blue

Females can be fickle. If they don't like certain songs they're not going to sing it. Blue

[quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1478618804' post='3170339'] A long time ago I went down the Melody Maker ads route , ended up in bands where there was no friendship and soon baled out. If I'm not playing with mates or at least good acquaintances whom I can have a beer with I'd rather not be in band at all. [/quote] That won't always be the case. When I was a young guy,yeah I played with guys I grew up with , friends and it was great. Now,50 years later, for me this is a fun business and I love it. If you pick the right band friendship is not really necessary for me. As long as I'm playing with good, honest, stable, responsible, focused trustworthy people that understand the band business and know how to have fun, I'm good. Blue

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1478692187' post='3170944'] Some people are just not suited to being in bands. After playing in various bands over the years & generally finding it to be a pretty miserable experience I can say that I'm one of them. I enjoy playing music with other people sometimes but I have no desire whatsoever to be an "entertainer" - I get nothing from playing in front of an audience other than the feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else. [/quote] Best case I've ever seen for not being a match for being a member of a working band. "I get nothing from playing in front of an audience" Me, love entertaining, the attention and the applause and pay for all the work I out into this. We're all different. Blue

[quote name='JohnR' timestamp='1478683776' post='3170824'] Never be a cog in someone else's machine. If you are a bass player in a band make sure to get involved in songwriting otherwise when the record deal comes around you suddenly become hired help and not on the contract. [/quote] I'm not a song writer, I don't have that ability or interest. I play bass and sing background vocals. This is a limitation I have to deal with. Blue

[quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1478689056' post='3170900'] As I've said in other posts, it's better to play with mates rather than with people you've met through wanted ads. For one they're more likely to encourage/praise rather than criticise and are more likely to be democratic. When you join someone else's band you're little more than a hired hand. Many bands have broken up over this. There've been many notorious feuds been between band members who were never friends to begin with. I'd rather not be in a band at all than join one through an ad. [/quote] I've been in a busy and one if Milwaukee's best fenale fronted progressive rock blues bar band for the past 5 years. The band has been together for 11 years I did my homework and persued the band. I knew they were making money, had a star and we're honest, good trustworthy stable people. I would never join a band that didn't have a "star". The ability to make good decisions in matching myself to bands came from years of overall band experience. I'm a paid hired hand and that's fine. Blue

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1478681741' post='3170799'] When we start out on our journey into bass, we all here those iconic bass lines and we get stuck in there. Even before we know what we're listening to is a bass guitar or DB, we're falling in love with the richness depth of that tone. A sound so deep and thick you could almost cut a slice off and... OK, maybe that's too much, but you get it. But all these bass lines are normally in a band context. So we all go down the route of buying a bass and aspiring to play with others. Speaking for myself, I did all that. Never had an amp in those days, apart from plugging the bass into a reel-to-reel tape deck and using it's output stage. It worked. It sounded like nothing on earth with tons of unhelpful distortion. I hated it. I dropped it for a number of reasons and came back to bass when I was 50. I still aspired to being in a band. I got into a band and immediately came across the egos of others. The instructions to "play only the roots" as the keys were playing the bass line. Directions from guys who clearly didn't know the rudiments of music. (Like, you don't adjust the beat to fit in with the timing of the lyrics.) The sound of the band was a cacophony. I quit. Back home I can't be bothered with the faff of mp3 players and playing along with tracks. I read cello scores and transcribe other scores and really dig the tone of a bass playing, effectively, guitar-style. It's a challenge to my ability, but it's coming on and it's a hobby. I don't need to drive all over the country. I don't have folk pulling my playing apart, letting me down. I don't have to buy and store large gear that will only get used when away from the house. I don't have drunks telling me their dad plays better (or the likes). True, others may not agree that what I do is playing bass, but it suits me. I'm trying to get my head round something from "My Fair Lady" right now. I play almost every day and it fits in with my lifestyle as I play for any odd half-hours etc that I get the chance. "Why don't I change to guitar", you might ask? I just prefer the tone of a bass guitar to the twang of the treble-clef. I'm sure I'm not alone, am I? [/quote] Your not alone, and the bedroom is the right place for some. I still contend that bands are great and being in the right band is great,bad band experiencs are not. Many go into this auditioning for bands not knowing what they want out if a band experience. They just want to be in a band. They don't define what they want and don't research the band or even try to understand or identify if they're auditioning for good stable people or flakes. Most bad band experiencs are our own fault. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478624993' post='3170414'] That sounds strange. I'd have thought those people would need guys to call on. If you talked to Greg--if he is cool about it, don't ask HIM for a dep job, ask him if he knows of anyone needing someone. No one likes to be sand-bagged for a gig.... especially if they hardly know you. [/quote] As I said, depping is not real big in my part of the world. I really don't plan on asking Greg anything. He's really not a resource for me. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478605998' post='3170185'] Yes. That's a more comprehensive reply. [/quote] Guys, there is just not much depping over here in my corner of the world, even if there was I doubt I'd be called by anyone. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478554453' post='3169914'] 200 seats is not that big a jump. It should be achievable....BUT... not if you play the same area for free. And you can't cut the gigs down as you all want/need to earn. Getting enough of those gigs is tough tho... Needs a strategy. And that is why I always say there is too much cheap music available and punters are too used to not paying for it etc etc but we've trod that path in threads often enough [/quote] Most bands over here doing it have a relationship with an independent label. YouTube or Google 25 year old Samantha Fish. Blue

[quote name='CrackerJackLee' timestamp='1478555395' post='3169922'] you carry your gear to the car, load the car, get gas, drive, park, unload, carry, set-up... then you play four hours... buy a beer and a sandwich... then break down the gear, carry, load the car, read the parking ticket, stare at the new dent in the fender, drive home at 1:30 in the morning, unload, place your gear in the house, and collapse on the couch... all for $37.55...you actually lose money. my band is now only interested in outdoor events... more exposure - no drunks - no owners... like a day trip... family is free to hang out or shop... enjoy the day... get home at a decent hour... to hell with bars... working for free is slavery. Enjoy...! [/quote] Sounds like the "originals" band scene in Milwaukee minus the $37.55. However, it's usually a 4 band bill and you only play for an hour. Blue

[quote name='CrackerJackLee' timestamp='1478557258' post='3169950'] I have reported you for self-debasement... but as I slip into my golden years, I fear that you have a point. Until I hit 46, I didn't have a clue. Not that I'm smarter, too late, I'm 62. They say that the bone floor under your brain drops with age. The angle changes. And you start getting more wisdom than you can bear as that part of the brain then starts to develop. They are now looking at people's skulls to gauge their wisdom... And as we get wiser, we must learn to live with regret... or just get a cat. Some people don't experience this as their skull won't allow the floor to drop... it gets stuck, or something... Young people, as I once was, can never understand the results of their actions until they reach 50 or so... then your mind generates all those memories that you never had the time to think through... and you must learn to live with regret... you don't get a minute's peace... but don't be hard on yourself... we all waste life constantly... my only hope is that some young feller reads this... and straightens out his life, like some old, crooked rusty nail... [/quote] Great comment. If I knew what I know now at 63 when I was 18 I would have taken the risk and perused music full time with the aspiration to make it big. Now, it's really too late. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478554004' post='3169912'] You're completely missing what I wrote. Where do you get your drummer/guitarist/singer deps from. Get the details of the guys you want to play with and get them to fill in your band when someone can't make a gig. Although, from previous posts about the way you treat your band, you probably have no say whatsoever about this. [/quote] Not so much that, in the 5 years I've been in the band we have never used a dep. We had to replace a drummer, but the guy we replaced stayed with us until the new drummer was up and running. When someone blocks a date we don't book it. Seems like depping is used more in the UK. No, I stay out of band management stuff. I'm not good at it. We recently added Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit". I was against it, I thought it was dated and a bad idea. Turned out to be our big crowd pleaser. Saturday night the whole club sang along with us. That tells you what I know. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478551046' post='3169876'] My mate in Florida is exactly the same.... can't do 4 hr gigs anymore every though they earn quite well and they aren't a bar band. I think a few gigs will pay around $3k, iirc, but they have to have a 5 piece with 5 lead vox as they really struggle. so, even if the money is ok, the hours are killer... Not sure how that works, will have to ask why they don't or can't cut the hours. [/quote] The hours are a challenge. Managing 4 hours of material is not easy. Last Friday we did a typical 8-12 and still had a respectable crowd at 11:30. That's not always the case.In this case the bar/restaurant has a good reputation for live music. People cone there specifically to see bands. 4 hours will never change for Midwest bar bands.You will play 4 hours until you are willing to tour and can fill at least 200 seaters as a headliner playing 1.5 hour shows. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478551207' post='3169879'] That is good.... do people in the town accept and agree on that. Is that accepted by other musos and bands? Do they come and check you out? [/quote] Occasionally we see some of the Milwaukee blues and rock veterans at our shows. Most are gigging when were gigging. Keep in mind were only 11 years on the scene many of the heavy hitters have been around since the 70s. So we will never fit in with them and some are blues purist. We're not. Blue

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478550955' post='3169872'] Thanks, Blue, but I am 59 next month, spent most of this year recovering from a motorcycle accident and part of last year from a fairly serious illness. I was still gigging as much as I could, but I know all about collapsing at the end of the gig, believe me! I am looking forward to my first gig with the new band (next Saturday) as much as I was to my first ever gig. Maybe there's something wrong with me! [/quote] It use to be a joke but now it seems it might be true. I never grew up. Please let us know how things go on Saturday. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478550037' post='3169859'] Surely you aren't....? but also, you can't be playing with bands that aren't good..?? as this is a trial by association. You get to play in a pool of known people, the bands and players are regarded and that becomes your level. You are expected to add to the bands you play with...you have something to bring to that party. If the band isn't rated, neither will you be. The only way to get out of that situation is to be a big stand-out...but the question will still be, why are you playing with these guys..?? At a certain point in the gig... everyone will be interchangeable, as in different versions of good, and then it becomes down to how well they get on with you, etc etc [/quote] I am the bass player for one of if not the best and busiest progressive rock and blues bands in Milwaukee. Blue

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478549927' post='3169858'] Definitely not, but perhaps many aren't setting their sights as high as you are. I just spent a few weeks rehearsing with a pub cover band (filling in gaps from the Wirebirds) but left a few days ago when I was asked to join a band with a much better reputation. Still kicking myself over the pro offers I walked away from 40 years ago, but I did the same as you, went to uni to satisfy my family. Total waste of time. [/quote] I hear you Dave. I still have the bug and the spirit of an 18 year old for rock & roll. But at 63 years old, I got home from gigs this past Friday and Saturday night at 2:30am hardly able to stand and colasped on my bed thinking, "why am I doing this to myself?" My old mates from Jersey ask me the same question. I don't know why Blue

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1478460723' post='3169188'] Kelly Clarkson-Since you been gone is a great tune and she can belt them out. Anything by Paramore should be top of your list, brick by boring brick, misery business to get you started (addicted ). [/quote] What an underated bunch of young top notch Pros, Paramore. I'm a big fan. You might want to check out Gail Hale of Hale Storm, she's the "real deal" and the "cats meow". Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478548723' post='3169837'] Sometimes you can't do anything about that... cliques can be self serving and very closed off. By the same token, they are a known entity or better the devil you know. The first thing is you should know them and they should know you. No one is calling randoms but if everyone is busy them someone knows someone and you get a nod from someone who puts your name up. This is why you don't want to be nailed in by just one band. I think a good move would be to be a booker and if you are offering work, you get everyones number and they all have a reason to talk to you, firstly...then you are an ok guy, then you are friends etc etc... But, you have to be reasonable about the level you can operate in. Getting stepped into $600 gigs is one thing, going for national tours is another. [/quote] Good advice and commentary. I hope I'm not the only one on Bass Chat that is always looking for upgrade opportunities. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1478545831' post='3169805'] I think that you have to be realistic. Even if Greg Koch does happen to be on the same bill as you, I doubt that he is going to think of you when he needs a bass player (or me, or virtually anyone on here with maybe a couple of exceptions) when he has Roscoe Beck’s number in his phone…! You need to be visible to the guys you want to play with, so that they think of you when they need a bass player. Go to their shows and say hi, without necessarily pushing a business card on them. Above all play with as many different musicians as possible, so that you have more people to recommend you if the right gig does come up… [/quote] All so true Pete, and to be honest I don't know if I have what it takes to play with Greg. Greg still plays some of the same bars we play. He's approachable, he doesn't seem to be a jerk. I'll run into him sooner or later again. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478544749' post='3169792'] But have you spoken to the other heavy hitter band members and got their details and asked them to cover players from your band when they can't do gigs? [/quote] The local heavy hitters have an established stable of bass players they use. I guess the question is how you get in the stable. Keep in mind this is a clique of musicians that are native Milwaukeans that have worked together for years. Blue

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1478543063' post='3169775'] It's "cliquey" for f***s sake, not clicky. Right, carry on... [/quote] Understood Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1478526489' post='3169605'] Yep... but you need to be on the same gigs as them..and then they know you can work at a certain level, how you go about the business and how you work. Sometimes, the playing part is down the list but a certain standard at a certain standard is a given. [/quote] I've played shows with one of our heavy hitters, it hasn't been of much benefit yet. I wasn't really comfortable asking him to stick around to hear me perform. I know where your coming from because that's the way things happened for guys in the old days. Not sure that's the way it works anymore. Blue

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1478540930' post='3169748'] Hmmm. The way it works here is you pay a dep to play in your band. Once you've had a few different pros play with you they start asking you to cover when they need someone. Are you saying that 'heavy hitters' only play for big names? There must be a middle step between what you're doing now and backing Phil Collins on tour? [/quote] If there is I'm not aware of it or that actually where I am now. A lifetime (50 years) of good band and bass playing experience and I'm out there in the trenches performing every weekend.Still learning new things honing and updating my skill set. I have seen some of the few heavy hitters we have here at attending big shows that come through town and have diplomatically approached them. Basically asking them how, where and how they recruit new bass players. Leaving them with my business card and and an appropriate genre demo on a flash drive. Never received a response, but will continue to try and network with the heavy hitters. Could be I'm not what they're looking for, and I'm fine with that. By the way, I am not approaching or networking with those that are half my age. Not going to do it. Blue

To a degree everyone in my band plays at the same level with the exception of singing ability. Hmmmmm, I guess, really our drummer is performing at a higher level and sets us apart from other bands that would be considered our peers. Being really advanced as a rock musician can go both ways. There are some really great musicians with poor social skills and have a hard time interacting with and working with others. Many really good musicians like this are often bandless. Blue