project_c

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1452116850' post='2946737'] It's not about if they're a sh!t hot bass player... they have to look cool for a start. Also having one hummable bass line helps. [/quote] did you actually listen to any of his music?? hummable to the point of ridiculous. not to mention he is layin down tha funk. come on now. listen to this one, and tell me it's not cool or hummable. http://youtu.be/8qGigIMM1Vw

really? no response to Thundercat? you guys need to have a listen, he's pretty much the perfect response to this thread, he's a sh!thot bassist, and has a fan base that stretches way beyond the bass community. I'm not a huge fan but many young hipster types are, and they're the ones that decide where popular music goes in the future. http://youtu.be/lVqETCMg3SA

thundercat! http://youtu.be/GNCd_ERZvZM

I used to have this problem with my monitors, I could not get a good mix when using them. I just knew the sound of my hifi speakers so well that I preferred listening through them, or through headphones. Friends with studios used to tell me to keep both sets of speakers plugged in, and use the hifi to test the mix regularly, and also to give your ears a refresh by switching between them a lot. You get used to monitors after a while, but you need to work with them for quite a long time to get to know what's going on, so having your normal speakers nearby as constant reference will help.

not a user yet but will be soon, let us know your thoughts on it. that price is probably the only bad thing about it.

can't offer much technical insight, but I have a Commando which pops in the same way, but if I turn the volume off it stops doing it, and it's never caused any damage.

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1450181840' post='2930293'] I think that this is a pretty common pattern: 1) Someone figures out a new way of doing something, 2) Everyone admires the person, 3) People start copying, 4) Other people refine, 5) Years pass.... 6) Original person's innovation seems a bit crude / obvious / naive compared to later refinements. [/quote] Good point. This happens in art and design as well as music. It means that the original context is often lost along the way. Which means that when people who've never heard of Jaco hear Jaco's lines recited in guitar shops, that becomes the point of reference for guitar shop noodling, which totally changes how they perceive Jaco's music once they actually hear it.

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1449924182' post='2928013'] Refer to the OP: The operative words are "to me". It's an OPINION, as in "I don't like the way it sounds", not a statement of fact like "Jaco sounds like...". [/quote] Yeah, apart from the fact that it's followed by literally that exact statement of fact, which is what people picked up on: [quote name='AinsleyWalker' timestamp='1449496563' post='2923995'] "it sounded like I'd just walked into any guitar shop in the world... Aimless noodling... [/quote] Anyway none of this is that important. I just saw people ganging up on someone and thought I'd speak up for them, its not a big deal.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1449918885' post='2927927'] You missed the essential bit - "sounds like". Quite often jazz musicians do disappear up their own cleverness and end up SOUNDING exactly like that. However clever they may know themselves to be, in the end music happens in the ears of the audience. Last point I would make is that you give the plumbers opinion weight on the basis of your own ignorance. You don't presume his ignorance on the basis of him not agreeing with you on a matter of taste. REALLY bored now [/quote] None of this makes sense to me (apart from the 'bored' bit), but let's agree to disagree. I'm off to unblock my toilet, and noodle on my bass. Musically, both of those activities will probably sound the same.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1449914191' post='2927874'] With respect, no-one said that Jaco's music was a load of old bollocks. I don't particularly enjoy listening to him, in the main, and I do think there's a touch of "emperor's new clothes" about him harmonically, but I never denied his technical skill or influence - whether for good or not is another matter. I do resent the implication that we need to qualify to have an opinion on a matter of taste. Bored now, let the Bass Police have their way [/quote] That would be a fair point, but a statement like 'Jaco sounds like someone noodling in a guitar shop' is nothing to do with taste. There is a difference between 'i don't like the way it sounds', and 'it's just a load of random notes that my aunt could come up with'. I have opinions about many things. I think replacing the closet bend on my toilet is boring and requires little skill, but I would still rather get a plumber to do it, because I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to plumbing. Both the plumber and I are entitled to our opinions about my toilet, and on an internet forum, we have an equal voice. But ultimately the plumber's opinion is a lot more valuable than mine, and I know who I'd rather trust to clear the terrifying blockage in my house.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1449858001' post='2927611'] There's a touch of the "you don't agree with me, therefore you're uninformed (or dumb)" about this! I'm not uninformed, and I'm not dumb. My taste doesn't align with the Bass Police, but hey, who cares? [/quote] Not from me there isn't. I don't think anyone cares whether anyone else likes listening to Jaco or not, and nobody is questioning anyone's musical taste. Some people thought the 'random guitar shop noodling' stuff came across as provocation, in the same way as walking into an artists studio, and shouting about how 'Picasso is a load of old bollocks' will make the artists in that studio think you're obnoxious, and also that you don't know enough about it to have any kind of valid opinion. Not all artists like Picasso, but anyone who loves art will have spent a bit of time studying it, and will understand his cultural and historical importance. See what I'm saying?

[quote name='AinsleyWalker' timestamp='1449776405' post='2926785'] I'm not sure how my opinion on a bass player can be dumb just because you don't agree with it. Juvenile logic. My opinion would be dumb had I tried to judge Jaco without hearing anything he played, alas I have and therefore I'm entitled to form an opinion on what I've heard. By your thinking, a lot of here have stupid opinions. Why is it weird that people are standing up against someone? He does this on almost EVERY thread he gets involved in, I think it's spot on that people who are sick of it tell him. There's another thread about Paul McCartney and guess what, he's in an argument almost identical to this where he's accused people of being trolls and he's told people they should stop playing bass just as he has here. And like this thread, he has a whole host of people mocking him for his personal attacks. A mod even got involved and told him to stop, he takes things too far. For a man of his age he's acting like a total child on here [/quote] Ok, replace 'dumb' with 'uninformed' - my mistake. And yes, that does mean some people have uninformed opinions on here, and some can offer insight based on experience and knowledge. I still think an informed opinion is better than an uninformed one. If you think that's juvenile, that's your choice - you are entitled to your opinion.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1449742596' post='2926361'] Ah, but they're all "better" than you, so who cares? You're not allowed an opinion. So what you have to do to be allowed an opinion is either a) be a better player than anyone ever or know every detail of their career and output so you're not talking out of your arse - as if knowledge ever stopped people being stupid. [/quote] I think Blue was trying to say that an educated opinion is more valid than a dumb opinion expressed in a seemingly provocative manner. Regardless of the op's intentions I have to say I still agree with Blue. I just thought it was worth pointing out because some of you are ganging up on him in a weird 'Internet lynch mob' kind of way. If everyone is entitled to an opinion, why throw personal insults at him for his opinion? Goes against everything you're arguing for, doesn't it?

[quote name='AinsleyWalker' timestamp='1449579742' post='2924790'] Thanks to everyone who gave genuine helpful responses/suggestions, I plan to check all of it out at some stage! As to [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/3700-project-c/"]project_c[/url] and [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/34882-blue/"]blue[/url] it's a shame you feel the need to respond in the aggressive and self-righteous manner that you have, it's people like you that tarnish forums for others. Before I even said anything I stated that music is subjective, ergo, this is purely my opinion. I've been completely honest about my opinion and then as you can see, I've asked for suggestions that might change my mind because I'm always open to a fresh perspective. I figured this was the best platform to express my current point of view in the hopes that it might be changed, not for people like you to say I shouldn't be playing bass or that I'm deeply ignorant because I'm not currently a fan of one specific player. This is a place for friendly discussion and exploration, not for people like you to climb onto your pedestal in an attempt to put others down. Perhaps you both need to learn how to maturely disagree with others. [/quote] Ok, I'm happy to argue this out. If you post a deliberately troll-ishly worded post (labeling someone universally renowned for being one of the most important musicians of the last century as "not all that") and then saying he sounds like someone noodling in a guitar shop, don't be surprised if you get called ignorant. It's the same as walking into the Tate and telling everyone about how you think Picasso just looks like a bunch of random crap done by a 2 year old. Or going into a theatre and telling everyone about how Shakespeare is just a load of weird words. It comes across as deeply naive and provocative. That's how you normally choose to start a 'mature discussion', is it? You are entitled to your opinion, but it just comes across as trolling. For the record I am not a big Jaco fan either, but it doesn't take too many brain cells to figure out that there was a lot of talent and ability there.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1449541667' post='2924527'] Not sure if your referencing me, if you are I guess that's OK. However, I'm not trolling. And most that know me, know I live in a pretty back & white world. I don't think my opinion is any more absurd than the tittle of this thread. And i know my comment is pretty harsh and I should have kept it to myself. But I am thinking others had the same thought as me, but were to smart to share it.. Fisrt time in 40 years i have ever heard anyone refer to Joco's playing as "aimless noodling" Blue. [/quote] Referencing the OP, not you - I totally agree with everything you say. But i reckon this thread was started either by someone who's trolling, or just very proud of their own ignorance.. either way, not worth the effort!

I never get why people are proud to post stuff that makes them seem deeply ignorant. Unless it's just to troll.

[quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1447245554' post='2906034'] I respect a man that plays jazz with a P bass through an SVT. [/quote] Haha I don't even play it politely, not full out nosebleed but I like it punchy, and I dig in for my solos.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1447245367' post='2906029'] The room does make a huge difference - but a cab with good dispersion and a smooth low frequency roll-off curve will be much more resistant to bad room acoustics than a cab with poor dispersion and uneven bass response. [/quote] You'll get no argument from me about that, it's very true.

[font=Helvetica][size=3] I play through different amps in the same rehearsal space, and I've come to some conclusions about amps, rooms and tone in general. Not sure if this is useful to anyone else, just some of my thoughts on the subject…[/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] I play mostly jazz on 2 different basses. One is a USA p-bass with SD Quarter Pounders, the other is a fretless USA p-bass with Fender Custom Shop 62 pickups. My tone is standard no frills p-bass, lots of dynamics.[/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] Here's what I've been playing through at various times: [/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] - Ampeg SVT head, Ampeg 410 cab - sounds undeniably awesome.[/size][/font][font=Helvetica][size=3] - Laney tube head, Ampeg 410 cab - fine, sounds like an SVT rig[/size][/font][font=Helvetica][size=3] - Trace Elliot head (cant remember what model), giant Trace Elliot 810 cab - overkill, but it sounded amazing[/size][/font][font=Helvetica][size=3] - Ashdown 410 combo - the one I struggled with most, chunky tone, not ideal for jazz[/size][/font][font=Helvetica][size=3] - an older Warwick ccl combo - nothing special, but kept up without issues[/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] None of these amps made my bass sound crap, or out of place. This shouldn't come as a surprise, but the amount of negative stuff you read online about certain makes and models would suggest otherwise. [/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] Having said that, all of the above have also sounded terrible at times, and this is kind of where I'm trying to make my point. The single biggest difference in my tone came from where I put the amps within the rehearsal room. Place any of them too far to the back of that particular room, and without fail, they all sound awful. No amount of eq, compression or anything else will fix the bad sound. Bring them too far to the front, same again. You know that hollow, 'wet bucket' tone everyone hates? Not even the 810 was immune to it. But move them closer into the centre, where the ceilings are lower and the other musicians are closer to you, and they all suddenly sound exactly how you want them to. So my point is that in my experience, the room, and where you are within that room makes a much bigger difference to your tone than the amp you're playing through. It's not rocket science, I know, but it does make you wonder about the hunt for tone perfectionism, and the futility of it because of the nature of our instrument. [/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] I wonder how much perfectly good stuff I've got rid of over the past few years because of bad room acoustics…[/size][/font]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1446832361' post='2902800'] Here is an album of pics of my Roadstar II RB650BY after I cleaned it all up https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.587046798004670.1073741870.446213212088030&type=3 [/quote] looks awesome!

if I was looking for a pj set I'd go with Aguilar, they sound great. http://youtu.be/1exrD10v4mg

Well, just to give a quick update on this, I checked out an '86 Roadstar ii today, fretless lined maple neck, original owner, the condition was almost perfect for a 30 yr old bass, lovely neck, slightly narrower spacing than a Precision but wider than a jazz, the weight was ok too, lighter than my 80s precision for sure. I'm still thinking about it, but there are 2 things which will probably stop me from buying it: 1. the lines on the neck are a little difficult to see, and my fretless technique isn't good enough yet, I rely on those lines in a live situation. 2. The tone is sweet!! but it's not quite different enough from my fretless precision to justify owning both - even though I prefer a maple neck to the rosewood on my Fender. The seller is a very nice guy, if any of you are interested in the bass I can certainly point you in his direction.

I play jazz almost all the time using nothing but a p-bass. Flat wounds will help a bit, but what really helps is turning down the tone knob just a bit, playing a bit nearer to the neck, and most importantly learning how to walk and solo in a reasonable legitimate way. In my opinion (which could well be wrong) you could play jazz on any bass, as long as you've developed your jazz language and vocabulary to a decent level. If you need inspiration, watch Tom Warrington play his precision with Buddy Rich - 100% legit jazz as far as my ears are concerned. I personally don't buy into any kind of music having to be played on any specific instrument, it's a bizarre concept as far as I'm concerned. If you want to do it as a job, the context is different, but that's a whole other conversation.

[quote name='Grahambythesea' timestamp='1446544740' post='2900097'] Owned a single pick up Fretless Roadstar, lined maple neck, played superbly but not a lot of tone variation. I replaced it with a Fender P Fretless which did have a bit more punch. Both were bought second hand, the Ibanez for £99 the Fender for £650. Was the Fender worth the extra, probably not! Don't own either now. [/quote] Interesting, I'm curious about the fretless, I'l drop you a PM.

Seems like it's nothing but praise for these basses from you all, so I'm sure there must be something great about them. I'm going to take one for a test drive in a few days and I'll report back.