Osiris

Who'd have thought of using Marmite to relic a guitar? Not me, that's for sure.

In my ongoing quest to stop my single humbucker Sandberg Basic form sounding like a stingray, I came across the Nordstrand MM4.4 Pickup, which according to their website; [color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"the mm4.4 is the pickup to use if you want all the switching options. each row of magnets is actually 2 coils (2 magnets each), so the pickup can be split and remain hum cancelling in any configuration. front coil, rear coil, series, parallel… this pickup has all the basses covered"[/font][/color] Has anyone got one, tried one, heard one etc? Essentially I am looking to get away from the MM sound and want something that sounds more traditional. So the thought in my mind is how this would sound using only the neck coils? Would this sound be much different to the modern MM style tone that the bass currently has? I appreciate it'll never sounds exactly like a traditional J or P pup but would the tone be closer to these or still retain [i]that [/i]inherent sound? Your thoughts please, folks.

This is what our keys player swears by, an app called [url="https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/piascore-sheet-music-reader/id406141702?mt=8"]Piascore[/url], I can't comment on it myself as I've not used it but he swears by it.

Our keyboard player uses an iPad with various chord charts, scores etc on. I'll ask him what software he uses to organise them and let you know.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1422702988' post='2675770'] Yeah, my MM is a Delano, and I've done the coil tapping thing, It's just the sound doesn't really get close to the P-pup for me...tho YMMV, so it might be worth trying the rewire route, shouldn't cost more than £25-30 to have someone do it for you... The pickup position does mean it won't ever get exactly to the P-pup sound, but you can definitely get away from the MM sound... [/quote] I recently parted ways with a Sandberg JM which had a coil tapped humbucker and the sound was great in single coil mode when it was blended with the neck single coil, think Jazz bass on steroids! Am I right in thinking that if I get a coil tap fitted that a solo single coil could be a bit noisy? Yes, I appreciate that whatever happens that it will never sound exactly like a P (that's wishful thinking on my part), but getting away from the MM sound is certainly what I'm aiming for. I've been speaking to mate of mine who is a bit of a whiz with guitar electronics and he's got a number of options in mind to try, the same as have been mentioned already in this thread, experimenting with series, parallel and phase options. If we can get it so that it loses or at least reduces the nasal edge to the tone I'll be a happy little bunny. It makes sense to try the simplest, cheapest and least destructive options first before seriously considering new pickups and custom mods. Having spent more time playing with various option to alter the fundamental tone, one of the most effective so far has been to cut the mid frequencies on the on-board Glockenklang pre-amp, the greater the cut the less nasal the tone. According to the specs, the pre-amp offers 9db's of boost or cut at 550 hz. But as with all scooped sounds, it doesn't sit in the mix as well as I want. (I tend to play with the pre-amp flat on the bass and only minor tonal adjustment on my amp i.e. thing cut back further than about 11 o'clock and nothing boosted beyond about 1 o'clock - this gives me a tone that sits perfectly in the mix).

Errr, oh yeah, I guess the 2 halves of a P pickup do make a humbucker! To be fair, I'm no expert on these things so apologies for the confusion or apparent contradiction. When I said that I've yet to find a humbucker that I actually like, I had in mind those pickups that have 2 adjacent coils in a single enclosure like the MM style domino. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the suggestions folks. Money isn't a major consideration, I'm happy to pay a £100+ if it will get me a sound that I'm happy with. Which is what I'd end up paying for a good quality replacement pickup anyway. The pickup has 4 wires; red and black soldered together and white and green soldered together. It makes sense to me to start off by trying coil tap and or series/parallel switches first to see how things sound after that. If I'm still not happy then it'll be time to look at getting my pup modified as in my original post or possibly replacing it. The Nordstand Bigman looks interesting and is worth a serious look. Not sure about the Sims Super quad though, the video didn't sell it to me and it looks as though it's a bigger unit than the pickup I have, so after buying the pup and paying them to route the body and fit it etc, it'll cost best part of £300 which is what I paid for the bass!!!

[size=4][font=Calibri]I recently posted a thread asking for some ideas as to how to stop my Sandberg Basic from sounding like a Stingray.[/font] [font=Calibri]There's no point repeating myself but [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/252345-changing-the-fundamental-stingray-sound/"]the original thread is here[/url] if anyone wants to know a bit more about where I'm coming from - In short the bass is fantastic in every way and I'm loathed to part with it, but I'm just not a fan of the MM sound.[/font] [font=Calibri]I was starting to come round to the idea of having a neck pickup fitted but now another idea has struck me, but I want to know if my new idea is viable or just a bit silly.[/font] [font=Calibri]My new idea is this - can the existing MM style humbucker be 'converted' into a P style single coil using the existing (or identically sized) oversized pole pieces and pickup case? [/font] [font=Calibri]If this is possible, it obviously eliminates the need for any surgery on the body itself.[/font] [font=Calibri]My idea would be for a reversed P configuration with the bridge side of the pickup covering the E and A strings and the neck half of the pup covering the D & G strings.[/font] [font=Calibri]Tonally I'm after something more traditional, more vintage sounding. I don't mind if the pup is wired to the existing 3 band Glockenklang pre-amp or is passive.[/font] [font=Calibri]Due to the pickup position being closer to the bridge it obviously won't sound exactly like a traditional P but I'm guessing (hoping) that the sound will be more to my taste than the current tone; I've yet to find a bass humbucker yet that has a tone that does it for me, I just prefer single coils. [/font] [font=Calibri]Any idea if the unused pole pieces would interfere with the tone in anyway?[/font] [font=Calibri]So, can it be done?[/font] [font=Calibri]And if so, who comes recommended for such an undertaking? Preferably UK based.[/font] [font=Calibri]From what I've seen on a few other pickup related threads Armstrong seem to have a good reputation. [/font] [font=Calibri]Answers on a postcard, please.[/font][/size]

Thanks for the help, people! Unfortunately I don't really have the time or inclination to whip all the plugs off, add some tubing and then re-solder everything back up, but tauzero's idea of getting some oversized tubing and shrinking it down sounds like a plan. By the way, do you ever have any problems with condensation or water affecting the cables if you're using a kettle to supply the heat???

[size=4][font=Calibri]I'm thinking of getting some heat shrink tubing to mark my cables up but have a couple of questions.[/font] [font=Calibri]From what I understand most of what's available has a shrink ratio of 2 to 1, so it effectively halves in size i.e. a 12 mm bore tube will shrink down to 6 mm bore.[/font] [font=Calibri]Is this right?[/font] [font=Calibri]How much does it stretch (if at all) before you shrink it?[/font] [font=Calibri]i.e. can you stretch it over a Neutrik plug or would you need to remove the plug, slide the tubing over the cable and then re-solder the plug back on?[/font] [font=Calibri]How exactly do you shrink it?[/font] [font=Calibri]I've read that you can use a hair dryer but some of the tubes quote a 70 degree centigrade heat required and I don't think many hair dryers would run that hot, would they?[/font] [font=Calibri]Any words of wisdom, or suitable alternative methods for marking my cables appreciated. [/font][/size]

It's already been mentioned but try and give the [url="http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=117"]Mark Bass Super Booste[/url]r pedal a go, it has the same 2 filters that Mark Bass amp heads have. I have one, it's the only pedal I use live, and the Vintage loudspeaker emulator is brilliant, you can go from a bright modern to a warm traditional tone in a second and, to my ear at least, it is spot on, it cuts the right frequencies by the right amount (I'm using a TC RH450 amp into a Tecamp 2 x 12 cab with tweeter) but still leaves you with a perfectly usable tone without getting muddy or lost in the mix. Only problem could be that I think they have been discontinued....

Thanks Kiwi. Yes, I was aware that there are a few different pickup configurations available for the Basic model Unfortunately under the circumstances, the bass that came along was the one with my least favourite of pickup configuration - it's still a hell of a bass though and in truth I'm probably being a bit pedantic about the sound. In an ideal world I'd have a [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basicvm"]Basic VM[/url] with a reverse P pickup in addition to the humbucker, or I'd be quite happy with the [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basictm"]Basic TM[/url] which has a single coil at the neck alongside the humbucker. But then again I also have a California VM and that absolutely nails the tone I want!

Although primarily a finger style player these days, I spent years playing with a plectrum (as we old farts call them ) and am still quite happy to whip one out when the need arrises. The way I have always played is by having my right hand floating i.e. not resting on the bridge saddles or anywhere else. Stylistically it's probably more a punk thing to do but I found it to be very versatile as it allows you to move your playing position for a wider array of tones rather than playing in one position as you do when resting your palm on the bridge. I also played up and down strokes together which always sounded much more fluid than only playing down strokes as many pick playing bass players seem to advocate. Up strokes tend to have a subtly softer attack and serve to round the overall tone a little. It's not a technique I learned as such, it just seem a natural way to play to me and I've never felt the need to change. Muting is also easy as you simply deaden the strings with your palm of the hand holding the pick. And as Bloodaxe said, let your wrist do most of the work

I've been trying a few of the above suggestions this afternoon and the results are positive! First off as Nick (Old Horse Murphy) suggested, was to switch the bass in to passive mode. To the naked ear the pre-amp is very transparent, so with the 3 band eq set flat switching between active and passive modes does not change either the tone or the volume of the bass. The next thing was to play in front of the pickup with my thumb anchored on the thumb rest that I'd already fitted. Despite the transparent nature of the pre-amp, digging in on the bass with a drum machine for accompaniment, the tone was markedly less nasal than it is in active mode. Yeah, OK, it sounds like I'm contradicting myself here saying that there's no perceivable tonal change between active and passive and yet there is - it's hard to explain, you'd have to hear it to see what I mean Anyway, I'm much happier with it now so much so that I don't think it's worth the effort and expense of doing anything drastic. This of course may well change.... I'm still tempted to put a set of flats on it at some point, it's currently strung with a set of round wounds that are played in but far from dead (the sound that I like). But for today at least I'm a happy bunny!

[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1420121737' post='2645768'] I've looked.... nope! It's a two-wire p/up. [/quote] That answers that then! Thanks Colin. Paul, the bass I'm talking about is not the one you replaced the machine heads on, it's another one! The VM that you did the work on has a humbucker with a reverse P pickup too - it's [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/calv-series/calvm"]one of these[/url]. And for the record, it sounds awesome And yes, you're right, the high gloss finish probably wouldn't fare to well to having some routing done The bass in question is a Sandberg Basic [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basic"]like this[/url]. I picked it up 2nd hand a few months ago for an absolute steal. I knew at the time that I wasn't a huge fan of the sound of single humbucker basses but thought that maybe the sound would grow on me after living with it for a while. But it hasn't really; it's in no way a bad sounding bass, just one that doesn't really do it for me. And as mentioned earlier, it feels sublime to play and with the ridiculously low asking price it was stupid not to take it. The bass is a few years old and has had a lot of use, as such it carries a few scars so I'm not too worried about potentially having a pickup cavity routed in it. It is a natural finish, (possibly oiled?) so as long as the routing gets done properly (if it gets done at all) then it shouldn't make a mess of the body. Thanks for the recommendation of asking [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Ki0gan, I'll drop him a line and see if he can offer any insights. [/font][/color]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. A set of flats is not something that I'd thought of but as 40hz says, it's a cheap option to explore. I've not come across GFS pickups before but they seem to have some good reviews considering the price. It's probably worth seeing if the existing pup can also be wired with a series/parallel switch too as this would be an even cheaper option. Keep the suggestions coming folks!

Cheers Nick, I forgot to add that the bass already has active/passive switching, and while passive mode does indeed warm things up nicely it still has that edge to it that I struggle to get on with! Although to be fair, I haven't really played the bass in anger in passive mode. I've got nothing to lose by giving it a go.

[size=4][font=Calibri]I have a Sanberg Basic 4 with a single humbucker in the same position as a Stingray. The trouble is I have a love/hate relationship with the tone; I love the way the bass slices through a full band mix, but find that the fundamental tone is somewhat uninspiring - this is in no way down to the bass or the quality of the Delano pickup and 3 band Glockenklang pre-amp, I'm just not a big fan of [i]that[/i] sound, be it on this bass or a Stingray.[/font] [font=Calibri]Many people love that Stingray bouncy tone, and that's fine, but it's nasal edge just doesn't do it for me - I miss having the tonal depth provided by a neck pickup. [/font] [font=Calibri]The obvious thing to do, of course, is to move the bass on and get something that gives the a tone that does it for me. However, in every other respect the bass is perfect, it's no cliché to say that this is one of those basses that is so good to play that it is very difficult to put it down - it just demands to be played. [/font] [font=Calibri]What I am pondering is what the best course of action is to either change or add to the tonal range of the bass. Several initial thoughts have occurred to me;[/font] [font=Calibri]I have already fitted thumb rest between the pup and the neck which allows me to play closer to the neck for a more rounded tone but it's not the same as you get from a pickup in the neck position.[/font] [font=Calibri]Getting a neck pickup fitted is my favourite option but this would obviously incur charges for routing (I don't trust myself to do this without doing some serious damage!) as well as for the pup. I'm not sure if the existing pre-amp allows for a blend pot to be fitted, if not, then there's a new pre-amp to factor in to the equation - unless I go passive, which I'm quite happy to do.[/font] [font=Calibri]Spending a reasonable amount of money isn't a major issue, but getting someone to do the work for me is obviously a bit of a gamble as I don't know anyone suitable so it'd have to be someone who comes recommended. [/font] [font=Calibri]Try and see if anyone has a Basic TM4 or preferably a VM4 for trade - bit of a long shot but if anyone has one for trade, please give me a shout![/font] [font=Calibri]The fundamental tone of the bass is slightly scooped so would getting the pup rewired for a more full range tone make much of a difference? (I tend to play with the bass and amp with their eq's more or less flat).[/font] [font=Calibri]Or maybe replacing the pup altogether? The [url="http://nordstrandpickups.com/products/mm4-4/"]Nordstrand MM4.4[/url] offers switching between the individual coils as well as series/parallel switching options, so that would certainly open up the tonal options - although I think the fundamental tone of all basses like this is due to pickup position rather than the pups themselves so would I be right in thinking that the last 2 options are probably not going to help too much?[/font] [font=Calibri]Your suggestions, thoughts and words of wisdom, please, folks. [/font][/size]

Fantastic lessons, Scott. Very clear and easy to understand. And full marks for not going off on a needlessly flash 'look-what-I-can-do' moment or two like many of the on-line instructors tend to

Just bought an ART PowerMix micro mixer from Peter and it couldn't have been any easier. Fast and friendly communication all through the transaction, and it was posted quickly and well packaged. Peter is a top bloke to deal with and I'd happily deal with him again.