Kitsto

How terrific to see Dave Cousins mentioned. In the late 80s/early 90s Acoustic Strawbs were playing a local pavilion. I'd been a fan since the 70s so took my then wife along. At the interval I went out for a pee and found myself standing alongside DC at the urinals. I asked him if he'd dedicate a song to my wife, told him her name and, sure enough, during the second set he did!

Once saw Bill Wyman at an airport - we were sitting opposite each other on the bus to the plane. I asked him if he was Si Si Je Suis Un Rockstar. He said he was. At the top of the stairs he turned left for first class and me right for steerage. But I did extract a priceless nugget of useful info from him before we parted. At the time (early 80s) Zep had stopped and I was concerned about Page. I knew JP knew the Stones so I inquired of Mr Wyman as to how JP was. "He's fine," he said, "he's cut his hair." Wow, I thought, that's how rockstars are.

There have been a lot of useful discussions here on band dynamics and leadership. My own experience is that the setlist will generally be determined by the singer and guitarist (what one can actually sing and what the other is prepared to play). Drummers seem to be ignored on the basis that they aren't interested in melody, just banging things at different tempos (tempi?); and the bass player tends to be ignored full stop. I think we bass players tend to be fastidious about learning our parts. But in truth the others tend not to notice. I think I'd be inclined to rock up to rehearsals ready play root notes to any song recently 'suggested' and only get serious when it looks like a cert for the setlist. If challenged I'd say: 'No point in me learning the exact part unless I know for sure the rest of you want to play it.' Maybe a bit passive/aggressive. But it's amazing how many front people (vcls, gtr) are time wasters and feel they have the right to be at everyone else's expense (and no, I'm not bitter!). As for bass players making suggestions for the setlist that get accepted - don't get me started!

Wishbone Ash's Blowin' Free: Her hair was golden brown / Blowin' free like a donkey [corn field]

I withdraw my insistence that AC/DC's use of bagpipes should be allowed. It took just three words to make me see sense: Mull of Kintyre. You're right: no exceptions, even for heavy metal. Otherwise we'd have borderline cases - is Metallica doing a cover version of MoK allowed? (Obviously not. Not because of the bagpipes but because of the song.)

Unless the bagpipes are used by AC/DC.

Just on the subject of prog, a mate took me to see Crimson at the Albert Hall about five years back with the mighty Tony Levin on bass and chapman stick and Mr Fripp in a suit looking like a ticket collector, sat at an upturned, opened packing case with the three drummers ranged a tier below in front. It was fine (they played a bit of Red, my fave KC album after Starless & Bible Black) but it was only when watching his vlogs (called something like 'At home with RF') that I realised why I don't really like most of their music. He insists on keeping his guitars tuned to C and then playing fast but unmelodic arpeggiated passages for 5-10 minutes at a time, like exercises. I know this is serious music and I ought to, you know, make the effort and like it. But I just don't.

Yes, Camel did The Snow Goose which I liked (for some stupid reason Camel and Caravan seemed to coalesce in my mind back then). Agree about Van Der Graaf - liked parts of H To He but that was it. Glad you mentioned Marillion - saw H at my local filling station (I live in Bucks) a few years back and have been getting into them lately - they really are a great band. EDIT I first came across Tubular Bells - long, long before it became big - because the coolest guy in my class at school used to listen to Zappa, Beefheart and Hendrix and thought Zep (my favourite band back then) were 'stupid'. He was also known to be the cleverest boy in the entire school. One day he came back from the record shop in town with Tub Bells under his arm. Had he listened to it? No. Why had he bought it then? 'Because with the number of instruments this bloke [Mike Oldfield] claims [on the back of the album] to have played, it must be good'. He was also a fan of the Bonzo Dogs so the fact that Viv Stanshall was on it probably swayed him. He was also into the Softs, Hatfield and Henry Cow. Happy days.

I grew up in the 70s so Yes, Floyd, Genesis, Tull, Crimson and ELP were standard fare. I couldn't get on with Soft Machine or Hatfield & The North (maybe they were more fusion?). I was aware of Gentle Giant and Greenslade but somehow never listened to them properly. One of my favourite bands was Strawbs and it was odd how they got labelled prog as if folk + rock = prog. I liked Supertramp but didn't consider them prog. Realise now I maybe should have done (at least on Crime). Have recently been re-immersing myself in Yes Album, Fragile, Close To The Edge, Yessongs (played live that music has even more power) and Six Wives. Crumbs how great those albums were!

This is interesting. I used to keep each song's structure on a 3x5 card all clipped together in setlist order. I usually didn't need to refer to it but it was a reassuring prop. After I left the band the singer said to me some months later with an air of incredulity: 'The new bass player keeps notes, just like you!' When Ron Blair rejoined the Heartbreakers, Tom Petty recalled coming across Blair in the backstage canteen waiting to to go on for Blair's first gig back. Petty saw Blair was making notes. 'Writin' to your gal?' TP inquired in typical Pettyesque fashion. 'No, Tom. Making notes for the gig.' TP recalled walking away thinking to himself, 'Maan, this guy writes notes!' Is this a bassist thing to do, write notes?

This. I realised after a while in the covers band I was in that none of my suggestions were accepted. The singer had to decide if he could sing it and the guitarist whether he could be arsed to play it. However, the drummer had a right of veto: if he hated a song he'd deliberately wreck it by playing out of time. I, as bass, didn't count. But I did get my own back. The singer loved playing interminable Chicago blues. One of the several we did was a semitone down (B flat, I think). During a gig I nodded off, assumed this was the one we played flat and was a semitone out throughout. At the end we all looked at each other: it had sounded even worse than usual. But no one twigged it was me. For some reason we never played that number again.

I have a Goth which I bought to play halloween gigs with the band I was in back then. I already had a Tbird Pro (that one's active, the Goth is passive). I expected to sell the Goth when I left the band but it's really nice to play so I never did. But IIRC they don't go for much. I picked this up for maybe £250-300 in perfect nick. Maybe the Nikki Sixx connection would increase that. So it might not be worth lugging all the way to the UK.

Yes, music has that special ability to waft you back in time. I think it's why we have such an emotional response and tie to it. It's why we (I) worship the people who make the music that does this to us (me). And also why such worship is pointless - even though I still do it: top musicians put their trousers on one leg at a time like the rest of us as Stephen King so memorably wrote about famous writers (himself included). Besides they usually have no better understanding of how they do what they do than a striker sticking the ball in the back of the net. It's why I play bass and have played in a band - to see what it was like (love playing bass; hated being in a band; no rock star alternative career daydream for me). EDIT: Reminds me of that Rush DVD (Rush In Rio?) where Alex Lifeson looks on bemused when fans break down in tears in front of him (and Geddy grouches round looking for a missing lucky stage shoe saying that this is definitely not documentary DVD material).

I am finding this thread surprisingly entertaining. As Homer Simpson says, most of us do our jobs half-assed (me included) so it's terrific to hear about pro musicians (whom I tend to revere pathetically) being just as bad. Really cheered to hear how good Simple Minds are. I've really come to appreciate CB's guitar-playing - just fantastic. And, having seen both versions of Wishbone, I have to agree with the posts above. One seemed to have a geography teacher on guitar and the other a hamster. EDIT Nothing against geography teachers (have been a teacher myself) nor hamsters, nor geography-teaching hamsters for that matter.

I grew up with In Rock and Machine Head and regard each as being 'of a piece' but I suppose Child In Time stands out as haunting. More recently Perfect Strangers, of course. But in between I really like Might Just Take Your Life but suspect I'm in a minority of one. I was brought up on Zep so was glad when DC got JP back into the studio and Coverdale Page is (IMHO) pretty good. I was sorry they only played a handful of dates in Japan before splitting up. But having seen a vid of one of those gigs I can see why they did. DC lampoons about the stage exhorting Nagoya to go crazy (in Ozzy fashion) whereas JP is much more used to the self-reverential approach of RP who saw fronting LZ as some kind of Norse calling with everyone on stage part of some high priesthood. I think JP was shocked to suddenly find himself in Slade! EDIT: Just as an aside, I saw The Firm a couple of times. I think the reason why it never worked is that PR is used to singing over chordal song structures whereas RP was happy creating some sort of melodic line over quite unmelodic riffs made up of a succession of single notes. But I know nothing about music theory so this is probably bollox.

Feeder (whom I like a lot) in about 2008. Incredibly loud and distorted. Couldn't make anything out. Just a wall of noise. Saw Grant Nicholas on his solo tour a few years later - fantastic (small hall in Shepherd's Bush, standing just behind his family - his kids had come to see dad play). Even worse were The Kinks in the Royal Albert Hall, early noughties: again the issue was volume. They were so loud they were virtually heavy metal. Impossible to hear anything and completely unnecessary. I'd taken my wife and kid along. To save their ears I walked us out. One of the best gigs: Sigur Ros at Wembley Arena - crystal clear. Edit: weirdest gig: Leslie West and Corky Laing billed as Mountain at Sutton United FC. They were playing in the hospitality suite and Corky manned the merch stall after. Leslie kicked off by saying: "Good evening, London - this is London right?" He was right to question it. After the gig I saw him standing on his own by his dormobile in the car park. Ever the fanboy, rushed up to him and said, "Your live album [1993?] is the best live album I've ever heard" (which it is). He did what you hope all rock stars will do: shook my hand and said, "Thanks. Peace, man." Didn't wash my hand for a fortnight (except after going to the loo, obviously).

In my last band it was a rule that we go to the pub after rehearsal. We rehearsed every Tuesday 6-9pm then went to the pub till 10.30 (and usually gigged 2-3 times a month). I thought it was a great idea (even though I'd stopped drinking by then) because we got to know and like each other. But I've also played perfectly happily in bands where we met to play and didn't socialise at all outside the band. On balance I'd always prefer to be in a band where the others are mates.

Largely on the recommendations here I bought the book. I've always liked TH and what he did, particularly on OOALH. But the most surprising thing to me - which won't be a surprise to any of you - is that TH started life as a musician and not just any musician but a bass player. I genuinely had no idea. And he could read music too. In fact he started playing double bass in big bands, encouraged by his DB-playing dad. All of this was revelatory to me and means I take his production credits even more seriously. I've always known him to be a great producer but this background and upbringing explains how he was able to front Yes when he did which I had always found a bit odd. The other thing that strikes me is how long it took for his career to take off. He was born in 1949 - so was in his teens and twenties in the crucial (for rock) 68-72 period, roughly the same age as Robert Plant - yet it took him till he was in his 30s before he became big. That's some apprenticeship he served, all of which has deepened my respect for him. So although he's associated with the 80s he's really from a previous generation.

Very pretty! But looks quite fragile.

I've always admired TP's playing (he's a hell of a nice guy too when interviewed) but hadn't realised until recently how big an impact he has on that whole band's sound. He plays a bit like Lemmy in that he strums and when you do that on an 8 or 12 string, that's what gives CT such a big thick middle - he's playing a sort of combined bass-and-rhythm.

In which case stick to the 5. Guitarists in the band won't notice (they find bass beneath them). Punters in the audience will be impressed.

"I took the opportunity to give them the chance to find a new bass player" So beautifully put, TimR!

When The Levee Breaks – LZ4 was the first album I bought as a kid. This gave me a headache when I first heard it. I now think it’s the best thing they did (apart from The Rover). Saw them in 1975 (23rd May to be exact) – the first and best gig I ever went to. Room At The Top (Of The World) – one of Tom Petty's most depressing yet brilliant songs. What a songwriter. What a band. Why Dontcha – I listened to a lot of loud rawk in the 70s but Jack Bruce’s sublime bass line on this was what got me into the instrument (still can’t play it though). Leslie West wasn’t bad either. A Different Drum – this Peter Gabriel track is the closest an atheist like me can get to God. Mission – the version taken from Rush’s 2008 Snakes & Arrows live tour album has an incredible Alex Lifeson solo at the end which captures the feverish frailty and ultimate triumph of human artistic ambition. Spring [Jump] – Rammstein have boiled the whole of rock down to stupidly simple riffs, childish lyrics and cartoon humour yet at the same time are unbelievably great. Now Westlin Winds – Gaughan, the great Scottish folk guitarist, put Burns's lyric to music in an unforgettable setting. Listen to this live version on YouTube: In Loving Memory – they’ve gone off the boil since but Alter Bridge’s first album was for me as good as LZ’s debut some 30+ years before though I rate Tremonti more highly than Page. Luxury: my wife. If that’s not allowed then toothbrush & toothpaste. Book: All Of Us – the collected poems of Raymond Carver.

This. I loved learning my parts, rehearsing, enjoyed the band, liked most of the set list but found the actual gig.... boring (admittedly I disliked the setting up, tearing down, travelling and hanging around - but that would have been ok if I'd relished the playing). Wasn't nervous or shy, just bored. This was quite a shock to me. I'd spent most of my life wanting to be in a band then in my late 50s joined one (a good one, better musicians than me) and just didn't enjoy gigging. It was then I started to understand Neil Peart of Rush - he loved the recording and rehearsing but once they got the setlist to a peak of rehearsed perfection he wanted to go home, not go on a 60-date tour. The other two and the crew were quite stunned when it became clear the last gig they did (in 2015) was really going to be the last gig. In my case I had to leave the band temporarily for family reasons... and never went back. Haven't missed it at all. Now play along to Karaoke UK mixes when I like, playing what I like. Yet it was a great covers band, gigged regularly, pleased the crowd, and they gave me a lot of freedom to play the bass lines I wanted. I still don't really understand my reaction to this day.

IIRC, when Alex Lifeson of Rush was on the Canadian equivalent his luxury item was "a small city". I imagine it wasn't allowed.