blue

[quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1420968968' post='2655481'] So I buy myself a new ZoomB1Xon as an after xmas pressie to myself and it was its first run out last night. We had time for a sound check so I wandered out with the singer to have a listen. Totally underwhelmed by the sound I had set up I had a fiddle with the amp setting and to be honest it didn't sound much better! Still, it was a good gig and we got a great response. So at the end I'm packing up and I see my problem. I run a TC BH500 into a TC 2x10 and a Barefaced Compact, usually a monster awesome set up which tonight sounded all midrangy and had to be cranked so much it seemed to be distorted..........I'd not plugged the bloody Compact in!!! Doh.....so the TC is sitting on top in all its midrange glory with no decent bottom end at all and the Compact was just a bloody expensive speaker stand!! And actually the TC on its own sitting on the floor is always a decent sound but sat up high it was pants. Oh well lesson learned, I've only been playing for about 40 years!!! [/quote] IMHO, bass effects for live performance is still a pedals game. Multi Effects units are fine for rehearsing at home and maybe for bedroom recordings but not on stage. I would also stay away from Zoom. Just my opinion. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420972263' post='2655536'] Wouldn't work for a pub band here... you need to keep them there all evening to be able to justify your fee and gig. We have a strong finish and the reason why we have a choice of 5-6 closers is because we will encore 2 or 3. But then again, we tend to have a 2x45 slot so we have to cram everything into 22 or so songs, .. [/quote] Completely different here. First of all it's 4 hours with two 15 minute breaks. Most good bar bands will have a gang busters crowd and lots of alcohol sold in the first 3 sets. No bar owners over here expect a band to keep a huge crowd for 4 hours. Blue

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1420965437' post='2655435'] Different here, Blue. Unless you're a really awful band, closing time is when they are baying for it the most. RRO's closers: Whole Lotta Rosie, and if needed, Freebird, if not done already. [/quote] Yeah, definitely different over here, at 1-1:30 in the morning even the best bar bands won't have much of a crowd. Why waste your best stuff on a couple of drunks.Headliners that are delivering a a pro level 80 minute show and have a legit encore are the ones that put a lot of thought into that closing song. You guys in the UK your pub show is a completely different game than out USA bar band show. Blue

Back to "How To Be In A Band" for newbies going out and seeing bands would be crucial a necessary part of the education curve. At least for my generation it was. However, for younger bands that don't gig and are not a part of the gigging culture, going out to see bands would not be that important. Blue

Depends on what kind of band this is, The only thing that would make me quit a band would be no gigs and no money. Blue

[quote name='AndyBob09' timestamp='1420938032' post='2655380'] Get out. Do something you enjoy. I have just taken a huge pay cut. I cut my ties with my wedding band (£20,000 per year. 90% Weekends 100% past 6.30pm. 90% within a half hours drive. Part time job. Full time wage) and now play on cruise ships for around £12,000 per year. I effin' love ships. I love the travel. I love the working 7 nights a week. I love the people I work with. I love the drinking after gigs. I love that no gig is more than 5 minutes from where I live. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that I never need to set up or pack down because that is literally someone else's job. I understand that you're not in it for the money, but do something you enjoy with your bass. I was starting to hate most aspects of my wedding band. I also know that when I'm done with ships, I'll be a far better player and that there'll still be wedding bands around to join for the cash, should I have to. [/quote] Great story and a good example of a guy that has the right gig and is in the right band. I would bet he made his choices carefully. I think guys that decide to quit have other skills, interests and talents. They also probably ended up in a band where they didn't put the needed thought into before taking the gig and IMHO the love for the game was never really there. The only reason I can understand getting out for would be when health issues stop a guy from gigging which stinks. Blue

[quote name='dadofsix' timestamp='1420943857' post='2655400'] I guess, bottom line, is that folks of our generation are, ultimately, survivors. We've seen the good times and the bad times. We've experienced loss and survived. We've made mistakes but learned. Yes, the clock is clicking away on our lives in a very annoying way, but, by and large, we're still more interested in the groove we're setting with the drummer onstage. Music is more than a thing, or something to do. Rather, it is an ever more important component of our own self expression and allows us tell the world: "World, I am here. This sound, this music, is coming from me! And I am . . . satisfied." <><Peace [/quote] Awesome perspective! For me it's what I am. Example, if I ever made the news for any reason, I want the first line to read; [i]Blue, 61 year old male, bass guitarist for the rock band Road Trip was hospitalized for chest pains"[/i] Not, [i]"Blue 61 year old male Case Manager for Western Mutual Insurance was hospitalized for chest pains".[/i] There a lot of guys here that don't have much of a connection with or love of gigging. These guys have lives, families, other interests and talent. Playing bass in a Rock Band is the only thing I've ever known how to do ( and proud of it, I might ad). After 50 years It's still the only thing I have any interest in. A bass guitar is not something I pick up a few times a week and muddle around with. It's way of life and who I am. It's why it's hard for me to understand some of you that say things like [i]"I don't know if I want to play anymore"[/i] For us survivors that wouldn't be an option or anything that would ever cross our minds. Blue

Depends on what kind of band you are, national or regional signed headliner or local functions band? To be honest I think well thought out closers are more for headliners ( the big guys ). At the local level it really doesn't matter, your lucky if you have a few people left during your last set which is around 1:00AM over here. You certainly don't want to save your best stuff to play to a half empty room. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420888340' post='2654542'] The bands that can get £500 in a pub situation aren't THAT common... most pubs bands just can't do that.. but it really is dependent on their drawing power. [/quote] Thanks, that would be my band, were not a functions band. We are a bar band $500.00 for a 4 hour show with lights and sound. That's a bargain. We have been together and gigging for 9 years. We diplomatically turn down those $350.00 and $400.00 gigs. We do not play benefits or charity events for several good reasons. For a corporate agency represented band $500.00 wouldn't come close to covering a contract for lights and sound. Blue No gig tonight, going to see Sena at Shank Hall ( small bar ). Bands support us and come to our shows, I support them and go to their shows. Ever see these guys that complain about poor turn out at their shows but refuse to spend a nickel too see and support other bands? [url="http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/"]http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4[/url]

If the pub band is gigging consistently and making money they will need a business strategy and model if they want to continue gigging consistently and making money. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420841544' post='2654248'] The other thing is that bands tend to set the agenda and providing they don't stray too far off it, they'll get work. It may only be in pubs as they are more tolerant but that may be all they want anyway. Other bands may well use pubs as a launch-pad to ticketed events which will pay more. If you can get a pub large enough to sell 100 tickets then that can put the band fee upto over £500 per night which means the band keeps that figure and the pub is happy as it makes a killing on the drinks.. But again, this is a feature and the band will be the draw. They may well have/need a slightly more pro show as well... Function work is dictated ..largely ..by what the client wants, ( they want a soul band, they get a soul band ) whereas pub work is more buy what we are selling, music-wise...typically. People will go to their local music pub on the basis of who is playing and stay away if they don't rate them. Pass-by trade bars don't tend to do that well musically, unless the band playing is the draw. This is how is works around here, anyway. Pubs are specialist music venues or strive to be. [/quote] Wow! it is really different. The top of the bar scale for 4 hours over here is $500.00 at least in Milwaukee. Bar bands over here can be alll over the place. And over here, cover at the door at the door or selling tickets is frowned upon by most bar bands. We will not play anywhere that charges a cover for the band.Charge at the door usually means small crowd. Even if a band has a decent draw, pay at the door still does not fit the business model of most bar bands. Selling tickets and paying $5.00 to get into the back room where the band plays is strictly for our originals bands. Blue Here's an example, I have seen Greg play places where there's a cover and the place will be empty. Most of you will get my point if you watch the clip, that being good is not enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrVWYFHg6N8

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420800918' post='2653499'] I assume this is because your gigs are 4 sets long then you have to be all things to all men .. Pub bands here tend to be a feature and therefore the band will have a theme. They will be blues, or metal or ...but they wont stretch too far off those genres. That is why you only want to hear them for 90 mins max..and they'll mostly only be able to handle one style anyway. Having said that, they are some very good one trickers around, A band that plays more than 90 mins (2x45) tends to be a function band and they don't cross over into pubs too well...in that they'd have a function set and pub set...generally. [/quote] Yeah we play 4 hour shows and we still can't fit all our material in. Interesting I was thinking a [i]"pub band"[/i] was the sames as what we call [i]"bar/club bands"[/i]. Now it's apparent they're not the same at all. All this comes back to understanding what you want out of a [i]"band experience"[/i] If you don't know what you want, you won't know how to pick a band that's a match for you. Knowing what you want and whats realistic and feasible can be challenging. Blue

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1420833255' post='2654108'] I've just looked at my (almost fully booked) gig list for 2015, and I'm saying to myself " oh no not that gig again and i hate that effing place or bloody hell ive gotta drive all the way to St Albans again" If I'm thinking like this is it time to call it a day?, I get on really well with the rest of the band but i just dread the gigs, setting up, packing away and driving to and from. I may have the chance of joining an originals band from the 70s who gig once every couple of months on average, proper gigs as well not rough dingy pubs , most of you will probably tell me to make my own mind up but i thought I'd share this anyway and maybe get some of your thoughts. Cheers. Edit I've been with them for 7 years, before that i was in a tribute band for 10 years playing a hell of a lot of gigs and some really gruelling tours. [/quote] Definitely call is a day. There are guys going crazy trying to find a band that works and has gigs. There are a lot of us that are far beyond not liking venues, absolutely love gigging, setting up and tearing down and driving. This is an opportunity a lot of guys would love. Give your notice fast. Hopefully someone that's into it will win this opportunity Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420715165' post='2652391'] Be honest with yourself about what you want. Be honest with the other members about what you want.[/quote] This is crucial, and if not being in a band or a band that doesn't gig is the type of band you want, don't be pressured to be in a band or gig. You won't have as much fun, but you will be happy. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420756571' post='2653224'] I suppose I like to listen to and play a range of genres. I'm using limiting in the sense of playing in a pub rock band means that I play pub rock. In a jazz trio I play jazz. I can't see these two crossing over. [/quote] I'm a Rock & Roll guy, what do I know other than how to have fun. I'm not sure what [i]"pub rock"[/i] is. We play everything from Peter Green to Dusty Springfield and Robin Trower to Nancy Sinatra. Plenty of variety and certainly not limiting for me. My position remains, I like to listen to and play a range of genres too. However, I don't think you have to be in 2 bands to do it. Don't get me wrong, some of you guys like being in multiple projects, nothing wrong with diversity. Just not for me. [i]"One Band, The Right Band"[/i] Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420754109' post='2653171'] How often do you change bands then? Are you content with only one vehicle for your musical outlet? I'd feel very claustrophobic limiting myself to playing with the same people all the time. I played in one band for fifteen years, while playing in other side projects along the way. I don't think I could or should have left that band because I wanted to play in another band short term. [/quote] You know, after 50 years of doing this, words like limiting, creativity rarely come into my mind. I'm always expanding and being creative I can do that even while playing with the same people. While it's only 4 strings and 22 frets there will always be new stuff to learn. It's Rock & Roll it's fun it will always be fun.It could never be limiting for me. I have not changed bands in over 3 years and have no interests in side projects ( keep in mind everybody has a price tag, me included ) I'm lucky to be in a band with consistent good paying gigs. If something were to happen with this band, i would be out there looking for years. It's the way the Milwaukee bar band business is. Blue

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1420711813' post='2652331'] It's a very strange attitude that I think is exclusive to music, I can't think of another hobby that people would be expected to be paid to do. [/quote] Well, it's not a traditional hobby.It's B2B ( Business to Business ) What other hobby's are there where your providing a commercial service for another business for 4 hours? Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420749472' post='2653077'] I have a start-up band from scratch and I have gigs in the book for March. I accept I wont hit those dates but May is realistic IF I get my finger out. I find that any new enquiry to a muso requires credibility and conviction and I feel I'll have both. Of course, they need to be prepared to put the time in and that is what the 'sell' is really for... so I have to convince them that my project is a better prospect than an established band. A fresh new exciting band rather than a tired old unit that still will need a few rehearsals to get someone up to speed.... I guess I need to convince the people I go after, that this is not a waste of time.. I think that is the most important thing... For example, there is not a band around here..that I can recall off the top of my head, that I would want to join...so in that sense, if others feel the same way, then my offer might be a very good one. [/quote] Then your one of the guys that can form your own band. No argument from me. However, you would never be able to convince me to join a start up. Blue

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1420716394' post='2652421'] One of the first bands I was in was with older experienced guys who had been gigging regularly, taken some time off and were looking to get into it again. Rehearsed almost weekly for the thick end of a year before I started making noises about getting out and gigging. Eventually the band leader (main guitarist) relented to us doing 1 unpaid gig, told everyone before the gig that he actually didn't want to play live anymore and the band split after that single gig. Bizarre. By that time I'd also been coopted into another fun band and was doing stuff with them anyway so that just became my focus until the next 'serious' one came along. [/quote] If you want to gig and make a little cash, in general stay away from [i]"start ups"[/i] and [i]"originals"[/i] bands ( a band getting back [i]"into it" [/i]is a start up ). I never audition for a band that doesn't disclose their gigging schedule past and present on their web site. Blue

[quote name='HengistPod' timestamp='1420727337' post='2652652'] Very true. My son is a fantastic guitar player, but is simply not interested in gigging. He swaps files electronically with his muso mates, and they write stuff together that way, with Pro Tools and other things that confuse me. Their overall aim is well-recorded music which they share on the web. Although much of it is way too technical for me (by Dog, they love strange time signatures and changes), they could easily play it live if they wanted. They just don't want to. Strange thing, the youth of today - as it always has been. [/quote] Yeah, it's different for young people. There was a young guy at work that was telling me about his band everyday and the recordings they were making. I asked when they were gigging or playing out. I am not joking, he didn't understand what I was talking about. Blue

[quote name='NJE' timestamp='1420732016' post='2652757'] The band leader in one of my bands owns all of the kit, the rehearsal space, gets us well paid gigs, picks the songs (most of the time) and its a case of, 'do it my way and do it properly of f*@k off' basically. I like it, everyone knows where they stand and if your a knob and don't work hard your gone. [/quote] If he's getting everyone paid, then what he say's goes. I totally agree. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420747486' post='2653044'] I wouldn't say this is true over here... Gigging once a month can mean just that... but since they have websites and/or FB..that is easy to quantify..ie, if they are a gigging band. Also, in my area, you'll have heard of the gigging bands or come across them and if you haven't then that puts a question mark over the player. No one says 'signed' anymore... but every band has 'released' a CD...and again, you can file that under various degrees of delusional which can easily be quantified. Basically, an experienced hand will sense and detect BS and you will then just let the enquiry go... More pertinent is 'recommendations' from someone you don't know which is what FB locally is good at as you'll generally find up you are hooked up with the same sort of guys.... so this is a circle you swim in and you/they carry the same sort of 'credentials'. And to make it a tad more topical.... why would you like, befriend a band or a musician you didn't actually know anything about? [/quote] Then it's a regional thing. Over here "we want to gig once a month" is usually a [i]"start up"[/i] with no track record to check or a band with no way of tracking their gig record either. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420747412' post='2653040'] I've done well out of bands not out every weekend. It also gives you an opportunity to be in more than one band. My current band tends to play at least once a month. [/quote] Many of us are [i]"one band"[/i] guys and no interest in playing in multiple band. [i]"One Band, The Right Band"[/i] Blue

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1420732453' post='2652767'] My long rambling post was trying to do just that. Oops, fail Its so simple though, the only skills you need to start a band are an idea, and persistence. You dont need to play well or at all really, enough electronica and punk acts started out of a desire to make a sound and no real knowledge of music to prove this Getting people to buy into your idea is as simple as engaging the right people, which happens if you take the time to find them, it took me about ten years before I found the first two people who would be the right people for my band, but I did eventually find them. The right people are the ones who want to join your band provided you give them accurate information about what you are about. As for resources, I used anything to hand to try and connect to people who might fit, I met the drummer taking my son to music classes where his son went, and we got talking, I met the guitarist on bandmix, because I liked one of his tracks (as in I clicked like, he found me on facebook as a result of liking what I put up there on bass and seeing that I had liked his track - interesting dynamic), I found the trombonist as I work with him (had done for a couple of years, had no idea he played an instrument - result!), he brought the trumpet player, he wouldnt play unless she did as well, they come as a pair (double result). The gap between the first two getting involved and the second two was over a year, when the horns came we already had a set, it took another 9 months before we grew further. The keys player I found via gumtree. The percussionist saw us at a gig and wanted to play with us, she is by far the most qualified member of the band (MA from the Royal College of Music - that carries plenty of weight with me). The more of a band and a set you have, the easier it is to get good musicians interested though. [/quote] Then it was an option for you, not everyone. In the real world, starting a band is also a "start up" band. Over here start up bands have nothing to offer, hence your not going to attract musicians that are band ready. Me personally, I wouldn't take 10 years to find 2 people or 50 people for that matter. My point, I'm an example of the guy that starting my own band would not be an option for a myriad of reasons. at the top of the list would be, not being able to pay anyone. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420715165' post='2652391'] After a couple of months with no gigs in one band I asked the question about gigs and the guitarist said "I just like coming down on Tuesday nights and jamming. It gets me out of the house." Kind of frustrating when you've joined a band and learned their material under the pretext of gigging at least once a month. That's me off then...[/quote] For those looking for gigging bands, here's a tip. "We want to gig once a month" means, this is not a gigging band.That's the way it is over here. Best not to pursue the opportunity. Here's another trick bands use to solicit musicians; "Signed Band Needs Bass Player" IMHO, being signed could mean anything usually it means nothing or the band wants money from you up front. Usually for nothing but their pockets. Blue