blue

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1477214005' post='3160531'] I'd have thought that using backing tracks would make on the fly changes to songs a bit tricky. I wouldn't enjoy a band that stuck rigidly to a rehearsed set list with no room to improvise. [/quote] Dave, I love improvisation. I think it's a dying art. Against my better judgement I recently went to an open mic. When I was called up me and the drummer started a groove improvising in G major 7th. We were waiting for the young guitarist to come in. He didn't come in. He walked over to me and to and says; 'I only know songs" ? Blue

Saturday Night Halloweegiv, 8-12. Thinking of taking one of my MIJ Fender P reissues and my Gibson Custom Shop ES-335 bass. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1477307490' post='3161205'] That is a really bizarre situation - was there some dynamic between the two of them going on where you got caught in the middle or have you slept with his ex-wife or something?? [/quote] No, nothing like that Pete. It's just a good example of how clicky some if these musicians are. I'm not from Milwaukee. I'm still an outsider from New Jersey. Blue

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1476767661' post='3156997'] There are occasions, when you may have learned a new song. You want to play it as a big song, but the pub is quiet, so you try it out to see how it goes and you know the audience will most likely change and grow later, so you can play it again. It's hardly short changing the people if most of them never heard the earlier rendition. [/quote] Agreed, that's hardly short changing the audience. My point was merely that our band leader would never call the same song twice. And in the US bar bands play 4 hour shows. Blue

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1477250420' post='3160888'] It will never replace the string bass. After all, it won't book gigs, send out posters, carry spare fuses, capos for the guitarist, and be the only one with gaffa tape.... [/quote] It won't even replace the the electric bass, these patches that sound great have been around for years. To me it sounds like someone playing bass on a key board. The execution and dynamic s are quite different than a bass guitar. Blue

We always use a pa, sometime scaled back for small bars. Depends on the band. I've seen some that can pull it off playing without a pa and sone that can't. Blue

[quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1477266349' post='3161042'] Going back to Blue's original dilemma - I'd say it's not what you know, it's WHO you know. Networking will get you more openings. You need to talk to the right people. [/quote] And in my case who you know didn't even matter.Couldn't have had a more "the right person" in my corner. The guy that vouged for me was the bass player for the organizer who said "No". Both have known each other and we're founding members of Milwaukee's premier blues band. They've known each other for over 50 years. Blue

It use to be easy for me back in the 70s. You had a bass, an amp with 3 parameters, volume, bass and treble.. Now It's really hard for me. An amp with highs, lows, mids, contour, presence, boost , gain woofer and tweeter parameters. Add to that a bass with active pre amp for treble and bass boost. Oh and a fully loaded pedal board. I won't even look at the parameters on my cabs. If I dial in something good it's pure luck. Should I go back to the 70s where I belong? Blue

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1477258050' post='3160984'] So we gave our drummer the Spanish archer and now his replacement has bailed out due to stress and depression. We're in a bit of a mess...two gigs in November (Phoenix, High Wycombe and Fighting Cocks, Kingston); need a dep. Anyone care to loan us their drummer for a couple of weekends? Punky rocky. Easy material. 45 minute set. [/quote] When I'm evaluating candidates at auditions, I observe everything from the car he arrives in, how he travels with gear, his interpersonal skills, experience,dress along with other stuff. I can usually spot drpression, alcohol and drug problems. Unfortunately I'm not so good at spotting arse holes and have been fooled more than once. And here's a big one that most are afraid to ask; "Be honest, Hoe does your wife feel about you bein out working on Friday & Saturday nights?" It's a paying job, do you really have to. Blue

This is the type of stuff that turns guys off for playing in bands and gigging. I would bet that most guys that are down on gigging have had some sort of negative band experience that helped them decide gigging was not for them. A really good reason that you ask a lot of questions before joining your first serious band. Blue

[quote name='SisterAbdullahX' timestamp='1477210648' post='3160483'] Wouldn't this question have been more successfully answered on TalkBass, being that it's an American forum? [/quote] It's also a very closed minded forum of mostly wannabees. Not a fan. Blue

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1477189064' post='3160449'] I suppose these things do happen from time to time but I'd be more annoyed about my band mates wimping on thisthan the pub arsing about to be honest. [/quote] Yeah, I wouldn't have said anything but I would not have been happy with my band mates. Chalk it up to a learning experience. An hour commute should be reserved for "Cherry" above average pay gigs. Blue

I wish I had the resources, ability and discipline to start and lead my own band. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1477004357' post='3159272'] That is a very odd attitude from someone running a jam session. Normally they are crying out for any new credible player just to freshen things up a bit. A lot of band leaders use the better jam sessions as a way of finding new guys that may not have been on their radar - you never know when you might need a bass player and the two or three guys you normally ring are unavailable. Move to Texas mate, things seem to be very different there...! [/quote] Texas might not be bad musically, politically it might be rough for me. Blue

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1476993024' post='3159127'] I think basically you need to get your ass out there, Blue. Possibly beyond the borders of the Great State of Wisconsin, even. I think there's basically two routes to finding the band of yer dreams: i) Audition for advertised vacancies ii) Become the go-to local / state-wide bass guy (with vocals) who works with everyone: turns up, does a great job, totally calm and makes life easy Neither approach is mutually exclusive but it strikes me it's better to be getting the call than placing the call. [/quote] Agreed, getting outside of the State of WI is crucial. Milwaukee is very clicky and anytime I have reached out to those circles even though my abilities are equal if not better I always been answered with a big pile of rejection. You can't just show up and expect people to accept you. I remember I did go to a jam that consisted of local heavy hitters. I even had one if their own vet me or vouge for me. A new set opened and my guy introduced me and asked if I could play a couple of tunes with s well known guitarist and harp player. The organizer said "no" and they played without s bass player. Needless to say I don't think much of that circle or the organizer. And these guys were all older than me. Blue

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1476949492' post='3158650'] No one is begrudging you this Blue, it's in most of us to reach for more. You touched on it before, networking is your way out of your current "rut". That and a certain amount of luck. I once heard luck described as "when preparation meets opportunity", so are you prepared? Can you sight read? Are you a virtuoso, or can you play to a good standard? Can you use the Nashville numbers system? Can you improvise on the fly? Can you play a wide range of styles? Not trying to pontificate, I can't do MOST of the above, but this may be the difference between where you are and where you want to be. Scott from scottsbasslessons.com mentioned something that makes a lot of sense, find the busiest guys you know in your area, and book in and take some lessons, make sure they have your number, and don't knock back any offers. Try jam nights, they may be a waste, but you may find someone in a different circle looking for a bass player. One thing is for certain, if you change NOTHING, the likelihood is that NOTHING will change. [/quote] I can't do any of those things except play a variety of styles and read charts.. I know at least 3 guys that are on tour and headlining and they can't do any of those things. These are guys I grew up with and that I'm still in touch with. I should have my pass port in a few weeks as an effort to show I'm prepared. For me it has to be to get more networking in place. There are no open jams around here, only open mics geared towards newbies which would be a waste of my time. Nobody or no insiders or people that have any juice show up at open mics.Its not like Greg Koch or Daryl Strummer are going to be seen at an open mic. Blue

Good discussion guys. Thanks In conclusion, I am just down. I've been doing this with passion since 1966. I don't want much just a little more after all these years. And I'm sure there are a few others here in the same boat. Blue

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1476910185' post='3158479'] Nashville was and probably still is full of guys who wont commit to a local gig in the fear of losing the chance at a "road gig" if one comes along. They are generally to be found either flipping burgers or on welfare. [/quote] Never thought about that. However in the States I don't think it's all that easy getting on welfare. I think the rules vary from state to state. Blue

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1476863263' post='3157787'] To answer your question directly I don't think anyone here is paid what they are 'worth' for playing music. There's an excess of supply over demand. I put in 20 hours a week on bass and I get £50 in a good week. This is more personal though. For years you've been telling us how great your band leader is and how good your slot in the band. Has that changed or has one well paid gig gone to your head? It seems that the only way to realise your dream is to leave your current band behind. Well, there's no harm in looking but have a good look first. I know nothing about the scene in the USA but from your descriptions it doesn't look too different from here. There are very few touring bands that work five nights a week. Even huge international acts rarely sell out night after night, there's usually a tour organised for a few months with gigs mainly at weekends. 20 gigs is a big tour. The tour ends and the name band go back home or into the studio until it is time for next years show, the session musicians go and look for the next job. My wife has a saying, "don't put out your dirty underwear until you know you have clean". If you don't have an offer that gives you what you want then giving up a band where you say you are happy doesn't make an awful lot of sense. For years you have been saying how happy you are in a band where your leader organises everything and you just turn up and do a professional job of entertaining an audience. A man has a right to change but you've never struck me as a gambler. [/quote] We have a young BL that does a much better job at leading than I could. Not sure I've ever used the word "great'. I'm willing to gamble. Blue

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1476863928' post='3157796'] I agree with Mr Starr, I have read many of your posts blue, and you have always seemed comfortable in your slot. As I mentioned earlier, the really good slots where you are on 5 nights a week for extended periods or on a retainer are few and far between. The reality for most working musicians is that you need to cast your net far and wide to make a living. Just keep your head down and work but keep your eyes open! [/quote] I will. Blue

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476870029' post='3157880'] The thing is Blue your posts concentrate on you earning more for doing less. Thats the way they read. As has been pointed out, the headliners bands are almost a closed shop. These guys have been touring with the big acts for years and are well known in the industry, be it regional or national. It is beyond difficult to break into this environment unless you bring something different or unique to the party. Most of the young guys, still on the way up, will play for nothing to get into the top bunch of musicians. As a well respected musician once said "If you get into music to make money you will be disappointed, but If you get into music to make music you will always be happy" Its fine people saying go for it. Go for what, and how? Its not like you can pitch up at the DSS and apply for a job as a pro musician. Its a chicken and egg situation. Ask the pro musicians how they got where they are and most will tell you "Right place at the right time" ie luck. [/quote] I think these types of opportunities are more readily available in the States than in the UK. But , I agree it's about being in the right place at the right time and able to get up and at short notice. Blue

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1476817699' post='3157590'] The way I'm readiing this is that your goal is to play up a few leagues than your current band... otherwise your current band would be able to make that step. So, in that respect you do have to be better than the unit you are in... you have to bring something to the party to make a new outfit pick you. I think you should give it a shot but you have to be ready and able... There is a reason some bands are better...!! [/quote] From what I've seen being better is not always the case. There are marginal bands out there touring at the headliner level. I think it's more about being networked, being prepared,being in the right place at the right time and exposed to these opportunities. Blue

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476735700' post='3156865'] /\ This. You have made your mind up you are better than the band and music you are playing. Asking a forum, based in Britain, what they think about you doing what you want to do, in the US music business, seems a bit odd. I for one have no idea what the gig situation is in the States. [/quote] I'm not better than the band I'm in. I'm not better than anything. I'm saying I feel I should be making more money and playing at the national headliners level doing 80 minutes instead of 4 hours. I'm really interested in how other currently value themselves as a musician. Blue

Now that I think about it "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" always gets me. Blue

[quote name='jonunders' timestamp='1476764789' post='3156991'] Blue, I thought you had made it to the top. You're playing Skegness [/quote] I wish I was playing Skegness. Not me,a band we opened for Saturday night is playing Skegness. Blue