TrevorR

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1452695698' post='2952520'] I almost hesitate to point it out, but I believe those songs were by The Cure. An honest mistake, I'm sure. [/quote] Slip of the finger... the original post pointed out that I'd never listened through to a full album by either the Smiths AND the Cure. I'd meant to reference them in the sentence too but clearly never quite did. I'm going to decide to plame the vagaries of my iPad keyboard rather than my advancing age... honest gov!

This thread has actually throw up a number of really interesting issues. We will all have swathes of music that we've never bothered/felt the need/been attracted/had the time to check out. There is so much music out there there's just not enough time. There will be lots of reasons why we do or don't listen to artists or genres - all subjective, all just as valid for each of us. Sometimes we listen just because it catches our ear, sometimes we listen to actively educate ourselves, sometime we listen just to find out what we do and don't like. I think that's the great thing about music - it's a broad art form, not a set syllabus. Most of the artists/genres I've got in knowing blind spots I've not explored because for one reason or another they haven't done it for me. And the reasons can be manifold. To take my original examples, like the Smiths. Loved Marr's playing, couldn't abide Morrissey - sufficiently that, bar the odd single, they were an effective no go area for me.[i] [...a little post production drop-in/overdub here... [/i]Same thing with The Cure.[i]] [/i]Apart from Lovecats and Friday I'm In Love they just didn't catch my ear. [i][[/i]In fact, I'm always surprised when I see how globally huge and popular the Cure are as they just weren't on my musical radar as such. [i]...another little tape splice][/i] Similarly the Velvets, the Fall and the Doors. Just not for me. Others I have avoided for different reasons. Modern rap and r'n'b tends to be just a bit too... well unpleasant... for my personal tastes and finding the few artists I might like amongst the ones I probably won't is probably too much effort. Other genres I'll find my little artist niches and stick within these - like with modern (90s+ dance music) I know what I like (in my wardrobe). Elsewhere there are artists I just don't know who I must get round to exploring some time but have never quite found the time or impetus... Another form of blind spot. I never properly checked out Motown, Stax and Philly beyond stuff on the radio until I was in my very late 20s. Of course, it's perfectly possible to enjoy (your) music without having an appreciation of the heritage and history of music. It's nice when folks do delve deeper but it doesn't mean they don't love the music they listen to any less for know knowing that history. Some will delve and some won't. And of course, some are closer to that historical context than others. And some will never understand that context on the same visceral level. I was just thinking the other day when Rock Around The Clock came on the car radio. "Try taking a modern teenager, show them a photo of Bill Haley and play them Rock Around The Clock and then try to convince them that this musician and record was so radical and dangerous when it came out that it sparked off public affray and vandalism..." Similarly that Elvis was deemed too corrupting to impressionable young minds... Nah, mate! Your having a larff!

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1452689714' post='2952424'] Hopefully not, but I bloody well will if it carries on in this vein -- when accusations of lying start flying, it's time to calm the f*** down and take a deep breath. The OPs question was a very simple one that (if I'm reading it correctly) was about bands/genres you have been hitherto unfamiliar with. Let's see if we can keep it in that vein without any crap being thrown around, shall we? And please bear in mind that just as not liking a particular band doesn't automatically make them crap, it also doesn't automatically equate to a lack of [i]respect[/i] for them. Sometimes not liking something just means, y'know, not liking it. [/quote] +10,000!

And if the next rehearsal is full of snarky comments perhaps a quiet and gentle word with each member afterwards to say, "Look, the guy's settling in and learning the set and we're getting used to him. It'll take a little time to gel like before but all the snippy comments (from everyone) aren't helping. Any chance you could reign it back while we all get back up to speed. Realise it's a bit frustrating. We're all just trying to work on getting it right. Thanks, really appreciate it."

Blue, when you say "Megadeath" repeatedly do tell me that you were being ironic for comedy purposes... If not... Megadeath? You sure? ;-)

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1452630390' post='2951902'] OBBM or Award Session. No contest. [/quote] Yes, Award's Cleartone cables are also very good and very reasonably priced.

I've never heard a a whole album by either the Cure or the Smiths... The occasional tune on the radio but never a whole album... Nor by the Fall. I have heard albums by the Doors and the Velvet Underground but only sufficient to know that I don't need to hear any more albums by them.

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1452546559' post='2951117'] A last and [u][i]essential[/i][/u] point is setting the input level correctly, if you don't, the compressor won't work properly. Early models will just have a clip light whereas later versions have the 'traffic light' style input meter. Set it just below clip (never mind the old keep the pre down and use the master volume, doesn't work the same on a graphic Trace) which may mean setting it above 7 but thats normal on one of these even if it does seem odd. Hope that helps. Matt [/quote] +1 for the tip on setting the input level right. The old trick should work of setting the input gain at 0 and then playing as hard as you can whilse increasing the gain knob. Do this until it only just starts to flash the clip light on the loudest notes. Then back off the gain knob a tiny smidge so that the clip light doesn't light and you should have pretty much the optimum match between your guitar signal and the input gain stage of the amp.

Just heard it on BBC Radio 2. Gosh. So sudden and such a loss. There will never be another Bowie in so very many ways.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1452388639' post='2949592'] Dave /OBBM. . . . every time. [url="http://bassic-bits.co.uk/"]http://bassic-bits.co.uk/[/url] [/quote] Oh, and if you want something obscure that's not listed on his site drop him an email coz ha can probably do it for you for a song anyway!

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1452367988' post='2949368'] Dave, goes under the forum name of Obbm [/quote] I was going to second this thought but having looked down the thread I think I am going to have to "fifth" it instead. Top bloke, top cables, unbelievably reasonable (in truth be told, low) price.

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1452461302' post='2950191'] I fell in love with the 5 string many moons ago. Check out some of Bela Fleck's stuff. [/quote] Check out his Mrs too, Abigail Washburn. Top player, esp when she was in Uncle Earl. Great band!

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452432937' post='2949856'] He's a good player, and was a good player from the first track on the first album. He's used lots of different basses over the years (Ricks, Wals, Kubickis, Peaveys) but was favouring Aria SB models at the time, which are very toppy, aggressive sounding basses. Play that line fingerstyle on an SB & that's what it sounds like. [/quote] I'd second that emotion Rhys. Played an Aria SB700 for years (still got it) and it really did have that kind of punchy, middly sound when you pushed it and really dug in. Whether that is the real bass (my vote - as to there being some slips, remember it was in pre Pro Tools days) or a play along it goes to show what a great bass line Rio is!

I've got the Pro Tune app and it seems pretty good to me. Love using OnSong for chord sheets and PDFs. I control it with a Bluetooth foot pedal. Very handy.

Kate Mossman is a properly good writer. Hadn't realised that she was now a staffer and editor at the New Statesman. Always enjoy reading her stuff.

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1452335414' post='2948925'] Hmmm, I thought you were going to say that once you'd put both basses inside it you didn't have the strength to carry the thing! [/quote] Bilbo hasn't opened the case and tried it out yet. With a Wal and a 7 string in there I look forward to next week's "I'm REALLY getting old" thread...

[quote name='BeeBop' timestamp='1451693879' post='2942630'] do you have any idea of how good this image is ...its nearly perfect centre focus is f***ing amazing ...i can feel the threads in my hand and the light reflection is perfect love the slate grey back ground with the gold complimenting the silver ... well done my son this is good work .... oh and yes your correct in your thinking for tip , ring and earth [/quote] I think you also should have mentioned the beautiful use of depth of field too. The tip of the jack and the end of the cable clamp are perfectly, tastefully out of focus. Great looking bokeh on the far background too. Subtle but really giving the feeling of distance.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452375066' post='2949450'] Not very well, no. ...Most of the music I grew up listening to & learning to play to was fairly complex (progressive rock, jazz fusion) but I was able to listen to the stuff once or twice & then play it... ... I play more guitar these days as I find it more satisfying. And I don't know what I'm doing on guitar either. ... [/quote] Wow, you must be blessed with a particularly good ear and note memory. I know a lot of decent players would really struggle in that sort of situation.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452370612' post='2949390'] No, I don't know the names of the notes of a scale and where they are on the fretboard. My ears are pretty good. I probably wouldn't like any of the bands you've played in, and I wouldn't play a blues of any sort because I f***ing hate blues. I didn't dep, I was never interested in doing that sort of thing, largely because the sort of bands that usually require deps play the sort of music I don't like. [/quote] This is an interesting question. Don't dismiss the "Blues in E" question either as the phrase is just a shorthand for "a playing situation where someone wishes you to play in a particular key or play a particular note...". Another perhaps more explicit example would perhaps be where you and others are working on a new song (non specific genre of your own choosing) and, say, the guitarist says... " Here's an arrangement idea I'd like to try on the last two bars of the prechorus - Eb to C# minor I thought it would be cool for the bass to do a couple of semi-chromatic runs - F# F Eb then Bb C C#..." Or "How's about on the last two choruses we take it up a couple of semitones, so instead of Ab Eb C#m F we'd do C F Ebm G? Give the ending a bit of a push..." I would have thought that with no way to mentally ground the changes prior to playing them would be tricky and leave you swooping around the frets for a bit to work out where the bassline has moved to. I know I've been in situations where the song I had learned was pushed up or down a few semitones by the singer in a way that blew any fret patterns and muscle memory out of the water. Without the ability to cross out the chords on the chord sheet and write the new ones in and then apply the changes quickly to the fretboard I know I would have been royally stuffed.

Congrats Mr Zarn! Have fun with it!

I use [url="https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/miscellaneous-amplifier-accessories/markbass-mark-stand-for-combo-or-speaker-cabinet?gclid=Cj0KEQiA2b20BRDj4buduIG-y9EBEiQAhgMGFQ1ffoW5ZRrRs7Q33b53nowdbk3GBVO6NdqExZRMAkcaAtLA8P8HAQ"]this[/url] for my MB Traveler cabs... surprisingly effective... Only 25 quid... Works equally well with the cab portrait or landscape. Only photo I can find off hand...

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1452278718' post='2948516'] I've got all of those things, have done for years....but put a chord sheet in front of me and I'm screwed.. [/quote] Another thought... it might be worth practising playing along to (some relatively simple) chord sheets to put the above principles into practice... choose straightforward less complicated music - something like the Eagles springs to mind where there are a few min7 thrown in or a "101 rock songs chord book" where again there will only be a smattering or fancy chords. then try jamming along to the track using the chord sheet as a guide. You can then try boiling down more complicated chords into their less complex variations and try which passing notes and riff notes within the scale shape work and which don't. Then you'll start to get a feel for what will and won't work over a min7, 13th or dominant7 chord without having to sweat too much about the harmonic theory behind it. Of course, if you then want to delve into that theory a bit at some point then there's nothing stopping you in due course... But even if you don't you'll have learned how to busk a chord sheet. Another hint is first time through a chord sheet of an unfamiliar song keep it dead simple. There's no shame in just playing root notes while you get a feel of where the changes come in the line, then building on that by adding in simple intervals like 3rds, 4ths and 5th and trying out little runs and patterns and then adding in complexity as you start to feel more confident with the song.

All of the above...

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1452278718' post='2948516'] I've got all of those things, have done for years....but put a chord sheet in front of me and I'm screwed.....tell me we're going to jam in Eb minor or whatever and I can do it.....it's the knowing insinctively which notes make up the chord from just the chord name that I struggle with - yes I know the notes in the std major and minor triads but tell me to play a diminished chord or an augmented chord or a subtonic or supertonic or a thirteenth flat ninth or a lydian and I haven't a scooby doo. [/quote] Do you know the good thing? You don't have to! Most of the time if you take the basics of the root chord (without flattened fifths, sevenths etc) your ears and experience will let you know which notes work - esp in most rock/pop music. Get into the more esoteric jazz world's and it gets more complicated. There are a few rules to learn with Aug and dim chords where with the former the 5th goes up a semitone and the latter it goes down a semitone and the sevenths are all a bit weird. With most of the complex extended chords (in very bastardised lay mans terms) it is a normal major or minor chord with additional jazzy notes added in on top of the normal chord. With apologies to music theorists who will cringe at this... If you come across a, say, Ab minor with an added 9th approach it largely as a bog standard A minor chord and adjust your line/riff to correct any clashes that occur. That will get you more than enough into the ball park to use your ear to work out the nuances. It is a crude approximation but if you simplify the chords down then it will get you through 95% of the time. Try it!

[quote name='christofloffer' timestamp='1451996136' post='2945277'] ...i have a grasp of the fundamentals and i can play well enough for my needs... ...can play scales fine (not my favourite thing on guitar but i can do it) but i have no idea as to what key i am in until it sounds like a match. to find my place when playing along with someone i have to work my way up the neck until i find the right spot. if you ask me to fret an F for example on a given string i would look at you like a puppy who p****d the bed. what i do learn well is patterns, movement and sound. so i can memorise a scale by ignoring the notes and learning the pattern. then i can associate that with a style, so i have a bluesy pattern, or a spanish pattern. i can also learn little tricks with relative ease as a movement. i can learn some things, but they dont relate to the guitars, for example i know that the root, 3rd and 5th are good harmonics, but i dont know how that matches to a guitar... i ...so now i am at a musical wall that seems insurmountable. all i can do is learn tabs, and write and record my own stuff. playing in bands never works as everyone else gets along so much faster than me or talks about things i dont understand. the friend i am playing with at the moment is being patient but its a big issue as i cannot follow a change unless we have agreed before hand as to when, where and how to do it... i have been told that it sounds like a fairly autistic way of thinking, which does make sense but it doesnt really help. [/quote] Been thinking about the things you've said - and highlighted a few above. A few thoughts occur. First is, don't make a big thing about not being 100% on top of music theory - few of us are. Music theory is kinda like the rules of grammar for the language of music. I'm British, therefore like many, my theoretical knowledge of some of the deeper theory of grammar is a mystery to me. What's the pluperfect tense? Or a gerund? Or whatever. However, I can still communicate fluently and have learned enough of the grammar which suits my purposes. Some of it by learning and applying principles, some of it by working on memorising stuff (like spellings) and some is just subconscious. Look at music theory in that manner, work out what you want to use it for and them break up the little bits that help you do that into bite sized chunks and try to find a learning method that works for you. So what matters (to you)? Dots and sight reading? Forget it. Certainly at this stage. Not what's going to get you going in playing with others, jamming around a tune etc. The first basic would be having a better knowledge of the notes on the neck - for the first 7 frets - as others have said. Those will be the basic building blocks for a lot of things. Try different ways to get them to sink in... just going up each string fret by fret until it sticks... E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb, B, next string A, Bb, C, C#, D, Eb, E, next string D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, next string G, Ab, A, Bb, B, C, C#, D... over and over and over. Try flash card games... Write each note on a card and shuffle them. Flip a card and find the note and play it. Make it a game, see how long it takes to go through the pack. Flip a card and find all of that note on the first 7 frets... it all helps. Knowing (or even knowing most of) those notes will be an immeasurable step up. Find simple songs and download chord sheets - play the root notes along to the track - to give you more confidence... If someone says, "Right lets start a jam. Four chords. G, C, D and A minor." Then at least you can play those notes while you try to work out some more interesting runs and riffs to play between them. You're building on a building block. Next you could look at scales and invervals... You say you can play scales by shapes. Briliant! That's what most of us do most of the time (it's music theory in disguise). The two to focus on first are the major and minor scale shapes. By ear you'll already know the note that it sounds right to start and finish the scale on - that's the "root" note. If you are playing the major scale and the start/root note on your bass happens to be G - you are playing the G major scale (E string 3rd fret). Simple as that. Move it up a fret to the Ab note (E string 4th note) and you're playing the Ab major scale. Up another fret... A major. Start on C note and that's the C major... Then you cal look at the shapes in the scale that are the intervals. Play the 8 notes in the scale and give each a number starting with 1 up to 8 and you've just named the intervals! Or look at the shapes on the fret board... 3rd - up a string down a fret, 4th up a string, 5th up a string up two frets... etc Then look at how you can internalise those? Repetition and flash card games might be a good way. If you had a go at learining those bits little by little, one at a time you'd probably have as much music theory as a large majority or players, feel more confident and equipped to play with others and to follow songs and song sheets. You will have a really strong foundation and you will be playing. Any theory you happen to pick up over and on top of that is an absolute bonus! Hope those ideas help.