the penny's starting to (finally!) drop on that and the benefit of a 700Hz crossover point. It's never been about perfection for us - you're talking to the guy whose function band were content with 310As for the best part of a decade; my Alto equivalent story haha! It's just about having something that's going to be good enough for our needs. But if the drummer now still wants to get a heavy/expensive sub and transport them to gigs, he's very welcome to...strangely I've a feeling he'll be fine not doing that! I started this thread almost a year back thinking about getting a pair of 312As. I guess in terms of compactness I've not varied too much from that precept. But as for being "budget", well yeah, you guys have been very persuasive on getting something better than I'd planned, haha! But it's BC and this is the way.

Says the owner of a pair of QSC K12.2s...😁

Currently just the one - a pair of 912As This second set of 732AS will be kept by our lead vox So if either of us are not around for a gig for whatever reason the band will still have a PA We actually had two sets of PA tops previously - my old 310As and our former drummer's cheap and cheerful Proel V15As. You'll appreciate that that the 912A & 732As represent a considerable upgrade on what we previously had, and we also took the opportunity to upgrade our drummer a while back. But that's a whole 'nother story 😄

Hmmm, there's quite a lot of hidden wisdom in that little post of yours! It's given me pause for thought and I've managed to dig out a fuller discussion from another older 2019 thread and key points from that seem to be as follows: Vocals really will sing with that 3"VC horn. While the RCF 712A is not bad, it's really worth spending the extra to go to the larger HF driver in the 732. The extended response of the larger HF driver in the 732 brings the crossover frequency down from the 712's 1,600 Hz to 700 Hz, which makes it a peach for vocal reproduction. Not to mention a 2dB increase in max SPL. Our singer has confirmed she's ok with going for a 12" rather than a 10" speaker in terms of portability, and given that she'll also be using the PA for solo vocal work, it seems like the 732A is actually a better option than the 912A we've got, and which can then become our #2 "spare" PA set-up. The relative quality of the two I guess is reflected in the price, with the 732A still being sold at a significant premium over the 912A. Should allow us to dispense with the need for a bass rig to support the PA or additional sub for the kick drum and thereby simplifying our set up. A lot of boxes ticked. Fingers crossed, this is going to be a treat!

We're heading down the IEM route for monitoring. But even without IEMs or a bass combo, I've found it not too hard to hear bass through the tops when standing near one (even from behind). Btw I very much take your point about best sound for the band etc. but I've come around to thinking it's also reasonable for bandmates who are primary users of a particular piece of gear to either own it outright or at least take some significant responsibility for it - so if the drummer is going to be the main user of the sub it seems fair enough for him to take it to gigs. Just as I wouldn't dream of asking another band mate to be responsible for any of my bass gear, even if there's an argument it's the audience that is the main beneficiary of that, too. And don't get me started about vocalists happy to turn up with just their mics and often asking someone else to bring a mic stand for them!