Monkey Steve

I think it's a difficult balance - what if the founder is the weak link (and no suggestion that Paul from the OP is in WKNJ so this is more of a philosophical question)? Should band members who have put years of work into the band put up with them, or split the band up just because they want to pack it in? Though it does feel odd when a band like Tank are still touring and recording with nobody that was on the first two albums still in the band I was once in a similar-ish position, last to join (although for practical purposes always regarded as a founding member - they were a band who had been practising and writing a few songs without any bass player for a few months, and didn't start playing live until I arrived) and a few years of gigging down the line it was apparent that we needed to shed one of the guitarists. So we all got together, invited him to the pub and sacked him, in the nicest "it's not you, it's us" way possible. I always found him to be a bit of an odd bloke and we were never close friends, but we did move in the same circles at that time, although I've rarely seen him since. But when I did there was a very chilly air that didn't extend to the rest of the band. It became apparent that he'd been slagging me off to all and sundry as being the one who had ousted him from his band - it had all been fine before I arrived, and i was the last one in so it wasn't my place to get rid of him, etc. Didn't actually bother me in the slightest and I've never suffered because of it, but it was very noticeable that I was thought not to be a full member of the band despite having written or co-written almost all of the songs. In fact the only thing I hadn't had any input into was the band name (which I always hated)

shame. I'm usually on the side of those who want to play more and accept every gig (and one of my bugbears is those band members who claim to be really dedicated when the band forms...and then you find that their definition of "really dedicated" is playing whenever the football isn't on or the garden needs weeding, etc) but that's not the case here, it's clearly that life is currently throwing some of the brown smelly stuff at you. If they can't allow for that then they're not really very good human beings Good luck with your future project - hope it takes off any they're begging you for a support slot before too long.

Nirvana - In Utero A prolonged cry of pain from a man about to kill himself

I'm interested to know how long it had been building up for. I've only ever quit two bands, and on both occasions it followed a long period of really not looking forward to rehearsals or gigs because of the guitarist's behaviour (different guitarists, similar behaviour), And both times it was with the same drummer who quit with me, after a long period of us complaining to each other about how unhappy we were with the guitarist. I'd compare it quite closely to dumping as girlfriend - a long period of unhappiness and wanting to split up but not really wanting to actually do it, and then regardless of how uncomfortable the actual quitting/dumping was, immense relief that you don't have another unhappy weekend ahead of you and you can move on YMMV

love the Breeders - booked a trip to Dublin for my 40th and they just happened to be playing that night...everything is a bit hazy after an afternoon of being guided round the pubs by one of the natives, but I'm pretty sure they were excellent

apart from some excellent treatment, what really made the difference for me was some excellent bandmates, in fact just excellent mates, who did all the heavy lifting for me for a good few months until I was completely over it (and touch wood it's never come back in either arm and I'm back lifting whatever need lifting). they'd already done the same when I broke a leg a few years previously. Sometimes you find out who your real mates are whem things like this happen

well for me, it's four then four then four then four... I thought it was triplets all the way (apart from the twiddly bits, obvs) but I may be getting it wrong - can't say I ever tried to absolutely replicate it note for note, more that everybody seems happy with what I'm playing ... perhaps a more dedicated Harris fan can help?

it was definitely lumping Mesa Boogie cabs up and down flights of stairs that caused my tennis elbow. That and being a man, so completely ignoring the pain and continuing to lug that cabs for far longer than I should have

I've had, well, similar if not exactly the same sort of experiences, certainly similar ones of getting to the pub and finding that nobody there has given a single second's though to where to put the band so that the punters who want to hear them can do so. Worst one I had was in an oddly shaped pub with two separate, large bars and an alcove/snug that was round the corner and through some doors from both of them. We turn up, ask where we're playing, the barman scratches his head and points at the snug. we set up and while there is room for one or two dedicated punters to fit into the room with us nobody else can either see or hear us. When we tried to address this through the cunning use of volume we had to turn it back down as it was uncomfortably loud just to get any noise to make it through into the next bar. So we played for about three people, and everybody else who had come to see us arrived, saw that there wasn't a band playing in the main bars, and left. Usually an indication that the chain has given them an allocation for hiring a band and the manager thinks that having hired a band he's done all the hard work and they just need to wait for the punters to roll in. And no doubt they'll be blaming you for not bringing the crowds in, so next week they'll try another band and the same thing will happen. In the case above we couldn't believe it when they paid us and asked when we next had a gap in the diary...we took the money, and did the same thing the next month before giving it up as a bad idea.

for me this is a bit reductive. I listen to stuff that is in the style of music i play in all of my assorted bands over the years, but I've always listened to stuff outside of those genres and there's loads of styles that I listen to and have never really played. So it's sort of yes, I do listen to the style of music that I play, but no, I don't play all of the styles of music that I listen to. What is certainly true is that if I'm in a band playing one particular style then I'll usually find myself listening to more of that genre than previously, whether it's originals or covers, not consciously, more that I seem to be more drawn to listening to the Clash if I've been playing in an old school punk band. The only time I can think of where that didn't happen was where the band made a specific point of not pinning itself to a particular musical style. We always sounded like ourselves, it wasn't like we'd be playing a punk song one minute and a funk song the next, but we didn't worry about what "we" were and restrict ourselves by thinking "well we can't do that because we're a *insert genre here* band"

for the topic in general, while I much prefer playing originals and writing my own bass lines, I have to admit to having learned a lot about music in general from learning how to play other people's songs. Sometimes it's technique, but mostly it's about the choice of note and song structure, that I can understand what somebody else did in a similar circumstance and that gives me more choice than simply playing the root in time with the rhythm guitarist. This is particularly true about playing the guitar and chord structures. Eventually it becomes part of your own style, and we're all magpies when it comes down to it

I used to do the Trooper in a covers band and struggled with the gallop, and it's come up as a suggestion for a new band so I've been giving it a go and have managed to crack it with a very minor tweak in my technique. This may not work for you as I'm aware that I have an, ahem, unusual style (I hammer the strings with my finger tips, think John Entwistle but less developed) but if it helps, try the gallop with all four fingers. There was something in holding back my little finger that seemed to make my tendons seize up really quickly, but now that I include the little finger (which hits the strings in time with the ring finger, or close enough that you don't hear that the three is really a four) it doesn't seem to hurt and i can play the song without any issues. As I say, may just be me. My tendon pains are a story for a different thread...

If you are going to do it and cut out the amp completely, then you might want to look at an amp simulator. I use an Ampeg SVT when allowed to have my amp on stage, but for most gigs I'm DI'd and go through a Tech 21 VT Bass pedal, now augmented with an Ampeg SCR-DI for extra SVT tone. If you don't need to replicate the tone of the amp then you might want to look at something just for the signal eq that you would otherwise do before it hits the cab (depending on how well that can be replicated through the PA)

Excellent. Nambucca is an OK venue to play...but there isn't much passing trade. It's the "wrong" end of Holloway for people to get to just to see who might be on. Mind you, I've not played there for about four or five years so it may have improved. Best hope for them is to be on with some popular headliners, and to promote the hell out of it themselves

again, depends on the band and the set up. If I'm being DI'd then it's set up whatever pedals I have (might be a board, might just be a tuner and an amp simulator) into the DI box, tune up and then adjust whatever backline I'm going through on stage to see if I am likely to get enough volume to hear myself over the drums (I tend to be pretty relaxed about how much I can hear on stage so it's not a biggie) If it's through backline rather than DI then it probably adds a few minutes to the process, and at a gig where I'm providing the backline I'm probably also bringing a spare bass and some stands, and possibly also providing the PA. But still boils down to plug in, tune up, do some basic checks for tone (not much) and wait for the soundcheck. I tend to be fairly relaxed about the set up - drummers take a bit longer but the more experienced ones tend to do as much before they get on to the stage as possible. What mostly winds me up are guitarists when you get to the soundchecking part of the evening...actually, when they're setting up too, all the dicking around with their amps for unnoticeable differences in tone, which they then repeat when the soundcheck actually starts.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1509912195' post='3402581'] Do their guests want to hear a live band? We've played a few weddings because the couples were fans of the band. In all cases their guests were not thrilled and would have been perfect happy with a DJ only. Blue [/quote] Best wedding band I ever saw was a couple of years ago when the drummer from my then band (from a fairly posh English family from Chelsea - son of a judge) married a hindu girl from Birmingham. they found a band that mixed indian and western music brilliantly - just spectacularly good, not a hint of cheese or being a "wedding band" (apologies to those of you who are in wedding bands). Nobody there was a "fan" of the band beforehand but it worked to bring everybody (including a load of musicians from the death metal world) together. And what really worked (and back to Blue's point) was that the venue allowed everybody that wanted to see the band to watch them in a large room with a stage, and everybody else (largely the wrinklies) could remain in the bar or dining room. So no unhappy punters staring at the band and waiting for them to shut up. Also, lots of free booze all day. That helped too.

Never minded the hours for parties and weddings (though, only ever played a couple) but the OP flags one thing that really does wind me up, which is that everybody thinks it's OK to come up and mess about with your gear (or as may be the case here, to let their kids muck about with your gear). that and the fact that nobody has come to see you, so basic civility can go out of the window as you become regarded as the hired help. And unlike a pub gig where you can tell them to eff off, you do feel a bit more like you have to be nice and let them get away with it. Lesson learned - pack away/switch off anything that can be packed away/switched off when you're not on stage. that way all they can muck about with are the drums, and that's not your problem

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1509985153' post='3403035'] My whole identify and self worth evolves around being in a reputable known gigging band. I have a hard time when we have a weekend off. Jam nights, the ones in my area are not for me. The Musicians that attend are the guys that are not in bands and certainly don't have gigs. It takes years in most cases to keep a band together to the point where people are calling you requesting your band. Marketing and getting gigs is not easy in any sense. Especially for those that want to gig 2-3 times a week. Blue [/quote] yes, but I think we're talking about different things. I'm talking about finding people to play with for the fun of being in a band and you're talking about finding a band that pays you enough to earn your living. that's a completely separate topic

another Encore fan here - I learned on an Encore Coaster that I bought new in the late '80's - P copy with a pointy headstock (see: late '80's). I could choose either a red or a black one, and I think it was about £100. Not exciting, but very functional and an excellent first bass, with which they flogged me a no name beaten up practice combo that worked fine. Took it to pieces, worked out how a bass fits together, rewired it, resprayed it, and flogged it on when I needed cash for an upgrade a couple of years later (to a s/h 1975 Rick 4001, that I still have and gigged with for years, great bass). Of course, Encore's may have got worse since then. For all my praise of Encores, I think the quality of the cheaper end of the market has definitely improved - things like Yamaha Pacificas, Squires, etc are way better than what we could generally get in that price bracket back then, and I'm sure that the £100 I paid would get you a lot better quality gear these days when adjusted for inflation (which google tells me is about £250). However, what we did have was a very reasonably priced second hand market. Me and everyone I played in bands with had Marshall valve heads from the 1970's - I had a Super Bass II from 1978. You went to Macaris and they had piles of them for £200, bit like thumbing your way through the racks in TK Maxx, keep going until you find the 100W bass head. And my first guitar amp was a '70's, grey fronted Marshall Super Lead II combo for £150 from the local music shop. Mates all picked up cheap second hand Ibanez guitars for about £80 which were looked down on because they were made in Japan, and they dreamed of being able to afford a Fender (some still have them and swear by the necks to this day). When i was looking to upgrade the Encore I went to the Bass Centre in Wapping and remember trying a couple of Gibson EB2's (didn't like the scale length) which I think were about £450 (a fortune!), Rickenbacker twin necks, piles of Wals all at prices we would marvel at today, etc. perhaps its my memory playing tricks but my impression is that what we thought of as really expensive back then was a lot less than what we think of as quite reasonable now, even adjusted for inflation...mind you, it's not that long ago you could get a German made Warwick brand new for a third of what they charge now...

I'm two weeks on from a steroid injection for a trigger finger. It only started after I broke the finger about a year ago, and it's healed very crooked and I've been getting some hand therapy (not as much fun as it sounds). Anyway, they spotted that I couldn't close the finger due to the trigger finger, not the break. Not a pleasant injection, and the local anaesthetic sent three fingers numb for a couple of days (and I still haven't got the feeling back completely in one finger tip, but it's more or less OK) and then really painful in the rest of the hand for a few days. Then a week later I can close my finger like normal, so I'm back to just having the issues from the break. I'm told that either it'll stick or it won't and they won't know for certain for about six months. As somebody who's never had a steroid injection that's worked before, and a Type 1 Diabetic which is top of the list of "people who the injection might not work for" I was gearing up for this to be the painful step i had to go through before they operate to fix it. But so far so good

I think it's also the company we keep. I've got into it on other threads, but personally I've never worried about not being in a band, something always turns up sooner or later. Sometimes it's a month or two, sometimes it's a couple of years. I probably worried about it more when i was younger, but experience shows that at some point somebody's going to want a bass player and they'll come and ask me. In fact I've never answered an ad or auditioned for a band - I've either started one or been asked to join. Which I think is mostly to do with the people i hang out with, which includes a lot of mates that I've been in bands with over the years. Two recent trips to the pub have led to three different "we might need a bass player" conversations, and this after not really playing for a couple of years. They may or may not come off (one looks more likely, given the people involved) but they're all interesting enough and all come about from being in the right place at the right time. You don't have to be the bore in the pub who is forever banging on about wanting to be in a band, it's more spotting the opportunity to say "I'd be up for that" when it arises. I do appreciate that not everybody will have been in bands for years and if not then you won't have a load of former band mates who know to ask you, so probably you do need to start making contacts. The suggestion to go to a jam night is a very good one, especially if you haven't got the confidence to answer ads. It's not for me personally, but I know a couple of bands that started that way, and people from those bands then went on to others with their new contacts.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1509031991' post='3396188'] Lars will never do it. Because he's a twonk. [/quote] but think of the sales if they do...

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1509014782' post='3396008'] That reminds me of the Shed 7 fan club hoax where they announced that they would be touring a set made up entirely of Led Zeppelin covers and calling themselves Shed Zeppelin. [/quote] I did once go and see Dredd Zeppelin at the Marquee - an front man dressed as Elvis with a band doing Zep covers in a reggae style. I seem to remember they released a couple of albums.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1509017663' post='3396041'] Justice is a stunning album. It's just got a terrible mix. [/quote] I'm intrigued to see whether that's something they'll address if/as and when they get round to a deluxe reissue. The original mix wasn't an issue on the previous albums (and the Master Of Puppets box set arrives next month, but the only sound issue on the original release was the clarity on the original 1 x 33.3 vinyl pressing that was fixed when they re-pressed it on 2 x 45's a few months later) but it's been a bit of a thing for Justice since it was released. It'd be a real opportunity missed if they ignore it

In answer to Blue, it's become a sort of metal/goth version of Christmas, and this weekend there'll be a load of Halloween themed metal gigs and club nights. Not exclusively metal, but that's definitely the lion's share in London. I'm actually going to see a mate's band at the Underworld in Camden on Saturday, which is just the London date on their tour, so isn't Halloween themed (but is metal). But it's an early curfew as it's a club night afterwards and that is very Halloween themed indeed.