Al Krow

That does look super interesting. But the date on the article (15 July 2021) is more than 12 months ago, so I think it's already been buried with nothing coming of it?

I guess it stems from different venues. Agreed in a pub if you could have a backline PA that would be a really neat set up with no need to faff around with monitors or IEMs. But in large auditorium venues the band likely wouldn't want to have the full venue volume blaring at them as backline on a regular basis?!

Thanks for that! My question was more around the position of the Evox 8 PA on the stage ie was it in a backline position, which avoids the need for stage monitoring, or in a more traditional FOH position? PaulS had his Evox8 set up as backline and managed to avoid feedback from the vocal mic. Just wondering if others have similarly done this?

Were you using the Evox 8 as backline or in standard FOH position? And same Q to @mikeycrikey please!

Ahh no real point, you will realise your folly soon enough and be reversing that transaction 😁 Now how ridiculously out of date are ATs current entries?!

Apologies if this has already been covered, but... Our two vocalists, but not the rest of the band, in my covers band are both looking to start using IEMs. Currently we have an Allen & Heath desk with one aux out and we can potentially make use of the headphone out from the desk also. We're not looking to get a new desk at this stage. Is there a decent quality and reasonable value for money option you would recommend that they get?

One of the things I particularly like about the Rockboards is that you can get something comparable or a little larger than a PT Metro 24, which I found to be pretty ideal in terms of width, and with similar robust build quality, but angled. This is then far less restrictive on putting a PSU underneath and needing to worry about clearance off the floor. The PT Classic Jr is more square in shape, which is a bit trickier I've found from an access perspective and the rest of the PT range just a bit too big for what I need. So I'm pretty happy to have stumbled on the Rockboard 3 series. (Just re-read my OP and it seems, back then, I was after a Metro 24 sized board but with decent clearance for a PSU underneath ...well my former self should be happy with the outcome then, haha!)

Still the best looking paint job I've yet seen!!

Haha - yes, but one of them (the 4.2) is sitting quietly in a cupboard for a time when I've completely lost the plot and decide I need to have something far too large for my abilities (or some London based BC'er decides he or she really needs it at which point they would be welcome to take it off my hands). @Naigewron - love the layout of those pedal boards! I went for the slightly wider 3.2 to accommodate a similar number of pedals but with space for an expression pedal too:

I think that's all spot on, Pete. Bass is what I describe (probably inaccurately, haha!) as a "subversive" instrument - the moment it's not there it will be missed. I mean if rock bands could work without a bass instrument (be it on bass or keys) then frankly it would already have happened. It hasn't for a very good reason and any great sounding pop / rock band will typically always have the core elements of drums, bass, guitar (and/or keys) and vox. Which is why I was making the point that I personally wouldn't say that any one or two core element(s) of the band are more important for the band's overall "sound" - they are all of equal importance IMO.

Now why have you got a tuner (given that Shure has that built in)? See what I didn't ask about? 😄

Funniest thing Pete, is that on this premier bass forum we are discussing which of vox, guitar and drums are key to a band's sound. And not one of us is jumping in to say that the bass should be included 😆

Here you go - me misbehaving, courtesy Boss WL-20s:

I've seen figures of 15m / 50 ft used on line and that feels about right in terms of upper range based on my own use. One thing I hadn't appreciated until recently is the impact of "natural audio latency" i.e. the latency arising from how long it takes sound to reach your ears from your cab. As Boss points out "the speed of sound is 343m/s. If you’re standing 1 metre away from your amp, the sound will take approximately 2.9 milliseconds to reach your ears. By comparison, BOSS wireless systems offer a class-leading, ultra-low latency of only 2.3ms." So using the Boss is equivalent to standing a further 0.8m away from your cab, which is not really a problem. However if you're also wandering off and standing 15m away, then the natural audio latency will now be 15 x 2.9ms = 43.5 ms, which is starting to get pretty significant. For comparison I use a short "slap back" delay setting at 90 ms. I guess the lesson for me that there is going to a trade off between being super-tight with the band and entertaining the crowd by wandering off into the audience!

@Gnermo - nice bass! Not too many 1000S between us methinks, so great to see one in use!

You're very welcome! Like @JohnDaBass I also have two B1-4s, one at the heart of my pedal board (below) and a second as a standalone fx pedal board / tuner / headphone amp / drum machine / looper for when I just want to travel light and slip a single pedal into my gig bag.

@uk_lefty if you check the opening post on this thread, I've provided a detailed comparison the Zoom B1-4 and MS-60B which hopefully deals with your query?

My guess is that it will work as well with a Ray active bass as it does with any other active bass (which in my experience and a few others on this thread seems to be just fine), but not ever having used my WL-20s with a Ray I can't give you certainty on that.

I've not opened mine up Lozz - but I can see a couple of screw ports. Is it not possible to replace the batteries on these?

I know plenty of very happy GLDX16 users and thought I'd give it a go as a "step up" from my Smooth-Hound which had done me proud for several years. However the Shure didn't seem to be doing too much more or better than the Smooth Hound, from what I could tell from my own live use. In particular they both use a transmission frequency range at 2.4 GHz which is in the peak zone for competitive wireless use (from what I understand) and that can be an issue when you have pro stage sound and lighting to compete with. Ended up with some Boss WL-20s (also at 2.4 GHz!) and loving the form factor and not needing to take up a chunk of my pedal board. And it's also a lot less £££ than the Shure. I think the key may to be find a wireless not using the the 2.4 GHz part of the spectrum?

Tech 21 VTDI will cover a lot of ground and is a hugely popular member of their pedal line up.

Ok let me rephrase: You originally stated "Like it or not, the most important things in any band are the vocals and drums." It's this emphasis I am querying / disagreeing with. Yeah sure, if the rest of the band is competent then, of course, you need vocals and drums to be decent. But surely it applies the other way around, too? My viewpoint is that e.g. a guitarist will very often play an equally important role to a band's sound which is not less important than the vocals and drums. I've no issue with us having a difference of opinion on this, I'm just expressing mine.

Hmmm not sure about that at all! Basically you're saying if vocalist or drums are crap, the band is. True. But that equally applies to the guitarist, in my experience. Happy to disagree with you on this one. I don't regard any of my bandmates as being more or less important to our sound. We all need to be getting it right.

I mean, certainly they are important and can't deny that both my covers bands are built around the vocalists. But IMO for a full band the guitar (and / or keys) and bass are just as important for filling out and providing a great overall sound. How often do we ever see just drums and vocals (ie pretty much never in my experience) vs just a guitar plus vocals (very common)?

Upsized my little HB 50M board to a Warwick Rockboard 3.2, powered by an HB Iso Pro 12 which comfortably slots underneath: Signal chains Main: Boss WL-20 (wireless) --> Thumpinator (hpf) --> Boss OC5 --> Boss SY200 (+exp. pedal) --> Octava (drive/fuzz) --> HG 4K (drive) --> Zoom B1-4 (multifx) --> 3Leaf Proton Mk4 --> VTDI --> 1/4" out / DI out; Side 1: Beat buddy --> aux in of Zoom B1-4 (=> drums unaffected by most of the fx including the B1-4's own fx); Side 2: VTDI parallel out (clean by-pass) --> Boss RC5.