zbd1960

There's a saying which goes along the lines of 'we can't all lead the orchestra'. I was in my 30s before I took up music-making and started off singing (classical). I'm a competent choral bass baritone, I can sight-read to a decent standard and I've sung in some prety prestigious gigs. I sometimes get asked to dep with chamber choirs singing at cathedrals. I'm good at choral singing however, I have no desire to be a soloist. Roll forwards to my 50s and I decided to take up cello and sax at the same time (more or less). I had done some cello at school. I am nowhwere near as good a player as I am a singer (I'm about G7 on cello and G3 on sax). But I play with various orchestras, bands and ensembles and people pay to hear me play... Now I'm trying BG. I'm a rank beginner, but last week the swing band I play tenor sax in was short of anyone to play the bass, so I took my bass along and had a go. I simplified the parts, sticking stuff in on the main beat and avoiding trying anythign twiddly. Some people never try - they sit at home and never play with others because they're 'not good enough'. Both my sax teacher and cello teacher like the fact that I'm prepared to 'have a go' and join groups and play. So many never do. So, if you play with a group for your own pleasure, there's nothing wrong with that - you're doing a lot more than millions of others. It's infinitely preferable to a night of soap operas and worse.

That would be 1971 for me. I started buying classical LPs then. Started playing cello at school the following year, but after that would then not play again until in my 50s. BG was 45 years away...

Agree, sounds like you found a very precise resonance with the stage and/or room.

As a cellist, there are some differences with different brands of rosin. I agree I don't think the summer/winter choices are very relevant in our climate in the UK. Some rosins are harder or softer and some more or less sticky. These days I use Melos which is about £15, I don't particularly like Hidersine. The stuff with gold flakes etc in it is just a gimmick.

It is remarkable how unaware some people can be. I play in an informal sax ensemble - we only meet once a month for a few hours. It is aimed at relatively new players. The group is quite mixed. Some are relatively new players who are keen to learn and in the 18 months we've been meeting, they have made tangible progress e.g. better timing and rhythm. One player who allegedly 'plays by ear' (specifically in his case I think that means 'can't be bothered to read') is all over the place. His timing is awful, his rhythm is dire, he has two dynamic levels: loud and not playing. I seem to have acquired the role of 'leading' this group. Every suggestion about dynamics, blend, listening to other parts is entirely lost. Last month he was away and the difference was immense. Unfortunately, because of the nature of this group, I can't throw him out, however much I would like to. In the case we have from the OP, the best suggestion is to record some rehearsals and make a point of critically reviewing the recording in rehearsal, asking members what they thought was 'good' and what they thought 'needed improvement'.

GAS is an incurable disease. It afflicts many who have interest in specialist subjects. Music is severe, cases have been noted amongst photographers, astronomers, car and bike enthusiasts, fishermen, outdoor activity enthusiasts. It is particularly virulent amongst men of a certain age, but has been observed in men and women of all ages.

Not sure that's quite right. I bought my first classical LPs in about 1972. I think budget were 49p (I.e. 9/11), mid 75p (15/-) and top 99p (19/11). For context, I know that in 1978 when I was first a barman beer was 23p a pint. I was only 12 in '72 so can't give a direct comparison

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1473109987' post='3127082'] Every respect. But the Solti does it for me......! LD [/quote]I think the Barbirolli was the first to 'popularise' Mahler 6. The typical Barbirolli grunts can be irritating. I think I'm fond of it because it was the first recording of it I had (it used to be the Gramophone 'rosette' recording). I also have Solti and Rattle

6,000 at Royal Albert Hall, BBC Prom concert, broadcast live on Radio 3, which was also shown on BBC 4... I was singing bass in a choir performing Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony

Last night, I walked along the local high street (and yes, it is called 'High Street' - small market town). One bar had a DJ on to a private party and they seemed to be enjoying themselves, one bar had a dire band on with the singer probably in a different key from the band, one wine bar had a female vocalist accompanying herself on electro-acoustic guitar and either atonal/non-tonal music has suddenly become popular, or she was excruciatingly out-of-tune....

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1473078102' post='3126614'] Charge of the Light Brigade, General Gordon, Scott of the Antarctic ....... we take a hell of a pounding so well. We get knocked down, but we get up again. They're never going to keep us down. Now there was an originals band with something unique, that had a great following, and never sought fame and wealth AFAIK, until it happened one day. Two things that are tough to define in philosophy : quality and truth. Robert Pirsig had had a good go at defining some kind of structure for 'what is quality?' whereas many others gave up over hundreds of years. Pirsig assigned a hierarchy (I hope he's not reading !), in which social quality, such as fame and popularity, is trumped by 'self-fulfilment' or intellectual quality such as appreciation of harmonic progression or lyrical meaning or art - but not all people operate within the 'self actualised' domain for much of the time. Hence, for most people, quality and popularity/fame are always effectively the same thing. But there is a higher plane, most musicians know of course. So depends whether we get this, personally, as to whether we think Mustang Sally beats Mahler's 6th for musical quality........the answer would be obvious (but different) and deeply split for the population. You did ask ! I'm a Mahler 6th dude. Others would say Mustang Sally. LD [/quote]Barbirolli recording?

I've used various premises with various choirs/orchestras/groups I rehearse with where we have a set of keys to lock up. I think you have to judge it on th emerits of the situation. But expect a bigger bill if he has to pay someone to attend/lock-up.

It's the same experience with classical. Over 90% of all classical concerts in the UK are amateur productions with orchestras, bands and choirs like the various ones I am a part of. No one is obliged to come and there is a lot of competition from other gigs let alone TV, pub, or whatever. All the groups I'm in have to put a lot of effort into generating audience. The overheads can be horrific with local civic centres charging £1,000 or more to hire, pro soloists will be £250 upwards (we've paid over £1,000), pro players etc means even a 'cheap' concerts cost £2.5k and a big one £15k. People complain that you want to charge £12 or £15 for a ticket when you are probably subsidising the costs by 50 to 80% by other fund-raising. It's a strange world.

It sounds like bands need a mutually agreed signal amongst themselves for 'volume war guys - need to turn it down...' Sounds like suddenly passing oranges round between items could be the signal... No one then needs to actually say anything

Mike Rutherford apparently.... looks like I need to take up polo and dressage....

I didn't have a clue at the end of primary school - astronomy and chemistry were my interests then. I went to a grammar school, so in 2nd to 5th forms (no I don't do 'years' either) I had a weekly music lesson at school playing cello, but didn't get very far and after 6th form, didn't expect to be doing anything musical. Thus is stayed until I was in my 30s when I started singing lessons and I didn't touch an instrument until in my 50s... One of my nephews (now 20) was musical from an early age. Although my brother is clueless, nephew started on trumpet aged 9 and then guitar at 13 and had regular lessons until he was 17. He's not playing anything at the moment as uni and g/f currently take precedence... I'm hoping he'll return when he's a little older.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1472503838' post='3121688'] Drums are not inherently loud. They would be put through the PA so that they may, even, be played more quietly..! The real advantage, in a small venue, is simply to spread the sound, especially of the bass drum, but all the kit too, into the overall sound of the band. This avoids having those at the front hearing the kit differently than those at the sides or back. The objective is not amplification, but overall sound reinforcement and balance. The drummer plays at his/her ordinary level, and [i]all [/i]in the room hear the whole band correctly. No use, of course, if the person behind the kit wallops away like a shed-builder, I'll allow, but for [i]real [/i]drummers, it's a very common and useful ploy, harming no kittens. The drums are not loud in the PA, merely [i]present[/i]. [/quote] Thanks for that, it makes sense. Unfortunately, my (limited) experience suggests things get hit as hard as possible most of the time

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472033333' post='3117805'] another do you mic up the drums? if you do, don't ( maybe a bit of bass drum if you must) and set the other levels to match them, can never understand why bands mic up the drums for a small pub gig [/quote] I don't get this either. Drums are inherently LOUD, neither they nor trumpets, trombones nor saxes need amplifying in small venues....

Someone spotted one today. It's remarkable for its candour and honesty, it includes this: "ADHD drummer with slightly better temperament than the nut job off the commitments might be available but we're waiting to see...."

I've spent some time teaching a few people over the years to read music. One was a complete novice in their 30s, the other was a guitarist. In both cases, I split the pitch and rhythm into separate activities and I focused mostly on getting them to understand rhythm notation and being able to clap or tap it out (people seem reluctant to 'lah' it ). We did the pitch notation separately and I probably spent 2/3 on rhythm and 1/3 on pitch in the first few sessions.

Not my favourite, but +1 to the banana idea. A friend of mine is a young professional cellist and they get taught about this use of bananas (!) at conservatoire

Unfortunate YAS 23 is a good instrument. I'd quite like a YTS23 or 25 (T = tenor)

The instruments which I take out of the house on a regular basis are with Allianz. The others are covered by the 'all risks' element of the household insurance.

I don't play DB (yet) but I do play two instruments that use gut strings - the tenor and bass viola da gamba, the large bass version of which, the violone, is the ancestor of (viol shaped) DBs. You have to use gut strings on viols as they cannot take the tension of metal strings. There are several issues with gut strings. The sound is good and has a silvery sound which blends very well and which you do not get with metal strings. The key point is that as a natural fibre, it breathes - it absorbs and releases water vapour as the humidity changes. During this time, the mass of the string is changing, which means the tuning is changing. Once equilibrium has been reached, they stabilise. Gut strings are prone to going 'false' more so than metal strings over time. This means that the same fret on adjacent strings may not be in tune with each other. Cost wise, for my bass viol, which is cello sized, strings are cheaper than cello strings - about £6 for the top D and about £50 for the bottom D (it has 6 strings), whereas a set of decent modern cello strings is about £140 - £240 (my bottom C string cost £105). I have no doubt that it is worse for DB players given the extra string size.

I wonder if it's the same issue you get with a lot of modern classical soloists? Technically fantastic with stupendous virtuosity, but somehow lacking in 'musicality'? (I know, I know - defining that is not easy.)