CameronJ

Not technically the best, but my Sandberg Electra VS4 is by far the cheapest of my three basses and yet it easily hangs with the other two for tone and playability. Admittedly I’ve spent a bit of money on it - had the neck de-glossed, added a passive tone control etc. but still...at its core it’s just a fantastic instrument. And it’s allegedly Sandberg’s budget line!

Looking good! It’s bigger than I thought it’d be. Said the actress to the bishop. I see the SpectraDrive making a cheeky appearance there...

Right, the Dunlop Flatwounds are on! Thought I’d give the fretboard a bit of a clean between string sets but it didn’t seem to need it. Really loving the added low mid thump the flats are giving me at every pickup setting. And of course they’re nice and easy on the fingers compared to the Roto Steels - not that the Rotos were particularly harsh but you get smooth comfort for free with flats, obviously. The tension isn’t vastly different from the Rotos and they have a decent amount of high end, giving me a nice clank when switching the preamp to active with the treble boosted. Very, very nice. So, at present my bass lineup is: Sandberg VM5 with Dunlop Stainless Steel Flats MTD Super 5 with Dunlop Superbright Nickel Rounds Sanberg Electra VS4 with LaBella 750N Black Nylon Tapes A lovely trifecta of tone machines!

It should be said also that many bass cabs which can’t get down to 30hz at volume aren’t that way because the manufacturer couldn’t be arsed. It’s a deliberate choice. The hardware is out there to be able to do it but pro musicians, mixing engineers and sound techs haven’t demanded it from their backline outside of very specific applications. I wonder why that is? The Barefaced Big Baby and Big Twin range are amongst a small group of cabs out there which contain components capable on paper of going that low at volume but that small group of cabs tend to have been designed to be in the ballpark of Full Range Flat Response. Blatant evidence of this being that Barefaced’s FR800 PA speakers are by Alex Claber’s own admission basically Big Baby 2’s with inbuilt power amps and DSP. BUT LETS NOT GET STARTED ON FRFR.

No, and no. Simply because the vast proportion of the sound of a bass (5 string or otherwise) which we enjoy lies well above 30-40hz in the frequency spectrum. Have a listen to the following videos and let us know if you still think the liberal addition of this to your bass guitar sound is of benefit to you in any playing situation. Take note that they are sine waves, meaning these tones have pretty much zero harmonic content or overtones. Note how, despite the volume of your speakers/headphones being set at a perfectly enjoyable and audible level for listening to other things (music, videos etc), these sine wave tones are relatively much more difficult to hear. “Why is that?” I hear you cry. I invite you to reread the thread and again take note of the several BCers who have attempted in vain to make clear the necessity of overtones relative to the fundamental in making notes audible. Especially the lowest notes. Yes, as a 5 string bassist we are losing something by not playing through a rig which can handle 30hz at gig volume. We’re losing a portion of our sound which not only makes mixing us more difficult but at the same time fails to increase our ability to be heard.

Gave Raven a set up last night (actually at about 3 in the morning) and now the word butter could be used to describe the playability, much to the chagrin of some of this parish . Truss rod was all good and the intonation was near enough spot on too so I didn’t mess with it. Just lowered the bridge saddles to taste, made sure there was no rattle up the fretboard and voila. Gonna get them Dunlop Flats on soon but I’ll spend a couple of hours today enjoying the lowered action with the Roto rounds.

You stole the witty retort right out of my mouth! This is true, however in keeping with the recent theme of true note fundamentals being massively important (or not, as the case may be) to the audibility of a given pitch, I feel it necessary to point out that an organ is one of the most overtone/harmonic rich instruments out there. Part of the reason why organ players spend such a great deal of time and money finding electronic keyboards capable of really accurately emulating that sound.

As a swift end to all this hypothesising, Barefaced let you trial their cabs for a period of time. Do that. Trial a BB2 and compare it to your other cabs at gigging volumes, with your basses, through your pedalboard. If you like what you hear then buy one and sell off your other cabs! Otherwise this is all just hot air taking up space on @ped‘s server

The point I was making about octavers was that the sound some of them produce relies more heavily on the fundamental note frequency than bass guitars do. Hence, for that specific use, you’ll see more tangible benefits to having a cab which can “really” produce 30hz and below at volume. The benefits of super low frequency extension in a bass guitar application aren’t nearly as great - proven by the millions of bassists out there who are happily able to hear their low notes on 5 string basses played through all sorts of cabs not rated anywhere near 30hz. And by those of us who hate it when we go to a gig and the bass tone is an indistinguishable “boom-boom-sub-sub” mess. We all know that in a gig situation if we are struggling to hear ourselves one of the quickest and most effective remedies is to turn up the Mid knobs a bit, sometimes even in conjunction with turning down the Low knob a bit. It is literal scientific fact that human ears are less sensitive to lower frequencies and more sensitive to higher frequencies. So with that in mind, why the obsession with super low frequency response as an aid to hearing your bass guitar? Again, I stress the word guitar so as to differentiate from synth sounds. I guarantee if you email Alex Claber he will inform you of the great dispersion characteristics of his Big Baby 2 and Big Twin 2 cabs. He absolutely won’t, however, attribute that great dispersion to the 30hz frequency response.

There we have it. @Al Krow The BB2 may well go down a few Hz lower than your VK210 (and indeed your Markbass combo) but, as has been covered by several folk in his thread, there’s more to producing a good sounding low note than how far down a line goes on a graph. I know you want to go to The Gallery to investigate further but we did that months ago - comparing the BB2 to the VK210 and the MB combo. I brought my MTD Super 5 and made plenty of use of my B string, after which we both agreed that the VK was producing (in our subjective opinions) a more pleasing tone than both the BB2 and the MB combo. The amp was flat throughout. It was apparent that the three cabs were voiced differently. Again, we were in agreement that the VK - the cab with the most present mids - sounded best (subjectively) with my 5 string bass...and we’ve come full circle to the importance of mids to a good bass guitar tone. I say bass guitar specifically because it is a harmonically complex instrument. Where the BB2 might be a more clear winner is when running sub-heavy sounds such as our octavers. A COG T16 or even a DOD Meatbox for example may well shake walls a bit more forcefully through a BB2 than through your Markbass combo. Those sorts of pedals put out quite a lot more true sub bass energy than a typical bass guitar, and with fewer overtones and harmonics, especially when the filter/tone controls are closed off. So my question to you is do you want a BB2 to improve your bass guitar sound, or do you want a BB2 to improve your subsynth bass octaver sound?

Are you therefore telling us that your mighty Markbass combo is unable to handle the low B on your 5 string basses? 🤔🧐

The best thing about this is that roasted flame maple neck!

Ah. I’m guessing seafoam has a bit more blue in the hue?

@GisserD there was a Sandberg Appreciation Society all along!

That's the point - if the knobs have clear markers on then you don't have to hold your bass up, or squint. To be fair I tend to use my ears/hands to feel for knob settings too but a visual aid can't hurt!

Those Umbos are sexy!

A couple of things: I think there must be some meaningful padding at any point where the guitar makes contact with the stand. Well padded leather could potentially look quite nice. Also, what’s the clearance between the bottom rest bars and the floor? Depending on the leaning angle and the shape of the instrument there may be some danger of the body scraping the floor. It looks pretty close from the look of the pictures.

On a side note, anyone tried flats on their VM (or PM?)

Nice job! That’s given me ideas about hydro-printing patterns onto Pedaltrains now...

I don’t actually have much personal experience of Rays first hand so as far as the tone of the Solo’d MM pickup I don’t have a particular frame of reference. What I will say though is that it isn’t only useful as a blending option with the P - it’s actually an incredibly useful sound in its own right. I’ve found myself playing along to tracks with a dense mix of instruments and soloing the MM has given me the perfect starting tone that cuts through the mix better than any other pup setting.

Ah, yes, I remember you saying about the colour not turning out exactly right! According to the notes on the Sandberg certificate, the colour of mine is “Violett Burst”. Yep, with two t’s. It definitely plays and sounds as good as it looks. Totally cured my desire for a 5 string P bass and more. Although a 5 string P-loaded Wingbass might be on the horizon at some point down the line. I’m gonna see if they can match the finish to my Sandberg! That would be so cool 😈

I’ve just realised, @mcnach, part of the reason for my purple wood grain bass GAS was seeing your Maruszczyk “JazzJake” custom. To be fair I was already GASing for that colour/wood combo but you added fuel to the flames

I shall call her Raven

Right. Based on my new Sandberg I’m afraid I have no choice but to change my Wingbass specs to match. Hopefully they can do a similar finish

This. I’ve got them on all of my basses - they’re the only strap I’ll use now.