Al Krow

Thanks Mike, excellent post as ever. Could I ask whereabouts you're based and are you playing bass in a band or mainly focusing on the sound engineering side of things?

Yeah, thanks Dave, this is also a big point my mate has raised about how much the vocal mics are picking up. He's actually thinking about replacing the SM58s with an upgrade to see it might help address this.

Mike - lots of wisdom there, thanks! My mate's band has a silent stage set up with an electronic drum kit and I'm pretty sure that they are all using IEMs, rather than floor monitors, so your stage volume point won't apply in their case.

Getting back to the more mundane topic of compact desks... One of my mates has been struggling with the issue of getting feedback with his PA system: Alto TS310 tops and ELX200P subs, Zoom L12 desk and Shure SM58 mics, which is limiting the amount of FoH volume his set up is able to deliver. He's pretty much done everything recommended and nicely summarised in this excellent note, which I'd recommend to anyone encountering feedback issues: Preventing Microphone Feedback in a Live Sound PA The one thing he's not done on that list, that he and I have picked up is yet another capability on the A&H CQ series, is applying a noise gate to channels. I was thinking that it might make sense to apply a noise gate to all the mic channels (including the drum mics) plus the guitar, given pedal board hum, and maybe the bass too? Is this this something that other folk are doing as standard?

I mean it's just one of the best Xmas songs ever! Slade were huge in my youth and doubly so given they hail from Wolverhampton not too far from my childhood home. Besides how often do we get to play a classic rock song with such a cool walking bass line?!

Two great pieces of kit back into full use? Sounds like a win to me! 😊

Well I've held off making a decision until I had managed to properly road tested the bit of kit in question! but my own "best buy" for 2024 is going to have to be a new digital mixing desk, A&H CQ18T which I had the good fortune to pick up as B stock: Hopefully going to provide a significant upgrade to the band in terms of their gigging experience next year e.g. by allowing everyone to have personalised monitor feed.

We were using a new mixing desk on only its third live outing, and the desk upgrade had so far been great on its first two outings. However we initially came unstuck on Saturday night's gig as were using it for the first time with a keyboard, and found that it was only being fed to one of the FoH speakers via the desk. Turned out that the sole output from the (very budget!) keys used by our singer is a headphone out socket and she had a TRS --> TRS lead. However because it's a headphone out, it's therefore a TRS stereo signal, whereas the desk inputs are TRS balanced mono. Anyway we managed to figure out that splitting the stereo signal into two mono and using two of the desk inputs was the workaround, but it meant for a somewhat more stressful sound check than I had anticipated! I suspect that's going to be a relatively unusual set of circumstances as most keys should have more connectivity than just a headphone out socket? The gig turned out ok in the end, though! All's well that ends well, eh? 😊

Second one went a treat. Third one - we came unstuck as keys were only being fed to one of the FoH speakers via the desk. Turns out that the sole output from the budget keys used by our singer is a headphone out socket and she had a TRS --> TRS lead. However because it's a headphone out, it's therefore a TRS stereo signal, whereas the desk inputs are TRS balanced mono. Anyway we managed to figure out that splitting the stereo signal into two mono and using two of the desk inputs was the workaround, but it meant for a somewhat more stressful sound check than I had anticipated! I suspect that's going to be a relatively unusual set of circumstances as most keys should have more connectivity than just a headphone out socket? The gig turned out ok in the end though! 😊

Reviving an old thread - as my old HB adaptor has also just died and be good to get one with a UK plug. Replacement 12V AC Adaptor for Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO-Adapter 1-2-5 421958 | eBay This one looks pretty good value and has the correct centre negative polarity (unlike the one I found on Amazon claiming to be a HB ISO-Adapter and am returning!). I'll order one and report back if it doesn't work for any reason. Update: can confirm this works a treat, have ordered one more for the gig bag!

That's really helpful, thank @Happy Jack, so sounds like plenty of instances where a desk has had issues. We've never had an issue with our A&H desks over the years, or more recently with the Soundcraft MTK12. I did once get a cheaper Zoom L8 desk (my first short-lived foray into digital desks!) get knocked out during soundcheck by a power surge at the venue. Seemed to reset itself after about 30 mins, but was a bit of a shock to the system! (pun intended 😄)

Cheers Jack - I guess you've had decades of gigging experience too. Have you had any experience of PA kit and particularly desks failing during that time?

Have you ever had a piece of kit fail on you in that time Bill?

BC'ers have you come across a UK 3 pin version of the attached, that you've been happy with? Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO-Adapter 12V3A – Thomann United Kingdom I got a unit that I thought would work but no cigar and will be returning, so any recommendations gratefully received! @stewblack I'm hoping you might be our resident expert on HB related kit?!

What do folk do in terms of having back up provision at gigs? I'm guessing very few of us will take spare PA speakers to gigs on the basis that worst case you could probably manage with one and, besides, not sure how many of us have spare PA speakers knocking around or the space in our vehicles to transport them? What about mixing desks? Do many of the bands we're in have spare desks and do you religiously take one along in case your desk doesn't work at the gig? Or are you happy to rely on testing them before you head onto the road? What's our collective experience in terms of desks going on a gig night?

Thanks Phil - went very well and the pre-prep work put in on the A&H CQ18T seemed to pay a lot of dividends. Allocating two of the buttons to mute FoH and IEMs took away the stress of a lack of physical faders in the event of an unexpected volume spike. I took the old analogue desk to the gig as a back-up but it stayed in its case. I had set up the new desk with a basic mix based on what everyone had been saying they wanted in their IEMs when using our analogue desk i.e. a little boost to their vox & instruments to make them easily heard in the mix. Similarly the individual EQ settings on each of the channel strips was based on previous experience of what worked well. Loved the flexibility on little things that make this a relative joy to use e.g. being able to set frequency for each channel at which the HPF kicks in. No one asked for any changes to their personal mix on the night - the only request was to turn down the IEM volume at soundcheck - understandably so, as I'd based the vol settings on my home use and rather than us playing at gig volumes (albeit relatively modest gig volumes as it was a pub restaurant). Then able to save the new settings with the press of a button! The crew loved the benefit of having a personal tailored mix (rather than just two tailored and the rest getting FoH with the analogue desk). The clarity in all our IEMs seemed to be significantly better too. Those two things were very much the rationale for upgrading from a decent budget analogue desk to a well featured mid-range digital desk. The many additional capabilities of the desk compared to what we previously had, including the ability to adjust settings on the fly from the floor using a tablet, will be icing on the cake. @Pirellithecat hope that gives you an in idea of my initial impressions and I'm already feeling that this was the best bit of kit I've bought this year! Two more gigs, this time at Xmas parties, tonight and tomorrow to try this out with slightly differing line-ups for each. After which I'll likely not be feeling the need to take a back-up desk with me - although I'm guessing some of you guys would recommend doing that as good practice regardless?

Reckon it's taken about 10 hours solid for me to get to grips with the new A&H desk, including just now setting up the tablet for remote access to adjust settings on the fly from the floor. Does feel like quite a step up from our old trusty, but decently capable, analogue desk. I think I'm feeling sufficiently confident now to give the desk a first outing at a pub gig tomorrow night. Wish me luck, haha!

Came across this YT video, which was really helpful in terms of more detailed EQ settings for each channel strip, which I'd initially not managed to figure out from the manual: Allen & Heath CQ-18T - Learning From The Complete Channels

Fwiw, I don't think 1" is a particularly small sensor - I personally think it's pretty decent and good for low light/gig situations. Very few mobile phones have anything approaching that, and videocams with 1" sensors can easily cost >> £1k I also really like the fact that, unlike normal cameras, the video recording time isn't artificially limited to 20 to 30 mins but can capture a full 1 hr set without needing to be reset!

Thanks for that update, Dave. Excuse my ignorance but what does DR stand for? Do you have a link to the magnetic mount - sounds like a good accessory to have! Have you used it with the wireless mic, was thinking that may come in handy if the camera is being mounted on a PA pole?

How you getting on with your Osmo Pocket 3 Dave? Still preferring it to other kit for live music recording? I see these are available online for around £450 which seems to be a decent price for such a capable bit of kit!

Yeah mine were £13.50 apiece, all in, too. There used to be a £15 low value item exemption on imported goods, but that got scrapped a while back, I think?

Cheers - at £13.50 a pop including (including P&P and import taxes) and with a separately openable battery section, these Alt P2s seem to be a bit of a no brainer punt! I've just ordered a couple via Ali Express instead of the £27 (plus P&P) Behringer P2s

Is the point about the mono/stereo the ability to use a TS guitar lead vs a (more expensive) TRS cable e.g. if you are being fed from a aux out from the desk? Also is the casing on the tribute P2 as sturdy as the Behringer P2? The point about having a battery housing without needing to remove the entire casing just to replace batteries, is a good one. £28 for a pair of Tribute P2 vs literally double for the Behringer P2 (which were already feeling like a bargain at £27 plus P&P each) and for a better product seems like the ultimate no brainer!