Monkey Steve

Caught up on iPlayer the other night. Have to say, I too much preferred the drums episode, simply because SC (who's energy and enthusiasm I loved) focused on what the drums bring to music, and how they got there - marching bands to jazz to rock n roll and jazz's lasting influence. It was also much less about him. While the bass episode started off like that, it soon lost interest, and we got the evolution of Paul McCartney's choice of bass rather than, as others have pointed out, the evolution of upright players to electric bass via the Fender Precision - love or hate them, their historical importance is far greater than Hofners, which only seemed to be there because Tina W has one and that's a like to McCartney. No explanation of what the bass brings to the band or the music. Bit like Almost Famous, what does the bass player bring? Er...the bass... Happy that it featured bass in a wider context, but again, without explaining the role of bass, this seemed a little redundant. But I loved the bit with the DJ on his Amiga. Dizzy Rascal didn't seem to add much other than "I really like the bass" - he even admitted that he had nothing to do with the bass drop on the song of his that featured. Mind you, there were a lot of guitarists talking about bass players, whereas the drum show had a lot of drummers talking about drummers. Still, entertaining, if not especially enlightening for me. Oddly, I got an e-mail from my dad about it, who loved the bass one and was left indifferent by the drums. It may help if you don't have a special interest in bass to begin with

All techniques are tools, and it's as well to have as many tools as possible so that you can play the right thing at the right time. Personally I can do it a bit, but mainly use it for fun as it's not of huge use for the bands I've been in (though I can claim to have used it during a gig with a death metal band at Christmas) I'd hold up Juan Nelson from the Innocent Criminals at this point - doesn't use slap a lot, but when he rolls it out, man, it's effective. And I'd throw in Art Liboon from Mordred, one of my favourite bass players, proving that slap bass and thrash metal are made for each other

mine wasn't exactly lazy in an obvious way, but he was the least punctual band member I have ever meet (and I've met a few) - supposedly he always set off on time for gigs and rehearsals...but for some reason completely beyond his control he would get lost, or have to follow a detour, or his satnav was sending him on a route on the other side of town where the traffic was bad (i.e. he lied a lot, and we knew it, he set off late and lied) so he was conveniently never there for the load in, only the load out. And because he was always late the rest of the band would help him in with his gear... ...so actually, yes, lazy fecker

you have just proved that this is something done by all the Scotsmen in our sample size, regardless of hair... ...you don't by any chance, conveniently never quite get round to learning the songs that you don't personally like? If so then it's conclusive proof that it's all Scotsmen. If not then it's all Scottish guitarists* *until the sample size increases and proves otherwise

there was one excellent place we used to play - a tiny pub that had no entertainment budget, but the best landlord who would give us free booze all night. Great crowd, and I'm sure I drank more than my usual cut for a paying gig every time we played. The band member with the largest vehicle lived ten minutes walk away, so on more than one occasion the landlord let us leave all our gear in the pub to be picked up at opening time the following morning, so that we could all enjoy the free beer. The drummer typically didn't indulge, preferring to stay sober and drive home (which suited me as he could drop me off). he once stopped off at the pub for lunch and the landlord recognised him as the non-drinking drummer, asked if he was driving that day, and on finding out that he would be drinking, gave him free beer for the rest of the afternoon. That's exactly the sort of place I want to play (with the caveat that I've never been fussed about even covering costs, so YMMV)

Either we have been in a band with exactly the same guitarist or this is a common trait in the guitarist species...yours wasn't a ginger scotsman was he?

ah, yes, that's me too. I spent years biting my tongue as I'm rarely the BL, and I'd spend my time whingeing to bandmates about how awful something or somebody was, and magically hoping that it would improve, or that the offending band member would realise that the wasn't up to the job and quit. Then I joined a band with a much higher standard of musicians than my bands to that point to find that just saying to their face that something somebody has played is wrong/that was awful/can't you play something different/you missed that part/got that wrong/etc was pretty standard, and got much better results. People instantly know what they've done wrong, what you don't like and what needs to be improved or changed. If they disagree then it gets discussed in the open and resolved In one band (of a lower standard but I'd applied my new "just tell people when they've got things wrong" approach) I got known to be the bloke who was never happy as the rest of them were firmly of the belief that if the crowd applauds it doesn't matter how many mistakes you make but they also credit me with having whipped them into shape and made us a much better band. YMMV

there's probably a thread on a guitarists forum about this bloke who's never happy and gets through his guitarists at a rapid rate, just because they learned a different version of the cover he wanted to do

you have nothing to lose in trying...well, other than potentially a lot of time in dealing with people who you'd rather not have anything to do with (honestly, that's the biggest thing that puts me off starting a new band, having to deal with the retarded children that most musicians are...and that's the good ones...bass players are notable by our exception to this rule). But that aside, I never quite get why people complain that they can't find the exact band they want to join, yet do nothing about closing that gap and seeing if there are a band's worth of people out there thinking exactly the same thing and waiting for an ad to appear. Sounds like you have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so go for it

The networking has always evolved naturally for me: played in a couple of bands with mates I knew from school, bumped into an ex-bandmate in a rock club a year later who asked me to join his band, that led to another band with most of them, which then led to another band with a guitarist that I met through the band, then on and on to being asked to join or form bands with other people that I had played with or knew. I've never responded to an ad or auditioned for a bunch of strangers. True, there have been periods where I haven't played in bands, but I'm quite patient and something will turn up eventually even if it takes a year or two, either me rounding people up to start something new or being rounded up by somebody that I know. I know it's not the same for others, and there isn't one way that will definitely work, but if whatever you're doing isn't working then it's time to try something new - as you say, it worked brilliantly for you

in fairness, he does share your opinion of the others, so you're not miles apart 😂

I'm not the sort who would ever turn up at a jam night on my tod and want to get up and play with strangers - just doesn't float my boat at all - but maybe have a think about what might work for you and how you can meet other musicians. Are there any local music venues where you could hang out and meet people, that sort of thing. One final comment, you say that the drummer isn't as committed as you because he only wants to practice once a week. I have to say, once a week is pretty standard for the vast majority of bands who would regard themselves as serious/committed. The most I've ever done personally was a semi-pro lot I depped with who officially practice three times a week, although actually that gave them plenty of cover if one or more of them couldn't make all three, and two a week was more usual. You could certainly see the difference that it made to how well they played, and they specifically structured it so that two of the practices were solely about performance - get in, play the set, go home, typically 90 minutes, maybe an hour of actual playing, and if they made a mistake, just note it, move on to the next song, and go home and work on it yourself before the next practice. Then one longer four hour practice each week for learning and writing stuff, working on arrangements, etc. It helped that they have their own studio so don't have any fees to pay I can understand your frustration (shared by the lead guitarist in the band mentioned above, who never cancelled any of the practises, would want to rehearse regardless of how many others had dropped out, and would happily be in the studio seven nights a week if he could) and I've been there with band members who think that doing a couple of extra practises ahead of gigs is a definite no because they have already rehearsed once that week and that's enough for them. But I wouldn't write off the drummer just yet for only wanting to do once a week, and perhaps think about how to structure the rehearsal that you do have so that you get the most out of it - are you working on writing, working on performance, or a bit of both. It's pretty common to split things up and let the band know in advance what's happening - this week we're working on a new song, next week we're just working on performing the songs that we have in the set, the week after it's about arrangements, etc.

exactly! If you haven't got a strong BL telling everybody what version to play, then step up. Surely it shouldn't keep happening

I've ranted about it before, but the different interpretations of "really motivated" is a massive bugbear of mine. Half the people who claim to be really motivated when you form a band are just flat out liars. Nothing more frustrating than finding a band member who is the right standard and fits in brilliantly, who then turns out only to be available every third Saturday because of the kids and the wife and the golf and everything else they do, and then only if Arsenal aren't at home or on the TV, and as long as they haven't had a long week and don't really fancy it. the type that will be in the band when it suits them, but it's last on their list of priorities if they can find anything better to do. the type that like the idea of being in band more than they actually like being in a band. And in my experience it's quite often very talented musicians, who think that the band should be grateful for their presence. I've put up with this type for far too long in previous bands and it only ever ends in one way, they get kicked out. I can see that if it's a duo then that may not be the ideal option. I note that you're saying that you're a beginner, and you made a comment about being a crappy bassist. I don't know if this is false modestly, a joke or a brutally honest assessment, but if you're looking for other musicians, it could be a factor - the thread is all about walking into an audition thinking that it's going to be excellent musicians based on what the OP was told, and being massively disappointed by the standard of the playing. While I can't solve your band issues, I would suggest that concentrating on improving your playing, and getting out there and making connections are a couple of areas you could look at. On that last point I've always found that the better bands don't need to advertise for musicians, they spend their time hanging around with musicians, and whenever a vacancy arises they can ask one of their mates, or if they don't have any bass playing mates who are available, they can ask their mates if they know any good bass players who are free. If nobody knows you at the moment then you're never getting that call, and it's down to you to change that. It's not necessarily an easy thing to get into, but going to jam nights, or playing in bands that aren't playing exactly the music that you want to do gets you a bit more experience, and gets you known among local musicians. And it works both ways, you'll get to know the other local musicians and you'll have contacts that you can ask to join your band. And if you really hate the music you're playing, you can always quit, but at least you'll have done something in the meantime. In summary, keep your current band going if you're making music that you like, but maybe think about going and doing something else at the same time, even if it's not exactly what you want to be doing.

he always treated us well otherwise, which is what made it jar a little - if the crowds were good then he'd pay us extra, and if the crowds were poor (it really dropped off after the 2008 recession hit) he'd make a point of paying us even though he was losing money, and inviting us back. We weren't doing it for the money so we didn't mind, and he made sure that we were never out of pocket, we certainly weren't going to earn money, more because it was a great place to play. I wouldn't say that we expected the food, or were disappointed not to get any - we wouldn't have expected to be fed if we were playing the pub five miles away - but when you do get fed it does stick out

ha - we did exactly the same thing! Well, we didn't change it to the Davey Boys, but, you know

Having heard an interview with him about the book, he does seem to have spent the last few years obsessively playing his basses to compare and contrast the tone (and the book has a comparison of basses for every year of Fender Jazz production over the time period to see whether he can hear the differences) so I wonder if he either had one where it did improve the tone back in the day so he defaulted to changing the bridge/tailpiece without ever checking the individual instruments, or if the snake oil of magic extra sustain has worn off. Or, you know, drugs. Perhaps I should read what he's saying properly then...

I've only skimmed through my copy, but I'm pretty sure he says that having been convinced at the time that the Badass improved the sustain, he now thinks he was probably wrong about it

Not really function fodder (though we did do a couple of catered parties and a wedding), but an old punk covers band of mine had a set that was already half full of "oh yeah, I remember that one" songs - stuff that was in the charts back in the late '70's and old punks would recognise and enjoy but were unlikely to be recognised by everybody (which was fine, we didn't tend to get a lot on non-punks at our gigs) However, the one song that always went down an absolute storm and quickly became the final encore of the night was Fight For Your Right To Party by the Beastie Boys

I've done it off and on, more BVs than lead. To echo a lot of what has already been said, for me I have to know how to play the bass line well enough without concentrating on it, then move on to the vocals. But there would be certain things where the different timing of each part would make it impossible. In one band where we sacked the singer and couldn't find a replacement for ages, the rest of us shared out the vocals to see if we could keep ticking over, and there was one song where one of the guitarists could manage the choruses but not the verses, and I could manage the verses but not the choruses so in summary, make sure you write all of the vocal melodies yourself, and structure those around what you can sing while playing the bass line

the worst one was The Trooper - the combination of the lead guitarist's lack of feel and timing, and the rhythm guitarist's lack of talent, the harmony guitar parts, while technically having the correct notes in the correct order and with the correct harmony intervals, all sound abysmal, like they are playing a completely different melody which is a problem when people are supposed to recognise the song. It was one of the tracks on our demo, and the lead makes up for it by playing a brilliant, note perfect solo...he then lets the rhythm guitarist has a go for the second solo and it undoes all of that good work, like somebody with broken fingers falling down the stairs

I note that Amazon now show it as available within 1-2 months, so basically it's not in stock and they're not sure when they're getting any more. You might be OK, but Amazon do have a habit of doing this and then sending you a slow and steady stream if e-mails saying that they aren't sure when they'll have it and you might want to cancel your order and find it elsewhere. I had an order for a load of lightscribe CDRs that was open for about two years before they eventually admitted that they weren't going to be getting any more.

I wouldn't say it's a cultural thing, more that it's so unexpected that when it happens you remember it as being a really nice gesture. An old band of mine used to play an excellent music pub about three hours drive away - we always got on with the landlord and he treated us brilliantly. But despite doing a roaring trade in food and drink all night, and knowing that we'd have set off mid-afternoon and wouldn't be in until the small hours, he never once offered us as much as a free pint or a bowl of chips

Of course, sometimes it's down to the limitations of one or more band members. I was in a metal covers band, and me, the drummer and the lead guitarist would assiduously learn the recorded versions of the songs (me and the drummer especially...the lead guitarist had an awful sense of rhythm so sometimes his phrasing was a little off, albeit that he would have the right chords). Then we had the rhythm guitarist, who was a great bloke, but very much there to make up the numbers. The irony was that he probably worked harder than anybody else in the band, and was playing to his absolute limit at all times...just his limit was quite often below the level required to play the song correctly. He'd the resort to tabs when playing the songs at home, and if he got an arrangement into his head it would stick there - more than once we spent a good chunk of time correcting what he was doing at a practice, it would sound great, then next week he'd come to practice and play it the wrong way again. We recorded a demo - all I can say is thank the deity of your choice for Pro Tools

I depped with a band for a couple of gigs at Christmas, which was all fast, technical death metal, meaning that the sound on their early albums was awful, just mush with no discernible bass. But it mostly followed the guitar so I found a few guitar tabs and tried learning some of the bass from that. Not one had the correct guitar lines I don’t mean not getting the correct chord shape, but actually getting the melody completely wrong. the odd thing was that they usually fitted so I did use a couple to try and work out the bass but whenever I’d take it into the studio there would be a shake of the head from the guitarists, no, that’s not what we play...