blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453405875' post='2959305'] He should have paid for the rehearsal. I used to co-run a band that had a brass section. We payed everyone a flat fee regardless of what the 'band' was paid from the client. One of the brass players got upset at a wedding gig saying they should be getting more for the wedding gig than the pub and party gigs. So after a lot of huffing and puffing and flouncing we agreed an equal split at ALL gigs. She was very unhappy when we gave her £20 at the next pub gig. She was effectively "paying to play" Soon after that she would only be 'available' for weddings and functions. You can't run a band when individuals are deciding when to play based on what they get paid on a gig by gig basis. Everyone needs to be available all the time and take the highs with the lows. [/quote] I think unequal splits are fine as soon as a band can break away from the $400.00-$500.00 bar gigs and into m the 2k and above arena. That $400.00 - $500.00 range, it's not enough money to quibble over. Blue

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1453285044' post='2958018'] I recently had to retire on health grounds so I've been thinking of maybe joining a covers or function band just for something to do, but I know I'd just not have the discipline to spend time listening to & learning songs I really don't like. I'd just find it stressful & miserable, which would translate into me being nervous when it came to auditioning for any bands. [/quote] I do this for a living and have never had the luxury of "I don't like this song or I don't like that song" When there's a song I don't fancy, I'm going to do something with the bass line to make that song fun for me to play. Works every time. Blue

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453399437' post='2959210'] Surely all bands were a startup band once, even your beloved Beatles? [/quote] If I ever run into a start up with that level of talent, I'd consider it. Don't get Me started on the caliber if originals bands in Milwaukee. Blue

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1453322195' post='2958498'] Our guy has no family, so doesn't really understand how precious time actually is for the rest of us, especially at a weekend. When your sacrificing that to drive 80 miles to play for £30 each, to an audience of 3 people, who'd rather you weren't there, it can be really demotivating as a musician I find.[/quote] Well, driving 80 miles for a $30.00 a man show is certainly a good example of a bad gig. Bad business too. Did you guys actually play a gig like that? Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453378857' post='2958878'] The answer is, of course, 'Yes', but I won't be coming to the US any time soon, since the 'security folks' stole my nail clippers at the airport, upon leaving Chicago. Funny ol' place. We give gladly; I also give away garden produce and jam that we make. I like making jam, but there's far too much made for us ever to consume in a year, so we give away to anyone that wants a jar or so. I also 'give away' my time helping folks with PC problems, and a young lad with no income needing a rear light on his scooter. I'd rather buy and fit him a rear light than have him knocked down for lack of visibility. Yes, it's daft to some, but we're not likely to change our ways, as it keeps us and others happy enough, whilst doing no harm. Life can be so simple at times. An aside benefit is that I don't have any worries about money or accountants, having nothing worth counting. Crazy..? Surely, but content to be so.[/quote] Well if I'm ever in your part of the UK and I need a band or if anyone I know needs a band were calling you. Fair and a good debate. However, me personally,I'm not seeing the connection between your comparisons and a band going out, traveling, performing, setting and tearing down for free. Providing those other services for free to those in need makes sense. Doing gigs for free, like you said, daft. Blue

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1453381389' post='2958924'] It would be nice to think that we (collectively) were being treated fairly though. I got stung with a wedding gig, where I got a decent enough fee, but then found out what the band got paid. Now I can understand the bandleader taking some extra, even an extra split, but this was more than that, AND we'd all contributed to the rehearsal room. [/quote] Another good example supporting this is a business. Blue

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1453368817' post='2958742'] Some of us are ONLY in it for creativity and art! [/quote] It's a business and it's about money just like everything else. Blue

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1453382373' post='2958944'] Its a fair challenge and one I sidestep by making a point not to play in bands with people who "need the money", not out of any sense of superiority but purely because it just isn't worth the tension that the differing motivations can cause. [/quote] That's fair. And I like a good debate. Me, I would never look at a local start up or originals band. Originals bands in Milwaukee only play charities and benefits or to family and friends for no pay. Start up bands are never together long enough to see their first gig. Blue

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1453118202' post='2956426'] I had an audition recently where I was 2nd of 2 bassists to be auditioned. We'd agreed for me to get there for 8PM, I left 30 mins before that and as I drove off got a text asking to make it 30 mins later, doh ! I got there for 8 anyway and hung around, getting cold in the poorly heated studio corridor. When my time came, I got setup, but my hands were freezing, and I very quickly got cramp whilst holding down some octaves for a whole song (Beatles - Taxman). I made a fair few fluffs, but overall considering the amount of time (not much) i'd put into songs I didn't know, it went OK. The next day they called me up to say they went with the other guy, as he was older than me (60s vs 30s) and he knew the material better (I had no issue with this bit). They did however have a reservation he wouldn't be committed, and asked me if i'd learn the setlist anyway just in case he didn't stay with them (!!!!). I was a little surprised by this request, would anyone else learn an entire bands setlist just in case you were 2nd choice in a few weeks or months ? I politely declined. I had a call yesterday saying he'd not got back to them about joining, so can I join instead ? I pondered on it, and decided to go with it. They might have been a little cheeky with their request and I may have been the 'backup', but they are actually very good and their location/frequency of gigs suits my needs. No point in cutting off my nose to spite my face etc. [/quote] I think you did the right thing. Commitment is key for a working band.It's why I always ask about spousel support and if they have young children. I'm proud to say after 5 years with my current band I've never asked them to block any dates for me. If something comes up, I cancel it, the gig comes first. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1453321423' post='2958490'] Just because I might not need it... My fee is my fee and I'll do with it as I see fit. Why I should give it to the guys who don't work is as lame as people expecting a certain fee because that is all you do. If they need more money...go earn it. If the gig pays the band members £150 ea after exes, are you going going to regulate that pro rata as per their daily salary..? Not in a million. [/quote] My comment was for those who brag about not needing the money as if somehow they are better than those of us that do need the money. For those who do brag about this I still say,prove it and put your money where you mouth is and either don't accept the money or like I said give to the guy in the band that does need the money. To be clear, as long as your not bragging I'm cool. Blue

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1453320874' post='2958482'] I've spent 15 years playing in boring clubs where I only did it for the money. Nowadays I'd happily play for a low fee as long as I enjoy it and I see people enjoying themselves to our music. Life is short so I want to play as many good gigs as possible.[/quote] I play clubs and bars for living, A gig is gig. I've never played a boring gig in my life. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453332592' post='2958623'] Good Deed doesn't hurt, unless one is really dependant on that money, in which case I'd question the wisdom of having chosen music as a career. Just sayin'.[/quote] Because it's how some people chose to live their lives. I play bass guitar and sing for a living now and I have never been happier, living the dream As they say. I only wish I had done this before I gave 28 years of my life working for the man, making someone else rich. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453332592' post='2958623'] This is one of the many benefits of playing for no fee at all. We (The Daub'z...) have free choice as to where and when we'll play, and only go out if it's going to be interesting for us. It could be a buddy's garden party (we've played some corkers...), a charity affair (so-so, can be good, can be a flop, for us...), local fêtes or whatever. We don't get any squabbles over share-outs. On the not-so-rare occasions where we get slipped an envelope despite our 'no fee' policy, we split it between those out of work in the band, or put it into a kitty for an end-of-year resto with all the families. I know this won't work for everyone, least of all on a regular basis, but an occasional Good Deed doesn't hurt, unless one is really dependant on that money, in which case I'd question the wisdom of having chosen music as a career. Just sayin'.[/quote] No offense but playing for free does not seem like a benefit to me. So your band gives away all of time and effort you've invested in learning a craft, travel expense, and providing sound and lights, tear down and set up? If yes,if I ever need a band I'm calling you. Blue

[quote name='roceci' timestamp='1453318526' post='2958441'] Never knew you were a bar band guy Blue Spot on tho with everything there, particularly having one person talk $$ & the fact that it's a business. [/quote] Thanks Yeah, I'm a 4 hour (two 10 minute break) bar/club guy. Bars and clubs are my bands core business. However, being based in "The City of Festivals" Milwaukee WI we get our share of good festival and fair business in the Summer months. Yeah it's a business, a label not popular with all bass chat members. I've never been in this for creativity or art. I have bills to pay. Blue

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1453301238' post='2958242'] I am, probably, one of the most anxious people you'd would likely meet...racked with self doubt. However, I have in the last 6 years of playing bass again turned up for numerous auditions where I knew no one in the room. In that time I've never failed an audition. The bands have never lasted very long, but I've never failed to get in.[/quote] This is kind of off topic, but Marvin's post got me thinking. This might be of value to a newer player looking at auditioning for his first band. I have been gigging since 1966. Don't audition until you know what your looking for in a band, especially if your want to gig and make money.And contrary to popular belief, there's nothing wrong with that. Don't audition if you don't have the auditioned material mastered. Your better off cancelling. And if you get to the audition and realize early on your dealing with amateurs, meaning guys that your light years ahead of musically and operationally. Politely bail out the audition. Marvin says, he's never failed to get into the bands he's auditioned for. However, none of the bands went anywhere. Seasoned veteran players know if a band is going anywhere. First of all if the band is any good they are already somewhere. Here's my point, decades ago when I was new to this,I also got in certain bands very easily. These have always been bands that never saw their first gig or dollar. Now established bands with a name and a history of good bookings that were out there making money when I've auditioned for those types of bands, I've never gotten in. When a band has something to offer ( money ) the proposition is completely different. Politics, friends auditioning, looks, age all sorts of other things come into play. Most of these bands are not going to let a newbie walk into a goldmine without some decent credentials. And us veterans know most of these top tier opportunities are never advertised publicly. Just like any other business guys, it's who you know. Please guys, the[i] "but I have a regular job, I don't need the money".[/i] That's not the point guys. If you don't need the money, give it to the band members that do.I would bet some of you do just that. Blue

I haven't read all the posts, however I will say this. I'm a bar band guy, my band plays 75-80 gigs a year including fairs and fests in the summer. Personally, i think $400.00 is the bottom line to get any decent band. I see a huge error here. Here's an example , if I get a call about a gig, he , my standard response is ; "You have to call Jim ( our guitarist), he handles bookings." You never want more than one band member talking to clients especially about fees. I would either back out of the gig or apologize for quote the guitarist gave and stick to the $400.00. Like I say guys, and I catch hell from some of you about this. "It's A Business" Blue

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1453245186' post='2957887'] I wouldn't call late 60s 'very young'. Quite a large proportion of the general population who are in their 80s/90s are in a pretty bad way. I'll happily die in my late 60s if it means I don't end up like my parents were in their 80s. [/quote] I get that, even with good genetics 80s & 90s are rough. Well, Chuck is still gigging and he's in his 90s. And I think Mick will keep doing for a few more years. Blue

I would ask how the songs are performed.Like, do you play it like the original artists recording and in that key. If you can't get a straight answer that's a red flag. It's really hard to know what a band is looking for in an audition. My feeling is most bands even when they're musically good, are not well versed in the audition process. They might not know they're looking for. Another thing a lot of theses guys don't even know a good bass player from bad. No matter how good an audition is you will rarely beat out the guy that's friend's with someone in the band. I always ask if they are auditioning any friends of the band. If yes, I won't audition. But I will follow up in a few months. The friend of the band usually never works out. More important like many have said, your also auditioning them. Do they have what your looking for in a band. Blue

If he's a veteran with relevant gigging experience and knows the genre it shouldn't take more than 2 months. I would be real careful about bringing in anyone with no real on stage experience. Blue

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1453122922' post='2956512'] I feel slightly torn between babying a bass and just enjoying playing and liking natural wear and tear. Even on older basses with plenty of marks I worry about marking them and I dare say even a factory worn bass I would be the same. On the other hand I do like seeing a well worn instrument. This makes me only look for certain basses that resist wear well or/and will look good when worn. Anyone else think like this?. I really just want to just own any bass and feel comfortable using them fully. [/quote] I purchased an *expensive German made Hofner Club bass last year. It became road worn after it's first gig. My belt buckle tore up the thin coat of varnish. Looks cool as he'll. Blue *Expensive for me.

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1453149196' post='2956920'] there's no way I would be in a band if I had to do 4 hour gigs.. Respect to you sir.[/quote] It's not for everyone. It balances out in the summer with festivals where you play 1.5 hours and for a lot more $$. To me, there's nothing cooler than playing for 1.5 hours,sound and lights provided and everyone in the band walks off with $500.00. Blue

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1453023388' post='2955507'] Played my very first jazz gig last night, with a trad jazz 7-piece. We did a fair few swing numbers that the client had requested beforehand, and I have played swing on a couple of big band shows, but never done a gig where the band was actually billed as a 'Jazz Band'. I am completely new to trad jazz as a genre. It was also the first reading gig where I used my iPad rather than paper sheet music. Well I can report that it went very well. Although I 'fell off' a few times, I got back on track quite quickly each time. Despite there being at least 3 deps in the band, it was pretty tight. I enjoyed it enough that I would do it again. Full disclosure: my lowest-paid gig in quite a while, but that's jazz for ya! Pics or it didn't happen - well here's the stage setup: [/quote] Nice looking little set up. Certainly better than standing in and inch of piss, like some of the places we play. Blue

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1453158165' post='2957060'] You can check out any time you like but you can never leave. There seems to be a spate of name deaths at this time every year. Sad times. But all these guys have burnt the candle at both ends.[/quote] And some of us never get it lit. Brilliant guy. RIP Desperado Blue

Another great has left us.He was only 67. RIP Glen Blue

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1453106551' post='2956292'] Unlike the Beatles, who, despite having explored lots at the urging of various fanbois, bore me to tears. Each to their own![/quote] I no longer make comments about The Beatles. I think those that are active on Bass Chat know where I stand. Blue