CameronJ

I’d describe it more as robust debate than anger. Though I can see how it could be interpreted as anger at times...

See above. Used and B-stock deals do pop up. The Basschat Marketplace can’t possibly be the benchmark by which the popularity of PA gear is measured?! That said, I got my HD32a from the FS section here for considerably less than new price including fitted soft case and original box in as new condition. Shipped. The only reason the seller was moving it on was because he was no longer gigging due to health issues and therefore had zero need for a lot of the gear he’d put time into researching and eventually buying - I got a great deal. A casual eBay search has thrown up a pair of the exact monitors I use for even less per unit than I paid for mine - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123077341361 Gear4Music currently have a couple of brand new earlier model 735s priced at £739

I recall a charity gig I did a year or two ago with a couple of friends. The setup was me vocal looping beats and bass lines with my digital hardware, Friend A on acoustic guitar/odd vocal harmonies and Friend B on lead vocals. At the only rehearsal we had prior to the gig, I set up a small monitor aimed at Friend A’s head so he could hear everything I was doing and have the added security of a loud click. It was like pulling teeth. We’d get a third of the way through a song and he’d be woefully ahead of the beat...without realising was doing it until I’d call a halt to said song on the grounds that it was unbearable. Each time his response was, “Mate, I think your gear keeps speeding up?” The tragedy is that he’s possibly the best rhythm guitarist I know in terms of chordal theory and proficiency around the fretboard, but almost definitely the worst rhythm guitarist I know in terms of his ability to actually maintain rhythm. The clue is in the name. His tendency to push tempo is frustrating to the point that at times I’ve found myself opting out of collaborating with him, especially if I’m singing lead vocal for a song that requires a sustained low tempo. He’s since admitted awareness of his tendency to speed up and his justification for it is that “pushing the tempo a bit keeps it exciting and gets the audience going.” Not when I’m singing a mournful ballad!!!

Fair play, there no doubt are still situations where FRFR may not be the most practical solution. Also, point taken re: the borderline religious zeal with which my posts in particular were written! I was somewhat aware in the writing of some of my posts that they would come across that way. My only excuse being that it’s the byproduct of having finally acquired a rig that has genuinely ridden me of any amp related GAS. Now if only I could find the same nirvana with basses...

My statement was in itself a blanket one, my bad. I was primarily referring to the comments re: these high end monitors being unable to consistently match (and indeed outperform) traditional bass rigs for heft/tone etc. when the components inside them mean that in fact they can - quite comfortably. Your other points are fair and valid! If I audition for a band any time soon and the name on the headstock of my bass stops me from getting the gig then I’m clearly auditioning for the wrong band. Either that or my playing stinks. Which will be the real reason for me not getting the gig

This is fair. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Improving ones musicianship should always be a high priority, I agree. But the two aren’t mutually exclusive. The plus points for a good FRFR setup can make the whole gig that much more enjoyable - when we enjoy playing we tend to play better right? If band members are able to hear themselves better because of the angle of the monitor wedges they’ll play better and with fewer distractions. If band members are hearing themselves better they can afford not to have to turn up so loud, leading to less stage volume and, as a byproduct, less bleed into stage mics. Whoever is in charge of the mix now has less to worry about. Everyone is a little less stressed. All of these factors are huge in small gig environments. A monitor alone isn’t going to get the band more gigs but the knock on effect of a well implemented monitoring system might. Of course people care about how tight the band is, how good your set is and the quality of the vocalists but to say that the quality of your sound in a small venue isn’t important or that people don’t care is a nonsense. If anything it matters more in the smaller venues because the audience are being sonically blasted at much closer range. Most audience members may not care about the nuances in tone between a P bass vs a J bass but they’ll definitely appreciate being able to hear everything clearly without being uncomfortably slammed by SPL. BTW I’m not in insinuating that your bands are guilty of this, just making a general point . Nor do I have a vested interest in getting you to sell all your amps and cabs in favour of going the monitor route. I do, however, feel the need to offer another side to the argument when blanket dismissive assumptions are made about FRFR without first hand experience! And we both know that me joining a band would be incredibly impractical given my schedule but if I could join a gigging band my current setup would make the whole process that much easier.

I fear you may have hit the nail on the head here.

I’ve got a Shure MV88 which is a stereo condenser that plugs directly into the lightning port of an iPhone or iPad. It draws power from the device itself and has internal DSP with a number of settings you can edit within the Shure Motiv app. You can change the recording pattern from mono to stereo (including adjustment of the stereo field,) add compression, enable wind reduction, apply EQ etc. There’s a setting for recoding in high-SPL environments like live gigs too. And because the DSP processing is done within the mic itself it means that whatever settings you’ve saved in the Shure app will carry over to other recording apps you may want to use, including the default iOS camera app. There are quite a few reviews of it online but here’s one of them:

The sound through the on stage monitor may not be identical to the sound out front but provided it’s of comparable quality to the rest of your PA it’ll get you much closer than the typical coloured bass cab will. As with most things you tend to get what you pay for, so there’s no use expecting a dirt cheap monitor to match up sound-wise to a multi-thousand pound PA projecting out front, or vice versa. And of course, even if your on stage monitor is the same make and model as your PA tops, the characteristics of the room will affect the sound out front to some degree. If you’re playing at a smaller venue then the tone coming out of your monitor (now serving as backline) is what the audience is also hearing. Simples Granted, using “house” stage monitors and PA might throw a spanner in the works as you’re at the mercy of whatever they give you. For me I guess it’s just about eliminating variables. I’ve always preferred to have all my tone shaping from my basses and pedals. In that sense, me and the rest of the converts in this thread are certainly in the minority of bassists as a whole. However, I will say that since more and more pro bassists and pro guitarists (the kind who play truly massive venues and do national/international tours) are running amp modellers into FRFR monitors or in ears that there’s probably some method to our madness. Consistency of sound from venue to venue, ease of setup/tear down, cleaning up of the stage space and making the sound guy/gal’s job easier out front. Very few of us in this thread are at that level of gigging but clearly we still feel the advantages even though we’re only playing in our bedrooms or down at the Dog & Duck. Also, bear in mind that everyone here who is now happily living the FRFR life has had experience owning and playing through traditional amps and cabs, and having compared the two experiences are finding the monitor route to be better for them. I’d say that it’s easy to be a skeptic from afar with no meaningful experience of the very thing being criticised. You just have to try both to be able to form a balanced argument on the matter. @stingrayPete1977‘s comments above are totally accurate. These RCFs will stand toe to toe with bass rigs of the same driver size and win every time for both volume and heft. I’d challenge you, @Al Krow, to see about trialling one as a replacement for your backline. Use it for a couple of rehearsals and a couple of gigs (giving you a little time to dial in the kind of sound you like) and then come back here and share how you feel. You may still prefer the look of a “proper bass amp” sitting behind you but I can bet money that you’ll have changed your tune with regards to their performance. p.s. Oh, and since you have a Zoom MS-60b and B3n you can even emulate your current Markbass sound and get rid of some of the subjectivity of the tone argument! It’ll be a test purely of volume, heft and dispersion. p.p.s. And convenience, of course.

This thread is the definition of tragicomedy. Some unbelievable stories. Keep 'em coming folks!

I think the simple answer is yes. The benefits of having a larger voice coil for the HF driver are that the crossover point with the woofer can be lower, meaning the HF driver deals with the lions share of mids and the woofer now takes care of a narrower range of lower frequencies. So the woofer now has less work to do and can be more efficient in doing it. Which, for bass, is a great thing!

+100 to all of this. I’m 6’7” myself so the tilt-back element is a huge bonus, along with the added positioning options in tight spaces. Anyone who DI’s their bass amp to PA stands to benefit from going down the FRFR monitor route, in terms of eliminating the guesswork of “my tone on stage is great but does it bear any resemblance to what the audience are hearing? 🤔🧐” and this benefit is further amplified (‘scuse the pun) if you use effects. This translates to an easier time finding your tone in a recording/studio environment too. If you can really be arsed with mic’ing up your bass cabs then good luck to you! This is a huge part of the argument for me. Boutique bass cab manufacturers are only just beginning to venture into the ballpark of the big PA brands as far as quality of components used. And yet said bass cab manufacturers are charging as much if not more money for boxes that lack a dedicated power amp matched specifically to the drivers, they lack DSP and they lack speaker protection - three things which come as standard in PA speakers at many price points. Tone is subjective, yes. Performance? Less so. And tone can be tweaked with much greater ease than the raw performance of electrical components.

It’s not glue, more like a microsuction pad. Hard to explain/understand without seeing it in person! It’s very non-invasive and entirely (cleanly) removable.

I’ve gone this route myself as the adhesive pad-thing just ended up being a bit of a nuisance for me. Bought a pack of mini Velcro discs online. Does a better job and doesn’t need cleaning like the original adhesive pad did.

Haven’t scoured in detail yet but based on a brief look on my iPad it’s a massive improvement over the old site. Good job, folks.

Admittedly it was a generalisation but the point being that it’s been designed to sound good with bass first and foremost. Sure, you can put other stuff through it but spend 30 seconds A/Bing it with a decent FRFR speaker and the baked-in colouring of the Markbass will become swiftly apparent. My old Tecamp and TKS rig was, on paper, one of the more transparent combinations as far as bass amplification goes and yet even that couldn’t hold a candle to my RCF for clarity of sound from non-bass guitar sources.

But nowhere near as good for keys, vocals or general playback of music/videos, which is what I also use my RCF for. It’s several rigs in one and I never have to worry about whether anything will sound good through it or not. Below is a friendly rig comparison: My RCF HD32a (new price ~£869) weighs 18.8kg and will beautifully reproduce whatever I could ever want to put through it. Oh and it can be tilted back for better audibility in tight spaces. Your beloved Markbass AC121 combo (new price ~£945) weighs 16.3kg and pretty much only sounds good with bass... An Eich T900 (new version of the Tecamp - new price £789 and weighing 1.7kg) paired with a Barefaced Big Baby 2 (new price £749 and weighing 13kg) costs a total of £1,538 and weighs a total of 14.7kg An Eich T900 with a Vanderkley MNT112* (new price £675 and weighing 16kg) would cost a total of £1,464 and weigh a total of 17.7kg *I’ve used Vanderkley’s higher power-rated 112 cab rather than any of their 210s in an effort to maintain an apples to apples comparison in terms of driver size vs the other options here. I’ll happily give up a few kilos for the immeasurable increase in versatility from my current rig.

I’m actually waiting for an afternoon when nobody’s home so I can really give it some juice! Put it this way - it’s replaced a Tecamp Puma 900 feeding an 8ohm TKS 1126 and I have zero regrets. If anything I wish I’d gone this route sooner.

How could I forget - BassTheWorld! Some truly fantastic playing/demos

It's in my sig RCF HD32a. They ain't cheap, but I got a good deal from Northwing of this parish. Saying that, even the brand new price isn't any more than you'd realistically pay for a good quality amp head and cab.

Fair enough. A keyboard amp of some sort may well be your solution then as they tend to have the inputs and controls at the top or front rather than the back.