blue

[quote name='titchfieldrelic' timestamp='1499973166' post='3334950'] Hello Prunes, I started at 55. I'm 67 now. YouTube is a great substitute for playing in a band. Often, the bass tab is available on video/YouTube separately for a song you want to learn. Then, you can play along to the video/YouTube of the song being played by the band. [/quote] I have to disagree, playing along to YouTube clips is great but very different than playing in a band live. Anyone ever rehearse songs for an audition and you feel confident like you own the song? You audition with the band and everything falls a part. The YouTube clip is leading you through the song and you hear cues that are always there. And the tempo is always consistent.Those things don't necessarily happen live with a band. Blue

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1499950509' post='3334755'] My reading of what Blue is saying (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't about whether the audience notice the mistakes/poor performances/bad arrangements/etc but rather whether it's OK to not worry about it and not want to improve [b]because[/b] the punters didn't/won't notice. And they don't - I have stories - but that's not the point. It's about "the punters won't notice so we won't try" rather than "the punters didn't notice so we got away with that one" right? [/quote] Correct Your a breath of fresh air Steve. Blue

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1499940557' post='3334644'] Its not for another thread. Punters DO notice the difference, thats why I always want my band "On". A Pub band can and should be just as professional in attitude to practice and rehearsal as a pro band. That was my point, punters do notice if a band is having a great time rather than simply playing the right notes in the right places. Its about a professional performance/show, rather than just being a good musician. [/quote] What Punters Notice At Gigs is a good topic, but has absolutely nothing to do with my thread IMO. Blue

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1499939687' post='3334630'] I have been to many big gigs in the last few years where I have left with a sense of mild disappointment. Yes the musicianship, sound and production have been very professional and slick, but there were vital ingredients missing....excitement and passion. I would rather see a semi pro band in a pub giving it large, and looking like they mean it, than a big name act being very polished and professional, but clinical and lacking passion. Its rock and roll, its supposed to move me, excite me, surprise me. [/quote] Another good topic for another thread. Blue

[quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1499939088' post='3334620'] We certainly don't Blue. We practise hard and aim to play the best set we can, to the best of our abilities. The inevitable minor mistake however isn't something I lose any sleep over. I wish I was still a young musician, however I'm hurtling through my late 40s as I write I saw a very highly rated bass player in one of the biggest rock bands in the world totally screw up the intro to one of their biggest hits when I saw tbem live a few years ago. He shrugged, smiled, and just started again. The audience loved it. [/quote] I get where your coming from Dave, but I'm not going to get into a discussion about mistakes. Blue

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1499937884' post='3334604'] I would think that Ann Wilson and Peter Frampton as an example have reached that point in their career because they put the effort in. They've obviously taken on board any criticism from early years and worked to improve what they percieved as flaws or failings in the performance. I would hope that i strive to do the same altho don't see me reaching their level as its more a hobby for me and its not a career for me. That being said i want to put on the best show or performance i can as a band. I would expect "professional musicians" to have put more time into their material and performance and therefore expect a higher level of show than the guy who has to work 40hr week and hopefully get an hour or two at night to learn material for his pub gig. You have to draw a balance between what your full time job is and what you can realistically achieve as an amatuer. A good positive attitude to the performance and a high level of confidence is a huge help no matter what level you are at. Its a bit like comparing a repair tech who does it for a living and a guy that does the odd repair in his spare time. I would expect the full time repair guy to know his job better and offer a better service level. That is a general observation and there will lalways be the exception to the rule. Dave [/quote] Agreed, Thank You Dave. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499937447' post='3334597'] Possibly, but topics evolve and spread out into other subjects. It's difficult (and often counter-productive...) to try limiting posts to just the one question or opinion. That's the way of forums in general. [/quote] Don't get me wrong. I welcome a debate anytime if someone has a different opinion or disagrees with my point. I really do. However, I thought I made my point perfectly clear. Again, I think my thread title was not the best choice of words. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499936224' post='3334584'] His 'point', I think I'm right in expanding, is that some acts (DT being just one example...) have many followers who are very appreciative of their heroes, but equally very critical in their expectations. Other shows are more 'background music', in which the general 'ambience' is more important than the technical exactitude, as few, if any, are listening so intently to the band. That's not to say that the bands in question should play to a low(er...) standard, simply that the attention is different. You did this yourself, I believe, when watching the Frampton show; you were (unconsciously..?) listening out for errors, where your own audience were just dancing to your blues beat. I hope I've not betrayed his intentions here. [/quote] I referenced what IMO was a flawless performance. But that's not what the thread is about or my point. Blue

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1499935450' post='3334566'] 2 gigs I went to see many years ago stand out for me on this subject. First one: Buddy Guy. He made loads of mistakes but put on such an entertaining show. Lots of banter with the audience and put everything into being entertaining. Second one; Robert Cray Band. Faultless but soulless performance which left feeling like I could have simply listened to the CD. I'm OK with mistakes. [/quote] Mistakes would be a topic for another thread. Blue

[quote name='Yank' timestamp='1499935804' post='3334574'] Through the years, I've noticed that some musicians seem to stagnate at the level that they're good enough to get a gig, but don't put in the effort to improve beyond that. They've reached their personal pinnacle. Others will always strive to improve. [/quote] Agreed Blue

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1499935328' post='3334563'] I wish more of the gigging musicians I see accepted that they are there to ENTERTAIN the punters. If you arent grabbing their attention you arent really doing your job, so it is not going to have much impact on the crowd if you DO drop a few clunkers. However, if as Blue says you are comitted to what you are doing, you WILL be entertaining the crowd. The audience arent likely to be able to put a finger on any errors, but they will generally notice something went adrift, but only IF you have their attention in the first place. If you are playing live performance is everything, but it will only be as good as the time you put into making it asppear effortlesdsd in the first place. I have done several gigs recently with pickup bands and only ONE of them really nailed it. The one with the most accomplished players, who had also worked together a lot in the past. [/quote] I think my thread title is confusing. My point is, pros like Dream Theater, Peter Frampton or Ann Wilson didn't get to that high performance level by adopting a "punters can't tell the difference" attitude or approach to their careers. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499934496' post='3334554'] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Theater"]Wikipedia: Dream Theatre ...[/url] [/quote] Oh yeah, I've heard about this stuff. However, I'm not clear on what Nancy's point is? Blue

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1499930422' post='3334528'] This isn't Dream Theater my friend. [/quote] What's Dream Theater? Blue

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1499930771' post='3334530'] I'm surprised by your second response. Why do you say that? Is it just self criticism or were comments made? [/quote] It's a "I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we she be playing those kind of gigs" Blue

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1499928502' post='3334510'] Then you and I are the lucky ones. Time is a rare commodity for most. For those with young families, forget it. Your time will not be your own ever again. Unless you have a job in a timber merchant's where you can use their wood shed during lunch break talking about the merits of woodshed is a moot point! My time was not my own due to old family responsibilities until recently. Now I have no one to answer to. It is all down to me. No longer can I avoid exercise, practice and extending my repertoire with the excuse that someone else's priorities are restraining me. If I'm honest, it's scary but at least it is [i]real[/i]. I think I must have a tendency towards claustrophobia because I find it a struggle to practice with 'phones or looking at stuff on tiny screens made for children and the wee folk in general. I am fortunate to have alternatives. Just as an aside; Did your festival spot as support for Frampton boost your personal ambition? You seem to have refocussed somewhat. [/quote] 1. It's merely a YouTube clip giving me a click at 140bpm. I'm not distracted and I'm not looking at a screen. And tutorials are not for everyone 2. No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs. Blue

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1499902215' post='3334472'] By the way, I have a modest but comfortable woodshed, relatively speaking as it is really a double glazed workshop. Not everyone lives with access to one. I read about bassists living in flats, apartments, tenements and the like who will never have the luxury of a family free space where you can play amplified and not be a nuisance to neighbours[/quote] Granted, I answer to no one, my time is my in. I play when ever I feel like it. I don't practice with an amp. I pick up a bass and use my phone to learn songs, partake in a tutorial or just practice scale application s using my phone as a metronome. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1499900262' post='3334461'] I very much doubt that no one in Framper’s band made a single mistake throughout the whole night, just that at that level the mistakes that they do make are harder to detect and that they recover from them with more composure than the average weekend warrior! If you have read Guy Pratt’s book you might have noted that when he was on the road with Pink Floyd, he and the keys player would stay up all night listening to tapes of the show earlier that evening picking out mistakes and trying to improve the performance for the next gig. This is of course when they weren’t chasing models, crashing hire cars, taking drugs with celebrities or amusing themselves at the expense of local dignitaries! What this suggests to me is that even players of that calibre do still make mistakes (even if no one else really notices) and that they constantly work to improve their performance. [/quote] Gotcha Pete, I tend to be a bit provocative to make my points. I think I shared my story about the The Stones when they played Milwaukee 2 years ago and completely blew the intro to "Honky Tonk Women". And it was Mick that actually got them through it. Blue

[quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1499892658' post='3334416'] It depends on the gig and the crowd. I would expect a high standard from a pro level 'name' act at a large festival, and so would the majority of the audience. That is their expectation. At the kind of gigs I play (pubs and bars to drunk Saturday night-ers) the occasional cock-up is not just tolerated, but hardly noticed. The average weekend pub crowd wants to hear and sing along to something they know. They're not demanding a virtuoso performance. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. [/quote] You make a good point Paul. However, I think young serious rock musicians usually start out playing clubs and bars. I'm not sure it's a good idea to set your standard by what punters accept. My point here is don't set your standards by the low standards of a pub crowd. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499891355' post='3334400'] Nah, he went by coach. [/quote] I just don't know Dad3353. Sometime I think "woodshedding" is a disipline of the past. Blue

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1499890608' post='3334392'] So you could pick out every single note and beat in a complete set at one listening and you know it well enough to know that each and every one was spot on? Sorry but I just don't buy that. [/quote] That's fine. Blue

We have a local rock guitarist here Greg Koch, maybe you've heard of him. I've heard critical comments from other local guitarists, because they don't like like his "in your face" aggressive execution and style. https://youtu.be/jQQIT4SJHpY Greg also got to where he is on the "hard work express" Those other guitarist are on "excuse express" Blue

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1499889123' post='3334383'] Flawless or you didn't notice? [/quote] Flawless Blue

[quote name='Mickeyboro' timestamp='1499888811' post='3334381'] How many times pro bands I know have come off stage unhappy, yet the fans are delighted... Not sure what it means. Maybe they arent their own best judges. [/quote] Good topic for another thread. Blue

[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1499887795' post='3334372'] I think it does depend on the instrument and what's being played when. Knowing how to cover up a gaff on the bass is part of the skill you learn. Making a mistake in a well known lead guitar solo is always going to be more obvious that making a mistake in a chugging 12 bar rhythm line. [/quote] I think your making my point. Peter and Ann did not get there by making excuses. It's what separates the men from the boys IMO. Blue

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1499887085' post='3334363'] Very true. I think most people making the comment 'Punters don't know the difference' do so with a sense of exasperation - namely that all their efforts to hone their sound, their playing chops, and the tightness of their band, go unappreciated by cloth-eared drunkards. [/quote] It's a slippery slope. How about the band that says,"Wow the crowd really loved us tonight" when you know your band played like crap. Then hey, why should we try to improve and move up a few levels? Blue