Al Krow

I think that's all spot on, Pete. Bass is what I describe (probably inaccurately, haha!) as a "subversive" instrument - the moment it's not there it will be missed. I mean if rock bands could work without a bass instrument (be it on bass or keys) then frankly it would already have happened. It hasn't for a very good reason and any great sounding pop / rock band will typically always have the core elements of drums, bass, guitar (and/or keys) and vox. Which is why I was making the point that I personally wouldn't say that any one or two core element(s) of the band are more important for the band's overall "sound" - they are all of equal importance IMO.

Now why have you got a tuner (given that Shure has that built in)? See what I didn't ask about? 😄

Funniest thing Pete, is that on this premier bass forum we are discussing which of vox, guitar and drums are key to a band's sound. And not one of us is jumping in to say that the bass should be included 😆

Here you go - me misbehaving, courtesy Boss WL-20s:

I've seen figures of 15m / 50 ft used on line and that feels about right in terms of upper range based on my own use. One thing I hadn't appreciated until recently is the impact of "natural audio latency" i.e. the latency arising from how long it takes sound to reach your ears from your cab. As Boss points out "the speed of sound is 343m/s. If you’re standing 1 metre away from your amp, the sound will take approximately 2.9 milliseconds to reach your ears. By comparison, BOSS wireless systems offer a class-leading, ultra-low latency of only 2.3ms." So using the Boss is equivalent to standing a further 0.8m away from your cab, which is not really a problem. However if you're also wandering off and standing 15m away, then the natural audio latency will now be 15 x 2.9ms = 43.5 ms, which is starting to get pretty significant. For comparison I use a short "slap back" delay setting at 90 ms. I guess the lesson for me that there is going to a trade off between being super-tight with the band and entertaining the crowd by wandering off into the audience!

@Gnermo - nice bass! Not too many 1000S between us methinks, so great to see one in use!

You're very welcome! Like @JohnDaBass I also have two B1-4s, one at the heart of my pedal board (below) and a second as a standalone fx pedal board / tuner / headphone amp / drum machine / looper for when I just want to travel light and slip a single pedal into my gig bag.

@uk_lefty if you check the opening post on this thread, I've provided a detailed comparison the Zoom B1-4 and MS-60B which hopefully deals with your query?

My guess is that it will work as well with a Ray active bass as it does with any other active bass (which in my experience and a few others on this thread seems to be just fine), but not ever having used my WL-20s with a Ray I can't give you certainty on that.

I've not opened mine up Lozz - but I can see a couple of screw ports. Is it not possible to replace the batteries on these?

I know plenty of very happy GLDX16 users and thought I'd give it a go as a "step up" from my Smooth-Hound which had done me proud for several years. However the Shure didn't seem to be doing too much more or better than the Smooth Hound, from what I could tell from my own live use. In particular they both use a transmission frequency range at 2.4 GHz which is in the peak zone for competitive wireless use (from what I understand) and that can be an issue when you have pro stage sound and lighting to compete with. Ended up with some Boss WL-20s (also at 2.4 GHz!) and loving the form factor and not needing to take up a chunk of my pedal board. And it's also a lot less £££ than the Shure. I think the key may to be find a wireless not using the the 2.4 GHz part of the spectrum?

Tech 21 VTDI will cover a lot of ground and is a hugely popular member of their pedal line up.

Ok let me rephrase: You originally stated "Like it or not, the most important things in any band are the vocals and drums." It's this emphasis I am querying / disagreeing with. Yeah sure, if the rest of the band is competent then, of course, you need vocals and drums to be decent. But surely it applies the other way around, too? My viewpoint is that e.g. a guitarist will very often play an equally important role to a band's sound which is not less important than the vocals and drums. I've no issue with us having a difference of opinion on this, I'm just expressing mine.

Hmmm not sure about that at all! Basically you're saying if vocalist or drums are crap, the band is. True. But that equally applies to the guitarist, in my experience. Happy to disagree with you on this one. I don't regard any of my bandmates as being more or less important to our sound. We all need to be getting it right.

I mean, certainly they are important and can't deny that both my covers bands are built around the vocalists. But IMO for a full band the guitar (and / or keys) and bass are just as important for filling out and providing a great overall sound. How often do we ever see just drums and vocals (ie pretty much never in my experience) vs just a guitar plus vocals (very common)?

Upsized my little HB 50M board to a Warwick Rockboard 3.2, powered by an HB Iso Pro 12 which comfortably slots underneath: Signal chains Main: Boss WL-20 (wireless) --> Thumpinator (hpf) --> Boss OC5 --> Boss SY200 (+exp. pedal) --> Octava (drive/fuzz) --> HG 4K (drive) --> Zoom B1-4 (multifx) --> 3Leaf Proton Mk4 --> VTDI --> 1/4" out / DI out; Side 1: Beat buddy --> aux in of Zoom B1-4 (=> drums unaffected by most of the fx including the B1-4's own fx); Side 2: VTDI parallel out (clean by-pass) --> Boss RC5.

Here's a couple I snaffled off my pedal board for you FM...

Thinking whether there's a secondary use whereby you take two bass outputs from the VTDI to the desk, one of the being the the parallel to give you a full clean bass tone to underpin a more driven 'effected' tone from the unit. Just wondering whether you have have come across folk doing this? I'm guessing the majority of us bass players simply rely on the blend knob in the unit itself.

We've successfully used a pair of RCF 310As for a 5 piece rock band, mostly with separate backline for bass. Very portable and excellent articulation.

But speaking of higher end Yamaha BBs, you've not yet linked this find of yours on here yet though?

Taking that one step further, does the unit effectively therefore have 3 outputs that can all be used simultaneously? i.e. 1/4" out , 1/4" parallel out and DI out? Albeit that the 1/4" parallel out is purely clean by-pass.

Reviving an old thread... I ended up a getting a HB Spaceship 50 which has been excellent for what I needed it for and great value, and subsequently moved on my Metro 24. Found myself wanting a bit more space recently and bought a Rockboard 4.2, but that was definitely a case of my aspirations for a pedal board being a lot bigger than my actual needs, so the 4.2 has been sitting mint and unused in the cupboard since I got it! However, the Rockboard 3.2 looks absolutely perfect size-wise for what I need and Thomann kindly delivered one to my door earlier today. Age old curse of starting a BC thread about a particular product and end up getting it!

My second pedal purchase off Ben and another very smooth transaction. Thanks!

I came across Scott (of Bass Lessons fame) saying he set himself a target of 3 hours of focussed bass practice a day when he wanted to become a pro. That seemed to be a very decent benchmark to me (and not one I've managed to do, yet, btw). There's a related point about the physicality of playing bass, which some have touched on in this thread. As someone who is no longer a spring chicken, just wondering if there's an age when our mind might be willing but our bodies say "be realistic, that's as good as you're going to get"?

I'd best post straight after the Trav then! (Who has indeed done Yamaha BBs, no question!!). I've "done" a much smaller sample of BBs than Andy: 425, 1025, 735A and P35. All great basses! I've not bought a bass in nearly a year now, a bit of a record for me since joining Basschat! Really happy with my current herd and my sole remaining BB, which is a 2005, which gets regularly gigged alongside my Elrick. Both are basses I'm delighted to have picked up used from fellow BCers as my two most recent purchases. Love them both.