skankdelvar

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1475073439' post='3142822'] Staff in music shops haven't changed much in 60 years. [/quote] I dunno about 60 years but I know from personal experience they've certainly been of - shall we say - [i]variable quality[/i] since 1973. The very first time ever I went into a music shop the guy eventually looks up from the organ he's playing, eyes me up and down in a disparaging fashion and says '[i]What?[/i]'

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1475074654' post='3142839'] This is the part of the puzzle that I feel is missing... [url="https://www.amazon.com/British-Rock-Guitar-Mo-Foster/dp/0857160001/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475074300&sr=1-1&keywords=mo+foster"]British Rock Guitar ...[/url] [/quote] Interesting. That's the third version of Mo's book, first published as '17 Watts?' then 'Play Like Elvis'. I assume he's expanded it, adding some new stuff to move the story into the 1970's. Either way it's a corker. So good that on one occasion I bought three copies and gave them to the guys with whom I was in a band. Absolutely recommended. [color=#faebd7].[/color]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1474999593' post='3142206'] I'd love to have been a fly on the wall while you were thinking that one up! [/quote] I'm thunderstruck anyone noticed. Let's get it up front, I had some hard times with that pun.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1474933395' post='3141685'] the Beatles were far more influenced by American music as were the Stones than anything the Brits were doing, one of the great musical ironies is that the Brits took black American music, repackaged it and were able to sell it back to them, because they were white [/quote] While the Shadows may have influenced the Beatles at [i]some[/i] point we should note that Lennon, McCartney and Harrison were already gigging as the Quarrymen the same month that Cliff Richard was first introduced to the Drifters (later The Shadows) and about four months before their first single release in August 1958. A partial Quarrymen setlist from one of their earliest gigs includes songs by Eddie Cochrane, Gene Vincent, Elvis Presley, Little Richard and skiffler Lonnie Donegan. By contrast the Drifters originally came from a skiffle background which drew more on folk, blues and trad jazz.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1474905933' post='3141423'] There are some cool covers of Beatle songs. <snip> [/quote] It was a cover of a Beatles song that got me into bass playing. Heard this song, looked at the album sleeve and thought 'What's that thing?'. My course was set. [media]http://youtu.be/UkGXUn0Kuuw[/media]

Nice one, chap. And many more to come!

[quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1474833855' post='3140951'] I don't see what's wrong with a band churning out a set of old stuff if people are happy to pay to see it. I am sure that the vast majority who have seen ACDC on the current tour had a great time. Is there any reason why a band should stop touring just because they have been around for 40 years?[/quote] No reason at all. People who want to go see them can go see them. People who don't, won't. As for Axl, I was prepared to be disappointed - but by all accounts he did a good job. [quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1474833855' post='3140951']What I object to is the rip off ticket agencies that make tours like this nearly impossible to get to see without paying double the price. That's a whole different matter. [/quote] That is the rub. And the ticket face value price ain't dirt cheap either.

I think there were a number of factors which contributed to the 'common experience' thing. * There was a deeper divide between the musical tastes of younger British people and the rest of the public. The musical generation gap was between teens and everyone else. For example, my parents though in their early 30's aligned themselves - as did their friends - with performers like Sinatra, Glenn Miller and Cleo Laine. Younger people sought out their 'own music'. * Among teens there was a commonality of understanding simply because anyone interested in pop music was getting the same information from the same very limited number of sources:[list] [*]Two TV stations [*]Three BBC Radio channels - one for speech, one (evenings only) for arts / educational and one for 'easy listening' music. [*]A dodgy radio signal from Luxembourg. [*]A couple of weekly music papers [*]Occasional references in the national press to established musical celebrities e.g. Jerry Lee Lewis, Liberace [/list] Most of these sources either severely restricted their coverage of 'teen' pop music or condemned it as 'outrageous' or 'juvenile'. On the occasions when media opinion was positive the result was a relatively limited number of performers getting the most coverage. The outcome being that nearly all young people were hearing the same things about the same artists at the same time, resulting in a concentration or commonality of interest. * The cost of record buying declined steeply at at time when young people began to have greater disposable income. It was now easier to build a record collection. * Compared to today, listening to music was less of a solitary pursuit. It was common to buy a record and take it round to a friend's house, there to listen in an exclusive little group. In many instances, even the act of [i]buying[/i] a record from a shop was undertaken as a group or social activity. So: tightly defined group of consumers, badge of identity, lots of interest all focused on the same fairly narrow range of performers, money in your pocket and music getting cheaper, listening to music with one's friends.

Cliff on his departure (posted 4 days ago) [media]http://youtu.be/OKjCTgLGCe4[/media]

Hendrix, Cream, Motorhead, Nirvana, The Cribs, Manics, Green Day, Blink 182, The Police, Stray Cats, Sugar / Husker Du, Supergrass, Fun Lovin' Criminals, Lemonheads, Grand Funk Railroad, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, early Rory Gallagher / Taste, Reverend Horton Heat, James Gang / early Joe Walsh. I've left Rush out because of the necessity for double-necks, keyboards, helium vocals etc

Astonishing bit of work, Sir. Congratulations!

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1474588485' post='3139118'] I suspect we may have tumbled [/quote] Nice. [i]Very[/i] nice.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474586626' post='3139109'] I may be misremembering this, but was the collecting folder a dark blue fold out affair? If so, I think I still have mine somewhere - incomplete obviously! [/quote] I think the dark blue fold out was 1990(?). The 1970 folder - which I never got - looked like this: [quote name='blue' timestamp='1474595423' post='3139127'] <snip> Bruce seems to know Paul pretty well. Blue [/quote] Indeed so. Our legal people have been 'in discussions' since the mid 1970's when I sued Mr Springsteen for plagiarising the main hook from my single '(Maybe) It's A Swarm Of Nuns'.

Esso 1970 world cup collectors' coins was the thing in my day. Terrible scenes of playground bribery, extortion and savage physical violence. What made it all so horribly pointless was the actual competition was a total wash-out for The England. [i]Back home they'll be thinking about us When we are far away Back home they'll be really behind us In every game we play They'll share every goal we are scoring Out there we will still hear them roaring And we'll give all we've got to give Then we'll slink off with our tails between our legs after we've got Bobby Moore out of that Bogota jail and cop some serious abuse [/i] [i]from the folks back home[/i] [size=3]Trad: arr Beckenbauer, Seeler, Müller[/size]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1474573036' post='3138972'] Ask All-American hero Bruce Springsteen which one influenced him the most. [/quote] As The Boss is not answering my calls at the moment I'll have to ask you. Which one influenced him the most?

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474569571' post='3138921'] Fair enough Skank. Very well put as usual, although I still don't like analogies. I'm prepared to meet in the middle and agree that some [i]may[/i] experience some perceived benefit from being around at the time. If they think it gives them some added insight, fair play to them. I just don't believe that you [i]had[/i] to be there to understand it. [/quote] Let us agree [i]in general[/i] that when assessing historic events at a later time one's understanding [i]may[/i] be enhanced by having been a participant in those events

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1474561060' post='3138846'] Rock and Roll and blues origins are in the States. What is amazing is the fact that our appreciation for our own stuff is nowhere near the respect and appreciation you guys have for it. If it weren't for you guys I wouldn't know anything about the blues. Blue [/quote] It's funny, only last night I was thinking about the British Invasion and ruminating on the Blues component. One could argue that the early wave of British neo-bluesers (Stones, Animals, Them) are of equal importance to the Beatles in the wider musical scene. There's a sort of progression from weedy Chuck Berry covers to purists like Clapton through the Zeppelin to the whole 60's-70's-80's US rock scene. The whole Blues / Blues rock / Rock intersection thing is fascinating. Without - say - The Stones we might never have had Aerosmith at one end of the spectrum or Dr Feelgood at the other. The latter's importance to the USA is perpetuated by the fact that the Ramones, Talking Heads and other CBGB bands all listened avidly to the Feelgoods' first album. Then the Clash listened to the Ramones first album. And so it goes.

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1474560411' post='3138841'] I remember lusting after an HH rig [/quote] Funnily enough, I bought one of those HH rigs in the late 80's. It definitely had glowing greenishness, but an absolute monster to get into a hatchback and not actually [i]that [/i]loud. Sold it to a guy named Ricky who later informed me that his girlfriend of the time had flown into a rage and pushed it out of an upstairs window along with all his instruments.

Guy at school had a Columbus which he ran through an HH Combo the size of a washing machine. My, how we envied him. It was the mid-70's and a rig like that was a wonder to behold.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474510332' post='3138505'] Sorry Skank, I generally love your posts and I rarely get through one without having a good chuckle, but we'll have to agree to differ here. I'm often mystified by attempts to assert a position through comparison to another different set of circumstances. You may well be right about the experiences of WW2, but it's not what we're talking about here. It's The Fab Four - not The Fuhrer! [/quote] [b]analogy[/b] [i]noun[/i] * a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification. * a correspondence or partial similarity. * a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects Quite clearly Beatlemania is not WW2. I think most people understand where I'm going. Being in the middle of something gives one a different perspective than viewing it from afar, whether in time or geography. [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474510332' post='3138505']Blue is asserting, as he has done many times before, that 'you had to be there to understand how big/influential The Beatles were" and I do not believe that to be the case. I've read, I've watched, I've listened. I honestly DO get it. I was also alive at the time, but I don't think that has a bearing on my understanding. [/quote] We're not talking about any understanding you may or may not have as an individual. This isn't about you specifically; it's about a general principle. It is the broad proposition that participation in certain events gives an additional dimension to understanding those events. (This participation does not necessarily enhance understanding; it may even lead to a fundamental [i]misapprehension[/i]). The expression 'you had to be there' is a (debatably over-simplistic) summation of this proposition. Understanding the context in which people form their opinions is useful when attempting to understand those opinions. Different contexts produce different experiences which produce different opinions. What's particularly controversial or 'incorrect' about that? [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474510332' post='3138505']I read on Basschat far more than I would ever post and for the most part find it all very interesting indeed. However, I almost dread clicking on anything Beatle/Hohner related for seeing the same tired, almost verbatim, comments from our friend in Milwaukee. I'm all for free speech, but not the same speech every time! It's a real shame, because I love reading about The Beatles, as I do about WW2. [/quote] If Blue's posts irritate you there's no need to call him out on it. Just ignore him, either by using the 'ignore' button thoughtfully provided by the forum team or by doing it the old fashioned way, i.e. not reading his posts. For myself, I welcome his oft-expressed and un-moving position, not least because it provides a fixed point in an ever-changing world. It's like a navigational beacon, if you will. Were he suddenly to espouse Herman's Hermits as the [i]ne plus ultra [/i]of musical endeavour, I'd be - in short order - transfixed, apprehensive and desolated.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1474488085' post='3138405'] And I believe Beatlemania hit us Yanks differently than you guys. Because of size we had more TV, radio, magazines and concert venues as well. To me they were bigger than life. Blue [/quote] Indeed so. It's far too easy for us Brits to underestimate the impact that the Beatles had on America. For one thing, the indescribably appalling Freddie and The Dreamers scored a US #1 off the back of it. If that's not proof, I don't know what is. I'm telling you now, it was total madness.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1474443317' post='3137996'] But that is exactly what you are saying and you can't defend that position because it's untenable. Not to mention bloody irritating! [/quote] I don't think it's untenable to suggest that living through Beatlemania gives one a clearer personal understanding of the contemporary impact of Beatlemania than someone who did [i]not[/i] live through Beatlemania. For example, I'm fairly interested in WW2 and have access to far more information today than did those who were living through it at the time. But my knowledge does not extend to understanding what it felt like or to participate in a flow of events without knowing the outcome. I know why Hitler halted his tanks at Dunkirk but I do not know (as my parents did) what it felt like to actually be strafed by a German 'tip and run' fighter-bomber or how it felt to wake on June 6th to learn that the invasion of Europe had started but also to have to accept that it might fail. In that respect my understanding of WW2 is different by virtue of being one step removed and knowing what happened in the end. In any event, there's no point in getting irritated by other peoples' opinions. We all think what we think - and what we think is based on our accumulated (and differing) experiences. Which is a good thing, IMO.

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1474411363' post='3137905'] Interesting chord at the beginning, apparently... [/quote] Fadd9 with D on the bass, apparently. And a bit of piano [media]http://youtu.be/2wbNaEXmyrw[/media]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1474400743' post='3137776'] I suppose then we'd have to keep Madge? [/quote] No hardship, really. Good amusement value and comes as a twofer with Gillian Anderson.

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1474400019' post='3137765'] Please don't forget old ginger nuts herself, Anne Robinson. That the Americans lurve (sic) these "celebrities" is fine, the problem is when they eventually send them back to us. We really ought to have a no returns policy for this sort of thing. [/quote] Indeed so. It would be entirely feasible for the American government to designate an area of high-altitude Arizona desert as a British Celebrity 'Boneyard' rather like the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, last resting place for several thousand obsolete aircraft. [color=#ffffe0].[/color]