zbd1960

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1475958596' post='3150143'] Exactly, it all opens doors for you. I came to bass playing via playing violin at school, then classical guitar. I had weekly lessons for both instruments, learning to read etc. When it came to playing bass, I expected to be given charts to read from, it never occurred to me that you could play any other way. [/quote]I know

I also play cello and tenor sax. The music world isn't very large and I've had a few calls over the last couple of years to dep in various concerts for several orchestras (I should be doing one tonight in Kidderminster, but I decided I needed a rest). Now, I don't want to imply I'm a genius, I'm not - I'm around grade 6 or 7 on cello, but my sight-reading is pretty good (because I'm an experienced choral singer and used to reading lots of stuff). I've done a lot of theory (because I like doing it). The end result is I can go to one of these gigs and do a decent job - I'm not being held back by my reading and the theory means I'm not thrown by weird things happening (e.g. odd time signatures or performance direction e.g. bowing spiccato or col legno as happened with a piece of Piazolla recently ([url="https://youtu.be/dMXoyJ8P1oE"]Tangazo[/url])). But, that's me.

What is called 'theory' is a mixture of things. Part of it you might describe as 'mechanicals' - it's for example, how we define things like keys. That is so that we know what we are working with and also it provides a common 'language' so that musicians can talk to each other and stand some chance of understanding each other. Other apsects of theory are around the practice and style of music. The various styles/genres have their rule sets, which are part of the characteristics which define those genres. The rule sets are different for the different styles, which is why a piece of high baroque written in 1735 is different from a piece of early baroque from 1610, which is different from Beethoven, 1920s jazz, blues, or 1950s rock n roll. The rule sets affect the harmonies which are used and how they are used. Palestrina would never have used an unprepared dissonance, nor a tertiary modulation like Beethoven. Can you play music without understanding or knowing what a Neopolitan sixth or a teriary modulation is? Yes, of course you can. Does having some undertsanding of how it hangs together have benefits and likely to be helpful with your playing? Yes. The language analogy is a good one. You won't be surprised to learn that I like to know and undertsand the grammar and I'm currently trying to find the time to sit grade 7 music theory...

I only found out after my dad died (I was 50) that he had played tenor horn in bands. He showed no interest or encouragement to me. My gran taught me some basics of piano playing. I was 33 before I started doing any music stuff (that's when I started having lessons). When I started performing in concerts etc my dad was never very interested, very odd.

'Generic' big music shops are a problem. Music is one of those areas that needs some expertise as it's not like buying white goods. Whether it's a beginner's violin package or a guitar and amp, there's a lot about what suits the individual, the budget, set-up, the purpose/intention etc. Sadly, most stores aren't prepared to pay to get decent staff, so go with students looking for part-time jobs who are 'interested' in music. Since training, whether in sales methods, customer care, or product knowledge, costs money, that also is not done. The result is by and large poor service, unless you are lucky enough to get someone more clued up. The independents are usually better as the owner tends to be more hands-on and knows that reputaton and service are important. The trouble is the big stores will loss-lead on the mass market stuff and this makes it hard for the independents to survive. Then there's the internet...

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1475231610' post='3144187'] I received an email from the Glasgow shop this morning to say that the email informing me of the impending arrival of my amp of choice was a generic one (even though it was addressed "Dear Duncan" and signed by a named member of staff) and that no, my amp of choice would not be coming in soon and if I want one it has to be a special order. No apology, no sorry for the confusion, just a general tone of "tough titty, mate". They will therefore never see a pound of my money. I have expressed sufficient interest, they more or less lied to me, didn't apologise, weren't polite and, it seems, don't much care about trying to get the sale. I understand they can't necessarily order something in on spec, but the whole back and forth has been very shabby, so I'll take my money elsewhere. [/quote]I suspect some genius has set-up an auto-reply e-mail system, with a mail-merge to 'personalise' the response so it appears you're getting service when you're not.

Ok, interesting... I'll declare up front I'm left-handed, but play right-handed, more on that in a moment. Picking up a few points, 'sinister' is Latin for 'left' and 'dextra' is the word for 'right' (hence dexterity, dextrous etc). I have a pair of left-handed kitchen scissors - they make life much less painful (if you're right handed, try using a decent sized pair of right-handed scissors with your left hand). I'm one of those people who seems 'mixed up' when it comes to 'handedness' and I've recently twigged soemthign about it that's veyr interesting, but don't know its significance. I am right-handed at playing bass, cello, golf, cricket (bat), ten pin bowling, bowls (not done that for decades). I am left handed at any tennis/squash etc, bowling cricket balls, writing, use of mouse etc. I can use scissors in either hand, but easier with left. OK here's the interesting point: all my right-handed activities are below the waist and all my left-handed ones are waist height or above. For reference, I am right eye dominant. Some people are very 'handed' and find it difficult to use the other hand. For example, violin family instruments (violin, viola, cello, DB) are not generally available in LH form as the instruments are not symmetrical - you can't just reverse the stringing. The belly is not uniformly shaped, the fingerboard is asymmetrical, the bass bar is on one side, the bridge is not symmetrical etc. This means that even if you are left-handed, you will be expected to play 'right-handed'. If you insisted on a LH instrument, they are not easy to find - certainly in the UK. You could have one made to order and that would present you with at bill around £10k. I have a friend who is very left-handed and they are trying to learn violin and they find it very unnatural. It doesn't give me a problem at all on cello or bass and as my fine motor control is in my left hand, it probably gives me an advantage.

There's a saying which goes along the lines of 'we can't all lead the orchestra'. I was in my 30s before I took up music-making and started off singing (classical). I'm a competent choral bass baritone, I can sight-read to a decent standard and I've sung in some prety prestigious gigs. I sometimes get asked to dep with chamber choirs singing at cathedrals. I'm good at choral singing however, I have no desire to be a soloist. Roll forwards to my 50s and I decided to take up cello and sax at the same time (more or less). I had done some cello at school. I am nowhwere near as good a player as I am a singer (I'm about G7 on cello and G3 on sax). But I play with various orchestras, bands and ensembles and people pay to hear me play... Now I'm trying BG. I'm a rank beginner, but last week the swing band I play tenor sax in was short of anyone to play the bass, so I took my bass along and had a go. I simplified the parts, sticking stuff in on the main beat and avoiding trying anythign twiddly. Some people never try - they sit at home and never play with others because they're 'not good enough'. Both my sax teacher and cello teacher like the fact that I'm prepared to 'have a go' and join groups and play. So many never do. So, if you play with a group for your own pleasure, there's nothing wrong with that - you're doing a lot more than millions of others. It's infinitely preferable to a night of soap operas and worse.

That would be 1971 for me. I started buying classical LPs then. Started playing cello at school the following year, but after that would then not play again until in my 50s. BG was 45 years away...

Agree, sounds like you found a very precise resonance with the stage and/or room.

As a cellist, there are some differences with different brands of rosin. I agree I don't think the summer/winter choices are very relevant in our climate in the UK. Some rosins are harder or softer and some more or less sticky. These days I use Melos which is about £15, I don't particularly like Hidersine. The stuff with gold flakes etc in it is just a gimmick.

It is remarkable how unaware some people can be. I play in an informal sax ensemble - we only meet once a month for a few hours. It is aimed at relatively new players. The group is quite mixed. Some are relatively new players who are keen to learn and in the 18 months we've been meeting, they have made tangible progress e.g. better timing and rhythm. One player who allegedly 'plays by ear' (specifically in his case I think that means 'can't be bothered to read') is all over the place. His timing is awful, his rhythm is dire, he has two dynamic levels: loud and not playing. I seem to have acquired the role of 'leading' this group. Every suggestion about dynamics, blend, listening to other parts is entirely lost. Last month he was away and the difference was immense. Unfortunately, because of the nature of this group, I can't throw him out, however much I would like to. In the case we have from the OP, the best suggestion is to record some rehearsals and make a point of critically reviewing the recording in rehearsal, asking members what they thought was 'good' and what they thought 'needed improvement'.

GAS is an incurable disease. It afflicts many who have interest in specialist subjects. Music is severe, cases have been noted amongst photographers, astronomers, car and bike enthusiasts, fishermen, outdoor activity enthusiasts. It is particularly virulent amongst men of a certain age, but has been observed in men and women of all ages.

Not sure that's quite right. I bought my first classical LPs in about 1972. I think budget were 49p (I.e. 9/11), mid 75p (15/-) and top 99p (19/11). For context, I know that in 1978 when I was first a barman beer was 23p a pint. I was only 12 in '72 so can't give a direct comparison

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1473109987' post='3127082'] Every respect. But the Solti does it for me......! LD [/quote]I think the Barbirolli was the first to 'popularise' Mahler 6. The typical Barbirolli grunts can be irritating. I think I'm fond of it because it was the first recording of it I had (it used to be the Gramophone 'rosette' recording). I also have Solti and Rattle

6,000 at Royal Albert Hall, BBC Prom concert, broadcast live on Radio 3, which was also shown on BBC 4... I was singing bass in a choir performing Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony

Last night, I walked along the local high street (and yes, it is called 'High Street' - small market town). One bar had a DJ on to a private party and they seemed to be enjoying themselves, one bar had a dire band on with the singer probably in a different key from the band, one wine bar had a female vocalist accompanying herself on electro-acoustic guitar and either atonal/non-tonal music has suddenly become popular, or she was excruciatingly out-of-tune....

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1473078102' post='3126614'] Charge of the Light Brigade, General Gordon, Scott of the Antarctic ....... we take a hell of a pounding so well. We get knocked down, but we get up again. They're never going to keep us down. Now there was an originals band with something unique, that had a great following, and never sought fame and wealth AFAIK, until it happened one day. Two things that are tough to define in philosophy : quality and truth. Robert Pirsig had had a good go at defining some kind of structure for 'what is quality?' whereas many others gave up over hundreds of years. Pirsig assigned a hierarchy (I hope he's not reading !), in which social quality, such as fame and popularity, is trumped by 'self-fulfilment' or intellectual quality such as appreciation of harmonic progression or lyrical meaning or art - but not all people operate within the 'self actualised' domain for much of the time. Hence, for most people, quality and popularity/fame are always effectively the same thing. But there is a higher plane, most musicians know of course. So depends whether we get this, personally, as to whether we think Mustang Sally beats Mahler's 6th for musical quality........the answer would be obvious (but different) and deeply split for the population. You did ask ! I'm a Mahler 6th dude. Others would say Mustang Sally. LD [/quote]Barbirolli recording?

I've used various premises with various choirs/orchestras/groups I rehearse with where we have a set of keys to lock up. I think you have to judge it on th emerits of the situation. But expect a bigger bill if he has to pay someone to attend/lock-up.

It's the same experience with classical. Over 90% of all classical concerts in the UK are amateur productions with orchestras, bands and choirs like the various ones I am a part of. No one is obliged to come and there is a lot of competition from other gigs let alone TV, pub, or whatever. All the groups I'm in have to put a lot of effort into generating audience. The overheads can be horrific with local civic centres charging £1,000 or more to hire, pro soloists will be £250 upwards (we've paid over £1,000), pro players etc means even a 'cheap' concerts cost £2.5k and a big one £15k. People complain that you want to charge £12 or £15 for a ticket when you are probably subsidising the costs by 50 to 80% by other fund-raising. It's a strange world.

It sounds like bands need a mutually agreed signal amongst themselves for 'volume war guys - need to turn it down...' Sounds like suddenly passing oranges round between items could be the signal... No one then needs to actually say anything

Mike Rutherford apparently.... looks like I need to take up polo and dressage....

I didn't have a clue at the end of primary school - astronomy and chemistry were my interests then. I went to a grammar school, so in 2nd to 5th forms (no I don't do 'years' either) I had a weekly music lesson at school playing cello, but didn't get very far and after 6th form, didn't expect to be doing anything musical. Thus is stayed until I was in my 30s when I started singing lessons and I didn't touch an instrument until in my 50s... One of my nephews (now 20) was musical from an early age. Although my brother is clueless, nephew started on trumpet aged 9 and then guitar at 13 and had regular lessons until he was 17. He's not playing anything at the moment as uni and g/f currently take precedence... I'm hoping he'll return when he's a little older.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1472503838' post='3121688'] Drums are not inherently loud. They would be put through the PA so that they may, even, be played more quietly..! The real advantage, in a small venue, is simply to spread the sound, especially of the bass drum, but all the kit too, into the overall sound of the band. This avoids having those at the front hearing the kit differently than those at the sides or back. The objective is not amplification, but overall sound reinforcement and balance. The drummer plays at his/her ordinary level, and [i]all [/i]in the room hear the whole band correctly. No use, of course, if the person behind the kit wallops away like a shed-builder, I'll allow, but for [i]real [/i]drummers, it's a very common and useful ploy, harming no kittens. The drums are not loud in the PA, merely [i]present[/i]. [/quote] Thanks for that, it makes sense. Unfortunately, my (limited) experience suggests things get hit as hard as possible most of the time

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472033333' post='3117805'] another do you mic up the drums? if you do, don't ( maybe a bit of bass drum if you must) and set the other levels to match them, can never understand why bands mic up the drums for a small pub gig [/quote] I don't get this either. Drums are inherently LOUD, neither they nor trumpets, trombones nor saxes need amplifying in small venues....