Al Krow

Thanks very much for the recommendation Lozz. @gary mac has just fitted a new preamp to one of my basses and sorted out an earthing issue with the blend knob on another that was causing the bass to cut-out; all for a very reasonable price. Both basses now working well and it was lovely to meet Gary in person and have a catch up. Gary doesn't "push" his bass (and guitar) tech work on BC given his role as a moderator, so let me take the opportunity to do that on his behalf - I'll certainly be making use of his skills again as and when the need arises.

Thanks Phil for the whole post; your sentence above very much chimes with where me and the drummer are also landing (for some reason we've ended up being the techy members of the band!) and it will let me progress the cost/weight/benefit analysis of upgrading our relatively simple but actually pretty effective PA set-up. This has all been triggered by one of the vocalists wanting to use a wired IEM at our gig on Saturday night, and then me thinking "what if?..." You know how it is! I've got a sneaky suspicion, however that "if ain't broke..." will end up being the very sensible answer for us, but it's certainly been useful to kick the tyres with folk on this thread - many thanks all.

Phil, picking up on your last para, I'm guessing that the 310As are fine with your duo, but would probably struggle to provide decent bass for a 5 piece rock band? And that either our RCF powered sub or continuing to use my amp and BF cab would be required in such circumstances?

@Caz - worth checking this thread out - lots of really good recommendations.

Hah! Gonna be releasing your inner Peter Hook big time then...

Cheers Greg - seems like your last sentence is exactly where I'm at with my band: we've got a couple of 10" tops and a compact sub and I'm looking to see if I can drop the backline. Wireless would definitely be nicer than wired P2, but starts getting expensive - I've just been discussing a couple of options with another BCer who is well ahead of me on this one!

@Phil Starr thanks for taking the time to pen that detailed and yet another very helpful response! Really useful to have a bit of a route map that's been trodden by another band (and one that is also using the excellent 21 lbs active RCF 310As!). I think your and @bassman7755, @lemmywinksand several others' comments have convinced me that IEMs are the way forward. One of our vocalists is about to get a Behringer P2 to pair with his Shure SE215s, and the drummer and myself already have been using the SE 315s as passive ear plugs for gigs. So we've already started down that journey. I'd best make a bee line to one of the excellent IEM threads...

Exactly. And whether you're using a single powered PA wedge and/or making use of two powered PA tops in your PA is really neither here nor there. I think there are a few two many wedgies of a powered PA nature or otherwise going on 😁

It's a hybrid right with three valves in the pre? One of my fav amp configs, I'll have to admit. Where would you put the clean tone on the sterile/clean/warm/coloured spectrum?

Damn! I really was hoping someone wasn't going to say that. Mind elaborating?

Not got that far matey - was just getting the big picture together first, before drilling down to the detail. I suspect most folk who are "going FRFR" by using what is more commonly known as an active PA speaker (Lol - I mean why don't they just say they're going through a standalone powered PA speaker? I mean everyone understands what one of those is right? But I guess it would make it far too easy to understand and take away the mystique 😁) are using a pedal board of some sort?

You can tell her that if she doesn't like there are a queue waiting to take it off your hands and first dibs please 😁

@dave_bass5 Maybe it's BC terminology thing, but in my books, going through one FRFR speaker or going through two FRFR speakers, which happen to also being used the PA, is still "going FRFR". To quote @EBS_freak's helpful summary: "FRFR is a means of hearing your signal without any further influencing factors that will otherwise change your basses tone." Whether you do that through a single FRFR speaker or two PA speakers should not make any difference to what FRFR is; you are substituting a more coloured bass rig in either case.

Agreed!

Agreed - my IEM query was tied into the monitoring point and looking at the overall sound set up for bands that have gone FRFR. But the input from @lemmywinks and others has been v helpful and got me to what I was trying to bottom out - so I'm all sorted thanks!

Not sure I follow your logic here Jack? So you're saying replacing my BF rig with a single RCF 732A would be 'going FRFR', but going through two RCF 732As in the PA would not be?

Using the PA speakers for bass instead of my current bass rig.

Been a helpful couple of days working through this with you guys plus a couple of others via PM. I'm really looking at gig set-ups where we are providing the full sound set up - typically pubs and weddings. A. Current set up PA = 2 RCF 310As (vocals, acoustic guitar or sax) plus Alto TS308 monitor for vocalists Bass = BF BB2 + D class amp as backline Mixer = A&H ZEDFX-14 Advantages: good sound, decently light weight (115lbs / 52kgs), paid for(!) B. Putting bass through the PA without IEMs (& assuming the guitarist continues to play through his amp) Would require an upgrade of the PA to 2 RCF 732As to handle bass Could use the existing RCF 310As as floor monitors Keep existing mixer Advantages: more balanced sound with bass through FOH Disadvantage: this is actually a heavier set-up (138 lbs / 63kg); an RCF 310A will not match the quality of bass I get to hear from my current rig Overall no significant benefit - pretty much where I was back in 2017 at the start of this thread! C. Putting bass through the PA with IEMs Would require an upgrade of the PA to 2 RCF 732As Eliminate need for floor monitors Upgrade mixer to something like the Behringer XR18 and get the Behringer (active) P2 belt pack and KZ ZS10 IEMs (which seem both good value and good quality from the comments above - thank you) Would need to additionally mic up the toms as well as the kick drum This would deliver a more balanced FOH sound, potentially for no increase in weight. Conclusion: we've actually already got a surprisingly good-set up for what we do. From the above, there would be no real benefit in switching to FRFR 'in the round' without also adopting IEMs. However using IEMs could tip the balance. Band discussion to ensue - but my guess is that the "thanks for research AK, but if it ain't broke" viewpoint will likely prevail! 😄

Cheers Jack. I've probably expressed my question poorly, apologies. My focus here is really looking at monitoring arrangements for full rock bands who have gone FRFR for bass guitar. I suppose the question breaks down as follows, for bands using FRFR for bass: 1. If you're not using IEMs how many stage monitors are you using across the full band? 2. If you're using IEMs, what set-up do you have in terms of make / models of IEM/transmitter and mixer and how much did your set up cost? (I'm guessing there's maybe another dedicated thread where this info is readily already available?).

Cheers for confirming - what IEM set up do you guys have in terms of mixer and IEM units and, if you don't mind me asking, how much did that all come to?

Thanks Frank. I guess I should have qualified my question by asking how many stage monitors are typically being used by full rock bands who are not using IEMs?

I guess a related question is how many of you folk who have gone FRFR have gone the whole hog and adopted IEMs? If you're not using IEMs how many stage monitors are you using - in particular for full rock bands, which is what I would be dealing with.

We're currently using a not particularly sophisticated Allen & Heath Zed60-14fx mixer - but it has been super reliable and has done the job. This has an aux out with quite a lot of control as to what gets fed into that plus a headphone out. Would that work in terms of providing me with a monitor out and a separate one for the vocalists and allow me to dispense with my existing amp and cab as backline / monitoring and just go through the PA?

Completely agree - but then I think you and I have a similar "ear" on a number of sonic-bass matters! I do know that lots of other BCers love their M82s - so I guess it's kinda what @ped touched on on another thread: that what works with filters is often pretty personal in terms of individual playing styles. Having said all that, the Proton Mk4 I have I would rate as being "objectively" excellent! However, I think the SupaFunk may well give it a run for its money and I'd love to get a chance to A/B them in due course.

The Fwonkbeta is IMO right at the top of the tree of excellent filters in the sub £200 price bracket. Lots of folk also swear by their MXR M82s, which is another £40 less than the Fwonkbeta, but despite having had a stab at using one on a couple of occasions I always found it a little too brittle / harsh. This SupaFunk, however, seems to build on what the Fwonkbeta offers and then takes it up a level in terms of versatility, and it's priced to compete head to head. I've gotta sneaky suspicion that Solid Gold have a winner on their hands.