skankdelvar

When my Gran died in the 70's, she left me £100, of which £19.99 went on a Woolies 'Kay' Spanish Nylon 6 string. After struggling for 6 months, I was on the point of giving up playing music when I borrowed the album 801 Live (a Phil Manzanera solo project). One of the tracks was a cover of Tomorrow Never Knows, which opens with a bass figure by Bill McCormick. (Perhaps it was another coincidence, but the album cover shows a Fender bass headstock...) This was the roundest, plummiest finest thing I'd ever heard and the hairs went up on the back of my neck. A few weeks later, some kid from school was flashing his Columbus P-copy to an admiring crowd. I knew I had to have one so I could do that TNK intro. Since then I've flipped and flopped between bass and (brief) periods on Rtm Gtr. Weirdly enough, I never learned that intro...

I am mostly liking pretty much anything before 1970. I am mostly not liking pretty much everything after 1970.

Only ever took one bass till part of the nut split off, 30 miles from home . Some gaffa tape fixed the prob short term. Since then I'd always take both. They sound fairly similar ( 2 passive Fender types) so no big issue. With different sounding basses, I reckon some sort of splitter / pre-amp / tone balance has to be the way forward, and there are bundles of good suggestions above.

Reminds me of the place where I was shopping like a basta*d for a guitar with cash in my pocket but was instantly slagged off for mentioning I'd just bought an amp off e-bay. Cue eruption from manager ("Where will you go for personal service if I go out of business, eh? Eh?") and started bad-mouthing me to another (embarrassed) customer. Wunjo's in Denmark St about 3 or so years ago. It's easy for us to get p*ssed off. But let's try and understand the problem and address it. Clearly there are good shops and bad shops, but our major complaint seems to be sniffy attitudes from staff. I see far fewer complaints here about stock levels, incompetence, lack of knowledge, repair turnaround times or excessively high prices. Is that because we just write these other issues off as not interesting enough to post about, whereas we feel a heightened sense of offence about insolence, impertinence and arrogance? (Well, if we do, then so we should). Is this "attitood" thing a problem exacerbated by the nature of specialist shops, where staff are more likely to be 'enthusiasts' or wannabes and less likely to be trained to the more rigorous standards demanded by general retailers such as Tesco? Do we also get similar lip from staff in, say, comic book stores, surf shops, outdoor goods etc? Maybe...you tell me... Or is it that specialist stores involve more sitting around behind counters - something you rarely see these days in conventional High St shops, where staff are out on the floor with nowhere to hide and fester? Is it the case that guitar shop staff generally can't tell the difference between a time-waster and a serious buyer? Or that they can't, after a short conversation, distinguish between a 'browser with intent' and a tyre-kicker? Have they reached the stage where anyone who walks through the door is 'The Enemy'? I'd submit that most or all of the above apply, and this is because many guitar shops are often: * Owned or managed by people without a traditional retail background, who see themselves as being in the music business, not the retail business. * Lacking in time, resources and funds for staff training * Known for hiring assistants for their specialist product knowledge, cheapness or image, not for their sales or interpersonal skills * Places where desperate boredom alternates with peaks of stress when a punter walks through the door. I suspect that many of the offending individuals don't even know they're being offensive, because they haven't been trained to deal with customers. They're just behaving towards you as if you were stranger approaching them on the street. I'd offer the following suggestions to any shop owners who may be reading this - whether you're a chain or a 1.5 man band: * The key to success is handling customers and generating sales. You are not in business to be an guitar expert. You are in business to make a profit * Your staff are the means of generating increased turnover and profits. But you're more interested in getting or keeping a Fender agency. Why skimp on staff quality? * Hire staff for their sales ability and interpersonal skills * Do not hire staff for their encyclopaedic knowledge of Gibsons or the ability to shred like a mother. They should be more interested in sales than in the stock. * Do not sit behind the counter. It's a barrier. Only go there to ring up a sale or get an item from the rack. * Hire your staff out of places like WH Smith, Woolworth and train them in basic product knowledge - that's all they need. * When something gets too complicated or specialist, the staff should escalate the customer to you, the expert. * Hire more women. Hire people with a mature approach If you're a musical instrument retailer and all this seems unreasonable or too expensive or time-consuming, let me offer a counter-view: When did you last go into a Car dealership and find the sales reps too busy driving the cars round the lot because they all want to be Lewis Hamilton? When did you last walk into M&S, only to be insulted for not knowing the difference between Salt Beef and Corned Beef? When did you last go into PC World only to be asked "Are you going to be buying that today?" There's a reason why they don't do it. It's unprofessional and counter-productive and puts you out of business. And they realise that the customer is King / Queen. Fact. But if you, the shop owner, read this thread and think "Same old moans; we offer a local service, ten timewasters for every serious punter, grubby fingers, stupid questions, etc etc" well, don't worry, we won't trouble you for much longer. There will be less threads like this in the future because your business will go t*ts-up and we'll be shopping at the 30% or so that get it right.

[quote name='steve-soar' post='359999' date='Dec 21 2008, 12:30 AM']Hello, I'm Conway Twitty.[/quote] Is that rhyming slang for totally lagered by half past midnight? Or is it like a sort of secret Masonic phrase initiating me into the Finnbass cult? :ph34r: ( No need to sell me - I like the Finns. Great vodka and lots of tasty reindeer).

[quote name='aceuggy' post='359757' date='Dec 20 2008, 06:13 PM']Yeah ok, but apart from them? [/quote] No, that's it. No one else. Unless I think of anyone, and I'll let you know

I thought I was alone...

[quote name='steve-soar' post='359774' date='Dec 20 2008, 06:36 PM']This being Basschat, I'm not suprised that this has turned into a "my dad's bigger than your dad's" contest. [/quote] Don't you mean this being Basschat, it starts as a reasoned discussion and someone violently disagrees. It escalates into a "My knob's bigger than your knob" contest, then tBBC comes along and blows everyone into the weeds with his almost supernaturally scatalogical prose. Several people are very offended by his comments. Someone suggests 'ignoring' offensive posts. It then evolves into a slagging of the moderators because they cautioned someone on another thread for a comment that was far less scurrilous. A concerned member drags it back to the original topic, but it's too late. Savage recriminations ensue. Then someone else gets the serious ar$e, some other geezers start yelling '"Calm down, he's not worth it", Bilbo tips up and lays some calming jazz vibes on us, Mrs Tinman posts something very sweet. The Mods cop on and urge restraint, it settles down, then someone starts it up again, then it all goes quiet till the next time. I've only been coming here since July, but I've got it sussed now. Edit to say: ...and I love it!

I thang yew...

Ah well...if they're a pack of bastids, then perhaps not so reasonable a deal...

"Semi-set neck". Priceless

[quote name='Merton' post='359426' date='Dec 20 2008, 10:35 AM']...Going to change the stock valve AFTER the gig so I can get a better idea of the "tweakability" too...[/quote] Ah, the old Valve Tweaking.... A Slippery Slope. ...before you know it, you'll be selling a kidney for an NOS Mullard.

[quote name='4000' post='359675' date='Dec 20 2008, 04:12 PM']...What will eternally baffle me is why anyone thinks "their" genre is better....[/quote] "My" genre is better. Jazz and metal pale by comparison and you know why? It's better because [b]I[/b] like it. I defy anyone not to succumb to the movement known as North Asian Throat Funk and the sublime 9.5-string counterpoint lines of the god-like Nanki-Poo Ming. If you don't get it, you're sub-everything and next up for the firing-squad in my head.

Just to reinject some controversy: Lots of ([i]insert genre here[/i]) bass players use ([i]insert mfr here[/i]) in order to get ([i]insert quality here[/i]) but they're wrong because ([i]insert mfr here[/i]) are known for having much more ([i]insert quality here[/i]). Anyone ever notice that ([i]insert genre here[/i]) players are all [i](insert derogatory comment here).[/i] And [i](insert obscentity here)[/i]

[quote name='aceuggy' post='359595' date='Dec 20 2008, 02:13 PM']+1 to that. Who would you be trying to kid, other than yourself![/quote] Errr... sniffy gear-head musos at auditions, audiences, gear-snob promoters, prospective agents, e-bay bidders, thieves, gullible youths with wads of cash .

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='359275' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:23 PM']the formal language of music[/quote] Gtr: "It's in A" Bass: "It's in G" Gtr: "No it isn't" Keys: "It's in G on the album" Gtr: "Not on the live album" Singer: "I haven't got the live album" Bass: "Well it starts with a G" Gtr: " Yes, but then it modulates to A" Keys: "That's not a G, it's an F#m" Bass: "So it's not a modulation, it's the relative minor" Gtr: "The relative minor of G is Em" Bass: "But you said it was in A" Gtr: "It is" Keys: "Where does it go after the A?" Bass: "If you want it in A, I could put a Capo on" Gtr: "Capo on a bass? You can't do that" Keys: "McCartney did" Bass: "Well, [i]you[/i] could put a capo at the 3rd fret and play it as an E" Gtr: "F*** off, people will think I'm a total amateur if I put a capo on" Rehearsal room manager: "5 minutes lads" All: "Oh b******s. Let's do Johnny B Goode" Gtr: "In C?" Bass: "No, it's in Bb" Ad inf.

[quote name='MartyBRebelMC' post='359240' date='Dec 19 2008, 10:34 PM']correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am) but most fenders post CBS were appallingly made (hence then neck pocket).[/quote] You're right - (up to a point .) A number (and opinion might have it - many) of Fenders made during the CBS period were less than satisfactory, [i]compared to the best of the 50's production runs[/i]. In their own right and judged against contemporary standards some were worse than mediocre. Some were OK. And some were very good. But we're talking about a very large number of instruments here, compared to the numbers produced in the 50's. As documented by Fender insiders, CBS boosted output by a significant factor, and this led to some 'issues', both in terms of QC and product development. So - bigger numbers and some shift in standards might equal a larger total number of 'dogs'. Clearly there's a bit of Voodoo about pre-CBS, but OTOH - where there's smoke... Nevertheless, the general view seems to be that what we might loosely term 'range wide production standards' have improved since CBS sold Fender in the 80's. The weakness in Fender's range would now seem to be the Mexican Fenders, which, IMO, compare unfavourably, VFM-wise to the Squier 'equivalents'. In reality, 50's Fender, CBS Fender and the Fender of today are three completely different companies manufacturing variations on several relatively unchanged designs. It's not unreasonable to seek (and probably find) some variations in outcome.

Indeed it does. Shipping not unreasonable either. Bit weird, this being 'positive' thing. Got far too used to threads about faked up POS 'Vintage 1939 Custom RARE Fender Percussion Biss - You try world class, no rip you off, drives superb".

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='358929' date='Dec 19 2008, 04:20 PM']However, I've also come across people who, when you say to them 'what scale are you using there?' or 'are you playing a diminished on the F?' or, 'I think you are going to the IV too early', or even 'here's a chord chart for this song' have not got the slightest idea what I am talking about.[/quote] That would be me then...well, I might recognise a chord chart. As long as it's in the key of A.

Sorry, no, me neither. Are they any good?

That's rare. Only ever seen one before, at that place down in Farnham. It used to belong to the guy out of "The Guess Who" and was used on 'American Woman". With provenance, it was about £1600, but that's 5 years ago. Another one that slipped through the net

Lovely bit of work...that's got me thinking...and with that F Mustang logo....... GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

No helpful suggestion, sorry - I just use whatever's in the room. If it ain't loud enough and it's farting out, I just ask the others to turn down. Not too worried about tone, etc in rhsal rooms: * Because the acoustics are usually crap, and the louder you get, the plankier it usually sounds * It's only a rehearsal This approach allows you to focus your hard-earned cash on your gigging rig

Alex - thanks for posting that - an interesting take. But I think yer man Ed is flying way above the rest of us. As a long-term user of both types, I'd characterise them as follows: P = Dum J = Doo

About 1982 I got asked by a 'mate' to take a 3 bolt Jazz into Macari's (I think) and flog it while he waited in the car. Got a couple of hundred for it and gave him the cash, which 10 mins later went straight up his nose. Turned out later, it wasn't his to sell, and he'd conned me into being the 'face' in the deal. Apropos of nothing, the left-overs of the snotty, two-handed tapping 'assistants' of 20 yrs ago are now greying, obnoxious old managers. Think of that with pleasure, next time you're being patronised up Denmark St...