Al Krow

Cheers Phil! For the portable rig ('cos drums and PA all in one car) the ambition is no backline.

Perhaps worth mentioning that if you're after a BIG sound rather than the portability compromise we're looking for, then whilst I like the sound we manage to produce with our gear as a band a lot, it's not in the same class as @bassfan's 24K crew's set up. Now that is a gloriously BIG sound!

I've actually recently sold my AS 702 ASII to the drummer of one of the bands I'm in; he's pairing with 15" Proel tops and finding that it's adding value to his PA set-up for kick drum. Drummer in my other band has just been going through our RCF 310As, but I'm sure the 702 ASII's would have added considerable heft there too, probably more so.

Yup totally agree, thanks Woody. Our main PA already has a RCF 702 ASII sub, so we're familiar and very much bought-into the benefits a sub can deliver. But for our back-up PA which the drummer will take along with his kit in a not massive car, compact, albeit combined with decent quality sound output, is the key concern for us here. Asking him to get a new car is not an option 😁 @Tubster are you not getting any feedback by having one PA speaker effectively as rear wall facing backline?

Seems to me that you fellas are both making the same really key point. Was worth starting this thread just to get this particular pearl of wisdom! So with just 2x12" PA speakers (and no sub) as the entire rig: - use one PA speaker, effectively as backline but rear facing; - the other front facing on a pole as normal; => get floor / wall sonic reinforcement => avoid feedback from mics due to rear facing PA speaker => bass and drummer get to hear the kick drum and bass much better

Yeah, but I'd hope there should be plenty of RMS wattage left over. I mean, a guitar should only need 30W of the 800W RMS a pair of 312As are capable of putting out, so it's essentially down to how much power is needed for the vocals and kick drum. But at the end of the day, if it's purely an RMS wattage issue we can go for higher powered units.

This is what confuses me: there's a massive "FRFR" thread where bass players swear by a single 12" PA speaker being perfectly adequate as their sole backline without a sub. So it would seem logical that that two 12" PA speakers of similar power and frequency response range should cover low end needs more than adequately?

Cheers Bill. Should RCF 312As cut it, based on their spec in your opinion / experience or are we realistically going to need to go north of that in terms of spend?

Yup, it does look like a really good piece of kit and very good value too.

Could you have boosted the bass output a touch with a preamp before the filter?

With pleasure - all recommendations gratefully received. May as well make the most of the trip given that I'll be forking out £12.50 on ULEZ and another £3,985 on fuel 😁

I guess my preference for powered speaker is that two powered speakers will typically take less space (the fella carting the spare PA has limited boot space) than two passive speakers plus a power amp. Plus the received wisdom is that the power units in active PAs are more optimally tuned for their speakers certainly when you're a little more into the mid-range price bracket, which I guess from HJ's comment the RCF 312As should more properly be placed.

Thanks @Happy Jack - some v useful pointers there. In terms of your initial questions: - why compact: we'd be looking to use these as standalone without a sub for use without any backline for bass. So my not taking a bass rig vs going from RCF 310As --> RCF 312As makes the set up much more compact; critically the RCF 310As can't really handle low end bass in a full band mix well enough for my liking; - why "budget": obviously what counts as budget is going to vary from band to band, but £700 new for 2 x RCF 312A is a lot less than the 2 x RCF 732A or 2 x QSC K12.2 alternatives which are often considered to be gold standard. They're also a lot less than an RCF Evox 8 system which I'm eyeing up for our main PA to replace the 310A set up having heard it in action with @Paul S's band and being very impressed by a "backline PA" system. Cheers for that - reassuring to hear. I suspect the next step is to audition some of the PA speakers with a 5 string bass up at PMT Romford in the next week or so.

I really enjoyed it and it's not going to be a one time listen for me. They're far better songsmiths than I'll ever be. And for me, it was many times better than last year's "blockbuster" release by someone who can't even turn up to gigs when paid £500k per gig. But maybe that's not actually setting the bar too high?

Well my own SY-200 has arrived. Liking it a lot so far. Interesting A/Bing with the FI. The FI has a broader and more versatile range of core tones and is more synthy in a superb way, that a lot of us are already familiar with. Some ability to tweak on the pedal itself e.g. dry / wet balance is particularly useful for me. The SY-200 has full ability to edit without recourse to a PC at all , several "usable" tones, flawless tracking / less glitchy than the FI, which for me means that, overall, the SY-200 will be my choice of synth pedal for live use. Part of the explanation for the SY-200's better tracking is that it is polyphonic which allows it to provide cleaner, sharper notes on fast bass lines (not uncommon in the synth bass lines we play) and, for me, is critical for a tight band mix vs a synth bass line that can be somewhat glitchy / "farty" on the FI and which negates the FI's otherwise obvious advantages in terms of core synth tones.

We're currently thinking about getting a spare compact budget PA which can also handle bass, without need for backline, which would make accessing certain venues a whole lot easier for us (and me in particular!). This would typically be used for pub rather than function gigs. RCFs have a very decent rep for quality and I'm thinking that a pair of RCF 312As without a sub could maybe do the trick as a band PA, that could handle bass without backline but also without breaking the bank? Grateful for any thoughts / experience on this?

Mods - grateful if you could remove, duplicate thread.

Surprised it wasn't uploaded on April 1st onto YT 😉

Yup at QC prices, you'd hope it could manage to do a half decent pitch shift!

Jim - I was finding pretty much the same with the B1-4 (which I'm guessing maybe worse if the B6 is a genuinely better sounding pedal): Zoom B1-4 & B3N - Effects patch ideas and tips - Page 11 - Effects - Basschat But I actually similarly preferred to use my cheap-as-chips B1-4 over a Digitech drop. What decent pitch shifters have you come across on your travels and which ones did you reject?

Full album out today:

My favourite Yamaha BB model! Too pricey for me to get this just as a "spare" though, although given how good they are and how rarely they come up, I can't say I'm not tempted!

18mm does feel pretty good! I guess there's a reason it's become standard. Old uncle Ken Smith certainly knew what he was doing and seemingly, from what you're saying, before mighty Yamaha Corp came along and took a leaf out of his play book!

Yeah I was tempted to get another Ibby SR - love the finish on the 1805 (my first Ibby was the 4 string 1800). "Fortunately" for my wallet, the one in the FS had sold by the time GAS had set in! I know you and I are both huge fans of the Ibby growl that their Nord pups deliver - I only moved my 1825 on as my Spector was delivering all that and a little more, but the Ibby has a lot going for it including being very light.

What make model bass was that Woody? Our Ibby SR Premium 5ers were 16.5mm and had a super comfortable neck - but I've kinda fallen into the 17.5mm/18mm string spacing with the rest, although 19mm on a 5er now feels a bit of a stretch. I was intrigued by the 15mm spacing on the BB 5000A comment, as no one had mentioned that before on this thread as far as I can remember. Did a bit of digging and apparently it was only the very early models (early 80s) that had the narrow neck and 15mm spacing before Yamaha switched back to their more standard wider neck.