skankdelvar

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1389731851' post='2337360'] *storms over to liquor cabinet and has a brandy. Looks wistfully out the window.* [/quote] [size=3]View from Milty's window after a few brandies[/size]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1389732231' post='2337370'] Quoting Jeremy Wade, radiation appears to have stunted the growth of Catfish around Chernobyl. [/quote] Are they suffering?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1389728581' post='2337326'] Either way - Isn't it a bit... arty for the French? [/quote] I could tell them it was by Jerry Lewis and they'd cough up the readies in an instant. Squirrels. More fun than copyright or sidemens' fees. Well known fact.

I can do rabbits too

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389727119' post='2337301'] Extrapolating the dates, they're maybe due for change soon..? Care to send them your proposition..? [/quote]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389638452' post='2336439'] Logo for the French Savings Bank (Caisse d'Epargne...)... [/quote] Well, it all seems to have made perfect sense up until 1991 when they (presumably) paid someone like 'brand consultancy' Wolff Olins a crillion francs for a useless new logo that looks nothing like a squirrel unless you put your head sideways and squint. Sh*te, that Wolff Olins lot. Did the 'Ponce With The Trumpet' logo for BT and similar cack for other companies. [size=3][b]WO BT logo[/b]: Ponce. Perfumed ponce.[/size] I have an irrational hatred of everything for which WO stands. To the extent that I did 3 months back in '97 for harrassing Wally Olins with a cantaloupe. Took 'em two and a half hours to extract it.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1389637254' post='2336413'] Imagine how banks would take advantage of the poor squirrels! [/quote] Which is one of the reasons why my work with squirrels is pro bono and gratis. Among the squirrel skills under development is the ability to write polite but assertive letters of complaint. Coupled with 'enhanced household budgeting', we hope within only a few centuries to liberate squirrels from the stranglehold imposed on them by the high street banks.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1389634799' post='2336379'] The fact is that we are the only species with a financial system. [/quote] We are the only species with a financial system [i]at present[/i]. My experiment with squirrels is showing great potential. As for musicians and royalties, who remembers the bonds issued by Mr David Bowie back in 1997 which were securitised against his future record sales / royalties. Prudential of America bought the lot for $55m, kick-starting speculation that Generation Dinosaur (Dylan, Young, et al) would follow suit. The outcome? Subsequent issues (e.g. Holland Dozier Holland) met with tepid interest. By 2004 the Bowie Bonds were downgraded to near junk status and in 2007 the rights reverted to the [s]Pantomime Dame of Rock[/s] Thin White Duke. The moral of this story? Actually, I haven't got a clue. [color=#ffffff].[/color]

From Steve Lukather's web site - [url="http://www.stevelukather.com/media/34590/past-gear.pdf"]a history of his rig / guitars[/url] over the years. It's a 21 page PDF Thread from The Gear Page - [url="http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-1014392.html"]which pedals for Larry Carlton sound[/url] For more 80's session names and background, [url="http://guitarinternational.com/2010/09/30/first-call-the-top-studio-guitarists-of-the-%E2%80%9870%E2%80%99s-and-%E2%80%9880%E2%80%99s-look-back/"]this article[/url] from Guitar International

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1389536216' post='2335185'] Well, the actual scientists doing the difficult and creative design and development work only receive an hourly rate, so would that be another example of a few people getting inordinately rich on the back of the work of many others? [/quote] Depends. If - as is likely - we're talking about big pharma, then shareholders would presumably get rich. The shareholders are likely to be pension funds, to which many of us are contributors and will eventually enjoy a return on the investment. Or we would be, had not a certain irascible, gotch-eyed Hibernian intervened in the process a few years ago.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389544740' post='2335303'] how , why and with what validity did it pass into folk law that wearing a guitar slung low is cool , anyway? [/quote] I don't know about guitarists but Tony Goggle claims to be the first bassist to 'sling low'. According to his autobiography 'Goggle Box' (Random House) Goggle conceived the idea after seeing Jimmy Page at a New Yardbirds gig in Croydon. A few days later he debuted the new strap length while backing PJ Proby at The Marquee. Seeing this as an attempt to steal his limelight Proby fired Goggle after the gig. The story appeared in Melody Maker prompting a jokey poll about strap lengths. Reader response showed a positive 77% support for the practice and bassists everywhere followed Goggle's lead. Ironically, it was Goggle who popularised the 'high-roller' style during his time with Jan Hammer, influencing - among others - Mark King, Limahl and Bobby Proffit. [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389544740' post='2335303']Is that assumption universally adhered to, and if so, why? [/quote] Opinion is divided along demographic lines. 30-50 men have the highest propensity to agree 'Low is cool', with most instancing Dee Dee Ramone as a contributory example [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389544740' post='2335303']Do the majority of people really believe that, and if they do, why do they do so? [/quote] Depends what you call a majority. A recent concert-goer study by Ipsos Mori ('A Low Bass Is Cool') showed 27% agreed, 24% disgreed and 49% didn't know. When asked why, 86% of those who agreed did not know, 9% cited 'Punk Values' and 5% said it helped them to fantasise about what might 'lie beneath'. [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389544740' post='2335303']are they right to think that way and should we all subscribe to that belief ? [/quote] Whether they are [i]'right'[/i] or not is immaterial. Proponents of the Low Rider approach [i]believe[/i] they are right and are in a position to put their beliefs into practise. As for the ultimate arbiter, the Ipsos audience study shows the punters rank 'bass strap length' [i]above[/i] bass technique but [i]below[/i] the colour of the front-man's socks (if worn). As Simone De Beauvoir once said to me 'Cher Skank - je ne me soucie pas de sangles, mais seulement sur ​​l'endroit d'où vient mon prochain banane'. Quite!

I've never met a Bc-er I didn't like. All splendid types.

In respect of musical copyright, anything which increases a musician's earnings is a good thing. The argument that it is unfair to the purchaser would pertain only if the purchase was enforced. Which it is not. It is all very well to hold a view that - if enacted - would disadvantage working professional songwriters. But I would expect the idea to gain traction only among those who - being non-participants - would have nothing to lose. Perhaps that's why there is a tiny smattering of support here on a bass forum where hierarchy determines that some of us merely stand around waiting to be given something to play.

I can see the validity of Dad's proposition if one views the issue of one's 'time' in complete isolation from all other factors. The problem is that the idea of 'just reward' immediately introduces a transactional component. One individual is swapping their time-derived money for another's else's time-derived product or service. Without transactions, everyone exists in their own bubble where nothing ever happens. So we have to have transactions. Let us assume such transactions might be based on swapping equal amounts of time, which would be fine if the service or product warranted no additional expenditure beyond the time expended to deliver the product or service. But let us imagine a transaction where a luthier builds a bass. In addition to supplying their time, the luthier must additionally supply components which carry a cost. Unless he is to make an (unfair) loss, the lutheir must aggregate his own time cost and that of his supplier. Which - again - would be fine if all physical resources were infinite. But they are not. The moment that the luthier's customer chooses a mahogany body over basswood there comes into play a variation in price which is dependent not upon the time / cost of felling a tree but - in part and therefore of a contributory nature - upon arboricultural factors beyond man's control e.g. weather. Hence, the transaction becomes disjointed and time ceases to be the only determinant. We could explore all the other pertaining variables at length, but let's not. I believe the proposition 'everyone's time is of equal value' is valid only when viewed in the abstract or in conditions of theoretical hypothesis that assume away so many factors away as to lack the potential for any practical application. It's a nice idea and the motivating spirit entirely praiseworthy in a context of making everything lovely for everybody. It's rather like the old saying 'If wishes were horses, beggars would ride'. Well, yes, but they aren't and they don't.

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1389381031' post='2333727'] Take for example Radio , does the radio not pay the royalties for a broadcast , then why should an employer pay again if 4 people have a radio on in a workshop ? pay the approppriate royalty to broadcast to the population, but dont then further charge the population to listen to it FFS . [/quote] The population is not further charged, but it is the business owner who pays the MCPS and PRS fees. The rationale is that playing music in a workplace or a shop enhances the working and / or selling environment to the financial benefit of the company in question. The songwriters and performers are consequentially remunerated for the service they provide (at a remove), which is a very good thing for working musicians. PRS performs a valuable service to our community, notwithstanding the occasional public uproar when some music-thieving, fee-dodging hairdresser in Bolton runs off to the papers with a sob-story about heavy-handed treatment.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389378697' post='2333670'] I think I detect the merest hint of sarcasm here. (...and we'll weigh up the 'worth' of your last hour on Earth with his, and compare... ) [/quote] Hllo Senor DAD Mr Sknk tel me telL you wha life like heer on San Pedro for me. It gret hnour be his Charrly STuffer and kep my famly in mangos. I get uniform too with paeked cap, rubr glovs and a prong. It honest job and step up from workig in call centr. Yrs Ignacio Bonferrera (Mr) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1389379388' post='2333684'] The more copies sold, the lower the percentage paid to the artist and the lower the retail price. [/quote] So, a sort of fanboi tax. I like. (SDV).

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389376199' post='2333608'] I'm sure...difference. [/quote] You are taking me far too seriously, old fruit. In any event, this whole thing merely reinforces the public perception of bassists as the Eeyores of the musical community. The acid test is 'Who gets laid more often?' and the whole world knows that it is Tigger. If we wish others to render solace to our secret places, we must abjure drab 'musicality. Let us instead embrace brightness and motion. [size=3]'I shall go and practice my scales,' sighed Eeyore.[/size] [size=3].[/size]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389377586' post='2333637'] An hour's life is the same for us all [/quote] That's where the argument falls down. Is an hour of my life the same as that of the chap I employ to insert cocaine suppositories while I lay face down by the infinity pool on my tropical island. I think not.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389376731' post='2333618'] Ah... So you [i]have [/i]heard my stuff, then..? Hmm... [/quote] I confess I may have put my ear to the wall from time to time. One time, I was in a band where the drummer desperately wanted to write something for inclusion in an upcoming studio session. After days of scribbling the little chap presented a song entitled 'Black Box'. This was a peroration on the (then fashionable) use of drum machines and the perceived threat to live, human drummers. The song was so ghastly that the band rejected it on the spot and he stormed off in a huff. Time and circumstance mitigated against training a new drummer so - in an atmosphere of black irony - the session was completed with the aid of ... a drum machine.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389375694' post='2333601'] What makes you think I don't..? [/quote] It is a fact known to every schoolboy that drummers generally do not write songs. Those few offerings which spring to mind mostly comprise the works of Mr Sandy Nelson and Mr Cosy Powell. Only the mentally negligible would instance Mr David Grohl, for his submissions can be characterised as mere 'words and chords'. Mr Peart wisely restricts himself to lyrical input and opinion is sharply divided as to their merits. On the whole, drummers should confine themselves to hitting things and fiddling with those funny little keys they carry around with them; better to leave the 'heavy lifting' to the melodically qualified. [color=#ffffff].[/color]

[i](Edit for: Concise version above. Nice work, Mr Fatback.)[/i] Well, the simple answer is that people don't actually buy other peoples' time. They buy a product or a service from which they expect to derive [i]an outcome[/i]. Rather than peoples' time or lives being undervalued, it is the case that some outcomes are viewed as more valuable than others. Hence Mr Sting would get a lot more for an hour's work singing for one person than a plumber would get for his plumbing. But reverse the situation and I doubt Mr Sting would get more than the plumber's rate if he turned up at one's door to fix that leaky tap. Now there's the question of time and customers. At a gig, Mr Sting is able to have thousands of customers in the room at any one time. The plumber has only one. Additionally, Mr Sting can generate money in more than one place at one time [i]and in his absence[/i] - e.g. when his music is played on the radio or TV or on countless gramophones up and down the country. Each of these 'sales' is microscopically less than he might charge to appear in one's front room but it all adds up. Thus, in any one hour, Mr Sting can generate more income than a plumber without his (Sting's) customers feeling they have been overcharged or sold short. If they're happy, he makes his money. Is he more important or valuable than the plumber? Not at all, for the plumber's customer is probably happier when his tap is fixed than someone who has just listened to a Sting song. But the plumber has only one customer who expects to pay about £40-80 for a fixed tap (ymmv) and he has competitors who keep prices low. OTOH Mr Sting has millions of customers he doesn't have to visit and isn't in a competitive market for identical services. So it's not a case that people are undervalued (bad thing) but that different circumstances create different results (good thing, unless insanity is to prevail) Hope this clears it up

[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1389372739' post='2333543'] I also enjoy jumping about, showing off, making noise and dressing up - its all part of performing, and its fun. [/quote] Quite right. And even when one has reached a state of musical accomplishment, performance issues such as strap height remain a vital matter of context. What is the point in executing a technically demanding passage when a simple drop kick or 'flying V' will rouse certain [i]specific[/i] audiences to greater heights of enthusiasm. Were it not that advancing age and deteriorating kneecaps preclude such showcraft, I should still mostly be airborne upon any stage I might grace. Unless it were a jazz gig, of course, in which case I might light my pipe, sit down with my back to the punters and smirk at the drummist. A rigid position on strap height, such motivating factors as might apply and the inherent 'integrity' of the low-slinger is the province of the hobbyist and second-class thinker. The bass player has too long been hobbled by reactionary nostrums. Let's get cool, people.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389361916' post='2333315'] The coolest thing you can do with a bass is actually learn how to play it in a musical fashion , not sling it round you ankles and look like you are trying to saw it in half with a plectrum. [/quote] Cooler than wearing a bass low is to sling it in a dumpster and take up the guitar.

It seems to me that the issue of sidemens' fees is a murky one. Was it not the case that Mr Matthew Fisher recently obtained 40% of the back royalties for Whiter Shade Of Pale even though his noodlings were clearly derived from a couple of Bach basslines? No matter; their Lordships gave him the thumbs-up. In any event, this whole copyright issue is occluded by issues of 'fairness' and 'appropriate reward'. But what's the alternative? A reversion to the system of patronage, where authors, artists and musicians solicited funds from the Great and Good? Or from Princes and Dukes? Or The Church? It would be amusing to watch a queue of BassChat's Godless, lefty musos trying to hawk their ditties at the Vatican's back-door. I imagine His Holiness would enjoy having the handwringing bleaters on the end of a string: 'Well, yore Majesty, you gave all that cash to Michelangelo and ... er ... Vivaldi. Bung us a ten-spot and I'll do you a song about how awful the world is.' The current system is eminently democratic insofaras it rewards merit in direct proportion to the public's enjoyment. It should be extended to all aspects of life.

I can see why taste or 'ethics' might lead some to abhor relics. But the 'put the dings there yourself' argument is impractical for a number of reasons. For one thing, some of us dislike the look of a sparkly new instrument but are far too old to wait thirty years for patina to accrete. And what about buying a genuine old instrument? If one or a number of previous owners were responsible for the visible wear, does 'truth' dictate that one should refinish it? For me, it's one of those things that just aren't worth worrying about unless one is an assiduous but inexperienced collector of 'vintage' instruments.