Al Krow

It's a hybrid right with three valves in the pre? One of my fav amp configs, I'll have to admit. Where would you put the clean tone on the sterile/clean/warm/coloured spectrum?

Damn! I really was hoping someone wasn't going to say that. Mind elaborating?

Not got that far matey - was just getting the big picture together first, before drilling down to the detail. I suspect most folk who are "going FRFR" by using what is more commonly known as an active PA speaker (Lol - I mean why don't they just say they're going through a standalone powered PA speaker? I mean everyone understands what one of those is right? But I guess it would make it far too easy to understand and take away the mystique 😁) are using a pedal board of some sort?

You can tell her that if she doesn't like there are a queue waiting to take it off your hands and first dibs please 😁

@dave_bass5 Maybe it's BC terminology thing, but in my books, going through one FRFR speaker or going through two FRFR speakers, which happen to also being used the PA, is still "going FRFR". To quote @EBS_freak's helpful summary: "FRFR is a means of hearing your signal without any further influencing factors that will otherwise change your basses tone." Whether you do that through a single FRFR speaker or two PA speakers should not make any difference to what FRFR is; you are substituting a more coloured bass rig in either case.

Agreed!

Agreed - my IEM query was tied into the monitoring point and looking at the overall sound set up for bands that have gone FRFR. But the input from @lemmywinks and others has been v helpful and got me to what I was trying to bottom out - so I'm all sorted thanks!

Not sure I follow your logic here Jack? So you're saying replacing my BF rig with a single RCF 732A would be 'going FRFR', but going through two RCF 732As in the PA would not be?

Using the PA speakers for bass instead of my current bass rig.

Been a helpful couple of days working through this with you guys plus a couple of others via PM. I'm really looking at gig set-ups where we are providing the full sound set up - typically pubs and weddings. A. Current set up PA = 2 RCF 310As (vocals, acoustic guitar or sax) plus Alto TS308 monitor for vocalists Bass = BF BB2 + D class amp as backline Mixer = A&H ZEDFX-14 Advantages: good sound, decently light weight (115lbs / 52kgs), paid for(!) B. Putting bass through the PA without IEMs (& assuming the guitarist continues to play through his amp) Would require an upgrade of the PA to 2 RCF 732As to handle bass Could use the existing RCF 310As as floor monitors Keep existing mixer Advantages: more balanced sound with bass through FOH Disadvantage: this is actually a heavier set-up (138 lbs / 63kg); an RCF 310A will not match the quality of bass I get to hear from my current rig Overall no significant benefit - pretty much where I was back in 2017 at the start of this thread! C. Putting bass through the PA with IEMs Would require an upgrade of the PA to 2 RCF 732As Eliminate need for floor monitors Upgrade mixer to something like the Behringer XR18 and get the Behringer (active) P2 belt pack and KZ ZS10 IEMs (which seem both good value and good quality from the comments above - thank you) Would need to additionally mic up the toms as well as the kick drum This would deliver a more balanced FOH sound, potentially for no increase in weight. Conclusion: we've actually already got a surprisingly good-set up for what we do. From the above, there would be no real benefit in switching to FRFR 'in the round' without also adopting IEMs. However using IEMs could tip the balance. Band discussion to ensue - but my guess is that the "thanks for research AK, but if it ain't broke" viewpoint will likely prevail! 😄

Cheers Jack. I've probably expressed my question poorly, apologies. My focus here is really looking at monitoring arrangements for full rock bands who have gone FRFR for bass guitar. I suppose the question breaks down as follows, for bands using FRFR for bass: 1. If you're not using IEMs how many stage monitors are you using across the full band? 2. If you're using IEMs, what set-up do you have in terms of make / models of IEM/transmitter and mixer and how much did your set up cost? (I'm guessing there's maybe another dedicated thread where this info is readily already available?).

Cheers for confirming - what IEM set up do you guys have in terms of mixer and IEM units and, if you don't mind me asking, how much did that all come to?

Thanks Frank. I guess I should have qualified my question by asking how many stage monitors are typically being used by full rock bands who are not using IEMs?

I guess a related question is how many of you folk who have gone FRFR have gone the whole hog and adopted IEMs? If you're not using IEMs how many stage monitors are you using - in particular for full rock bands, which is what I would be dealing with.

We're currently using a not particularly sophisticated Allen & Heath Zed60-14fx mixer - but it has been super reliable and has done the job. This has an aux out with quite a lot of control as to what gets fed into that plus a headphone out. Would that work in terms of providing me with a monitor out and a separate one for the vocalists and allow me to dispense with my existing amp and cab as backline / monitoring and just go through the PA?

Completely agree - but then I think you and I have a similar "ear" on a number of sonic-bass matters! I do know that lots of other BCers love their M82s - so I guess it's kinda what @ped touched on on another thread: that what works with filters is often pretty personal in terms of individual playing styles. Having said all that, the Proton Mk4 I have I would rate as being "objectively" excellent! However, I think the SupaFunk may well give it a run for its money and I'd love to get a chance to A/B them in due course.

The Fwonkbeta is IMO right at the top of the tree of excellent filters in the sub £200 price bracket. Lots of folk also swear by their MXR M82s, which is another £40 less than the Fwonkbeta, but despite having had a stab at using one on a couple of occasions I always found it a little too brittle / harsh. This SupaFunk, however, seems to build on what the Fwonkbeta offers and then takes it up a level in terms of versatility, and it's priced to compete head to head. I've gotta sneaky suspicion that Solid Gold have a winner on their hands.

SolidGoldFx Supa Funk - creating a bit of a stir amongst filter and synth lovers! Currently £175 from Andertons - I'll definitely be looking out for a used one in due course!

The weight and neck dive should be less of an issue when seated, as you should be able to more comfortably support the neck with your fretting arm. (For me gigging a bass, that's obviously not an option). Interestingly a lot of the YT videos demonstrating Thumbs are of players seated!

In addition to the above (which very much echo my particular thoughts) is the weight. What folk find comfortable will obviously vary - with a really excellent strap, I'm good with 10 lbs as a top end comfortable weight but I've seen plenty of Thumbs come in at 10.5lbs to 11.5lbs which sadly is another deal breaker for me - shame because I love the Warwick growl!

You should just be aware that Warwick Thumbs have quite a rep for neck dive - even more in the 5 string versions with their broader slightly heavier necks. Definitely something that would bug me, but I appreciate it's not an issue for everyone.

Those would both be very good choices (I've got the AO 900). In which case you also get a freebie compressor thrown in with the v2, if you want to use, and the amps have hpfs built in as standard which is neat in terms of removing boominess. All in all a quality package in a good looking design.

The clean on a DG amp is very "clean" with excellent EQ versatility. And oodles of power in the 900 series. They do also include a DG dirt in the preamp (B3K + VMT or AO), which you might feel a bit of a waste though, if that is not your thing.

Aha thanks - just before Maude's sorcery with his pup reversal, which is probably why I didn't clock it (ya know no pics etc vs something sexy going on immediately below!). @andy67 - my bad, I was getting confused between Muzz's 414 (which is "un-souped", but looks great) and Maude's souped up 424X (and also looks great!) 😊

Your board is looking good! Agreed about the one-way scroll particularly for live work. However if you're using it for just 2 or 3 fx then no biggie as you can load those in order in blocks of 2 or 3 and then simply cycle through on the MS-60B You've obviously also got on the B1-4: - 50 vs 26 patches you can load up; - a much easier interface; - global EQ and vol; - drum machine and headphone-out / aux in for home practice; - 5 vs 4 fx per patch; - basic looper. But not sure how many of those additional features you'll particularly be wanting?