blue

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1443521741' post='2875428'] I don't think I've have played as much as I do if the financial side had been a concern ! ...but as I've said before, people make music for many different reasons [/quote] Agreed, we are all in different circumstances and are in this for different reasons. Interesting, I have never gigged more in my life since I started playing for money and this became a job, a fun job. And my chops have never been better. For the rest of the year were booked for double header weekends ,meaning were booked either Fri & Sat or Sat & Sun. This is what I always wanted out of a band experience and why I make music. Blue

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1443517409' post='2875364'] Well, this is where we differ - my only reason for making music is to create good music and enjoy playing it, the financial side has always been a fairly minor consideration. In this case, finding people with a similar musical directions is important. But as I said in my earlier post in this thread, it's an outlook that not all on this forum share...no bother.... Each to their own, I say ! [/quote] For me those 2 elements go hand in hand. I love creating good music and presenting the music at gigs. Getting financially compensated for performing is equally important to me. Blue

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1443482331' post='2875221'] tricky one, is it a hobby or a living? personally I think I'm happier keeping it as an enjoyable hobby, so, back to the original question, "why do guys give up?", the answer is always because they stop enjoying it [/quote] Then I might ask, what happened, why is it no longer enjoyable? Blue

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1443479867' post='2875198'] But where is the passion ? [/quote] I'm passionate about playing live to an audience and I'm also very passionate about being financially compensated for my work. Blue

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1443453227' post='2874814'] Drink less beer ? Seriously though, try practicing standing up, but with a mirror in front of you. [/quote] Agreed, It's something I learned a long time ago. Invest some stand up time into your practice routine. It's much harder to play standing up than sitting down. Blue

It's like anything else. Finding strong gigging opportunities where a guy can make good money with a good team, a band with upper level talent and a proven business model are few and far in between whether your in the UK or the States. Blue

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1443471818' post='2875096'] It's odd, then I was younger (I'm talking well into my thirties) I found it easy to find people with similar tastes in music...now, I find it harder and harder. [/quote] Most guys I know, including myself, you get to a point where our taste in music is no longer relevant. Since I do this for a living, everything is about good people, bands with consistent financially lucrative bookings. If I had waited for bands that play music in line with my personal tastes I'm sure it would have no commercial value and wouldn't generate much money. Blue

Some of these reformed bands are actually presenting those old catalogs better than the originals did back in the 60s and 70s. Blue

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1443011157' post='2871407'] Please God ... why, Why WHY??? [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34323112"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...t-arts-34323112[/url] [/quote] I haven't read all of the posts here. But in the States, sometime all that is left is the name of the band. And that name still has value. Many times the name has been left to family members and they have the right to use that name. You may see a band and it's the children of the original members, or maybe 1 original and a bunch of new guys. So, the reason many reform is simply money. Somebody has something of value, your going to find a way to cash in. Blue

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1443010797' post='2871404'] The Rugby World Cup has pushed our start time back to 11 pm this Saturday. Finish at 2!! [/quote] No pushing the time back over here. In the States, particularly Wisconsin, there have been bars that have in error booked us when the Green Bay Packers have a game. In the case of a 7:00pm game we will call, talk to the owner, cancel and reschedule. The owners completely understand and apologize for their booking error. No band can compete with a Packers game in these parts. Blue

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1443108337' post='2872291'] Hmm, maybe because their partners insist on making their life so awkward and make it so difficult for them to earn money because they can't seem to accept that it is a 'real' job. [/quote] It's why I stay out of traditional relationships. Not many American women will tolerate being number 2 in a guys life. And that's exactly what they would have to be with me, number 2. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1443009585' post='2871374'] No..exactly the opposite, IME. The band IS the draw. Designed to sell beer and alcohol. It is not exactly a show as you have a break between sets but 1x45 and 1x60 including encores is the norm around here. You are booked at a fee to do 2x45mins. There might be variations and late starts at some places but for pub money no one does late nights, IMO.. and you start 21:00-21:30 and look to finish at 23:30-23:45. Pubs may traditionally be in amongst residential so respect is due with regards to neighbours. In- town gigs might be able to go later..but you'll bill them for that as well. [/quote] All the bars and clubs we play are in business zones, we are never anywhere near residential zoned areas. So those pub hours now make sense. Blue

Having to throw in the towel happens for many reasons, some understandable some not. Throwing in the towel,I guess you can adapt and learn to live with it. But losing your Rock & Roll spirit, nobody should lose that. Blue

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1443029062' post='2871673'] Could be worse, the could have just kept flogging a dead horse all these years [attachment=201377:rolling stones.jpg] [/quote] Been going to Stones shows since 1972, saw them in June in Milwaukee this year. The Stones are still some entertaining MOFOs. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442958903' post='2871017'] Depends on the pub! Virtually all the pub gigs that I play are where people come especially to see the band... Funnily enough, I think that two hours is quite a long time for an audience to engage with and watch a performance by a band, unless of course they have loads of their albums! I would think that playing for four hours is more likely to make an audience treat the band as background music? [/quote] Hi Pete, No, not at all and this is where there might be a cultural difference. Not many stay for the whole 4 hours. The club will stay packed ok, but we get different crowds. The crowd were playing to at midnight is a different group of punters than those that were there at 9:00. When we play at Kim's we know a whole new crowd, probably coming from another bar will show up around midnight. This is something the band has to pay close attention to, because there's material you will want to save, the stuff you know will be better suited for that late crowd. They usually have been drinking longer, so we save most of our dance material for them. Bar bands really have to have 4 hours worth of good stuff. We probably have over a hundred songs, so you pick and chose depending on the crowd. Like most bands we save our best show stoppers to close with. You might have seen our version of Nancy Sinatra's [i]"Boots Are Made for Walking" [/i]If you haven't I'll post it. Old Clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owoulj3y-vY Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442957450' post='2870999'] I'm guessing pub gigs might be closer to coffee shop gigs. [/quote] I just don't get the only playing for 2 hours. That's just about when I'm getting warmed up. I think I'll make the point that many of the bars we play are more like real music venues. Were playing a bar called Kim"s Lakeside. Really small place. People come there specifically to hear live bands. Are bands more of an after thought or like background music at pubs? Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442945918' post='2870880'] Ok. From earlier where you said $100 a man minimum. But I see you're doing 3gigs a week and some gigs playing $500. That's professional level gigging. Certainly not pub band territory. As we noted earlier over here you'd be a working mans club / party / function band. The working men's clubs are close to 3+ hours. That's not entry level startup band territory. Although if you have musicians who've played in bands before, like JTUK says, it could be a band put together. But then you'd be using people who haven't given up. Strange thread. [/quote] The main difference is the fair & festival business we have during The summer in addition to bar gigs. From what I'm reading, playing pub gigs is really different than a bar gigs. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442937248' post='2870766'] So there you have it. 9 years of work to earn £60 a week. Well worth it. [/quote] Where did you get that figure from? LOL I'm not rich but 60.00 a week is not even close to what I make. Again, it's not a lot, I think it's a round 12K a year.Which I believe is well over the top range for bar bands. And remember we paid at a much higher rate during festival and fair season. Keep in mind I'm retired and single so the claims I can make would be tough for those still in their prime working years For me, definitely worth it. If you asked me to swap it for a 60k corporate office job I'd say, " I'll pass ". Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442906876' post='2870313'] I read an interview with Leland Sklar last night where he said that he still gets excited when gets a call for a live gig, 'even in a bar'! So after playing some of the biggest gigs in the business, Sklar still looks forward to a local bar gig! [/quote] Very cool, I've had the opportunity to see a few big stars playing in bars. I love it. Me, when my phone chimes for email and the heading is "New Gig", I'm in heaven. BTW, Leland is from my neck of the woods, Milwaukee WI. Blue

[quote name='Mickeyboro' timestamp='1442925505' post='2870568'] Have just nosed round a couple in Tokyo and Kyoto on my first visit. Couple of impressions. The Japanese made Fenders seemed bargains at £300-350, inc Aerodynes. US Fenders, understandably, about four times as much. Large numbers of 'Lakland Japan Skylines'. And some good looking PB n JB copies called Photo Finish (or something like it) at around £75 apiece. Shame my case is full... [/quote] I would never play a MIM Fender, however I own two MIJ Fender P basses and I think they are tops. Out of all my basses I gig with, I use my MIJ Fenders the most. Right now my favorite is my 1951, P re-issue. I bought them both used, $500.00 a piece with cases. Blue

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1442933773' post='2870694'] I've been playing music since I was a kid. Took up bass when I was 13 & played in quite a few bands. The last good band I was in was fun & had really good musicians. Unfortunately the singer took a stroke, the drummer moved abroad & I never see the other guys. That was a good few years back. I tried to get a band up here in Perth, but found it very hard to get any actual musicians. Plenty folk who play metal on a guitar or sing at the karaoke wanting to join, but none who actually know much about music, being in a band or able to play at a decent level. I stopped last year. I'd already quite trying to get a band that could gig a few months before I decided to give up being a bassist. I'm still a musician, but everything I do is at home & for the past few months, it's just been using computer instruments. Funnily enough, a chap at work has asked if I want to play bass in a band he is starting that is just for fun & probably not to gig. We're gonna give it a blast next week. I've no gear apart from my bass (sold the lot, most on here), but the rooms are plug n play. [/quote] A few here no a little about my history. For me that would not work, gigs are what makes it fun for me. No gigs, to me means no fun. A good example of how tough it is for folks that live in areas where good musicians that understand the local band business are almost impossible to find. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442933553' post='2870690'] Well of course but you asked why people give up. If you have to make 20calls to one person just to get one gig. To fill your diary you'll have to make 1000 calls to the successful gigs and that quickly escalates when you start counting calls to venues where you don't get gigs. I'm with JTUK. You select a decent local pub that does music well and has a good landlord and you target it. The nights you play, you make sure all your friends come. Yet again success in life is about how many friends you make. Friends bring friends and they come back within more friends if you're good. . From there the function gigs should start rolling in. I'm not sure there's a lot of mileage just doing pub gigs in the UK unless you only want to play occasionally in a hobby band. Which is kind of making the thread a bit circular again. . [/quote] Well, I think we have established the bar band business in the states is more lucrative than the pub band business in the States. I think you really have to understand that none of this happens over night. Another thing if you truly don't treat your band like a job and run it like a business your traveling down a rough road. It takes time for a business to grow and your brand to get known. While my band's bread and butter is with repeat or existing business it took 9 years for our phones to start ringing than the other way around. A lot of people wouldn't put 9 years into a bar band. In our case it paid off. Blue

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442930712' post='2870650'] I live on the outskirts of London, but even so finding good bands is not easy, even here. It must be disheartening to only find guys you don't want to play with. [/quote] Where you live, your network and how much you are willing to put into finding the right band are all factors in attaining a positive band experience. I have a buddy that complains all the time about the lack of opportunity and he has a point. However, when I ask him who he has followed up with or how many auditions he has done, his answer is always nobody and none. Blue

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1442930467' post='2870648'] I gave up because bass was taking up everything & was becoming an obsession. All I could focus on was what to do with bass & it was becoming too much of an idol. Something that tipped it as well was that I was getting frustrated at inadequate musicians. Trying to get a band that could play in time & not want to cover crap songs was hard work! [/quote] Those are issues we all have to deal with at some level. When did you get in the game and how long were you in it before everything tipped? BTW, I think trying to start a band is only for a select few. Me, I'm a bass guitar player not a band leader. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442927081' post='2870599'] I'm kind of all for that, tbh... If you can't 'force' your way in... you possible have to look at yourselves and ask why..? I don't really believe any LL would turn down the best bands..and you can measure that in 2 ways. You are the best musically and/or you are the best from a draw POV. But if they did, I'd be thinking that isn't the sort of LL/venue you should be playing anyway... assuming you fit the criteria. In reality, there are only about 4-5 'best bands' anyway... so the LL can't hang out for best-best.. [/quote] The best band to a bar owner over here is the band that's playing when not only is the bar packed but the punters are buying alcohol at a premium rate all night. Blue