Monkey Steve

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1498419327' post='3324478'] I got it and also had the steroid shot- choosing the right doctor is critical as you're only allowed three in any one area in your lifetime I got my first from a surgeon in my wrist and it was spot on. Second in my elbow was from a visiting trainee GP - not encouraging you'd think - she was nervous but absolutely nailed it Don't rest it, keep working it gently [/quote] [quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1498419565' post='3324481'] Not sure where you heard that but I have had more than three in several places, perhaps it was in a year? One of my knees has had seven over a ten year period (seems to like one about every 14- 16 months!). Agree on the differing quality of the people doing it. All my recent ones, except fingers, have been done with the aid of unltrasound and that seems to make a massive difference as I guess they can be that much more accurate. [/quote] I had a consultant tell me about the three steroid injections in a lifetime, specifically over tennis elbow. They gave me two that didn't work and then referred me for some (at the time) slightly experimental treatment (we covered this on another thread - it's now quite conventional, PRP injections, although in my day it was just some of my own blood they'd drawn out of the other arm). I was told that they were giving up on the steroid at that point because it clearly wasn't working and they wanted to "save" the third one in case I need it later in life. However, this http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/steroid-injections/Pages/Introduction.aspx says it's three in a twelve month period (again, not what i was told, but things change over time - my experience was close to a decade ago) Back to the OP...my tennis elbow was where I'd properly shredded the tendon, most likely from lugging cabs up and down the stairs to my first floor flat. One big point to make was that it helped hugely to avoid doing that (and any other medium to heavy lifting) while the treatments were taking hold (fortunately I had some understanding band mates). Good luck.

I had to google it to see which came first - Monsters of Rock at Donnington (August 1985) or Knebworth (turns out that was June 1985 so that one wins). I'm discounting Status Quo's farewell gig at Selhurst Park in 1984 - it was an all day event, but billed as Quo with a lot of support bands, not a festival. Deep Purple (and I remember it being a Deep Purple gig, the first after reforming, rather than a festival per se, but Google shows me it was actually billed as Knebworth festival that they were headlining), Scorpions, UFO, Mountain, Blackfoot, Meat Loaf, Mamas Boys and Alaska. I remember a lot of rain, mud, and waiting around for Deep Purple to come on. Monsters of Rock was actually far more memorable, not least for it being the first time I'd seen Metallica.

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1498248549' post='3323457'] I used to buy Metallica but they've been mostly sh*te for years now so i gave up on them. [/quote] Can't kick the habit...keep thinking the next album's goIng to be better...keep being let down...

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1498247860' post='3323450'] I prefer the 70's stuff. But I guess you had to be there [/quote] Yep, Mick Taylor for me, not much I've liked by the Stones since he left

I have a list... I used AC/DC to start this on the other thread, but the biggest offenders for me are Metallica. If you weren't there you might not appreciate just how good the first three albums were at the time kick starting thrash metal, and the the Garage Days EP was great...I've bought every album since and don't like any of them. In fairness I've seen them live a lot since then and they've never done a bad show

I just remembered that an old band of mine once made a point of bringing all of our instruments along to a shared bill gig purely to annoy another band. This was a few years ago (like 20+) and I can't remember the exact details but they'd done something to annoy us ahead of the gig and we thought they were dicks. I can't remember if it was just to take up as much time as possible at the soundcheck so they couldn't get theirs done in time, or if they had much worse gear and were really sensitive about it. Because clearly the best response to somebody being a dick to you is to be a bigger dick in response.

[quote name='Atomic dustbin' timestamp='1498225735' post='3323285'] I think you put that quite well. If I had heard Kid A first I would never have listened to them again! I first heard them when I saw them live. A wall of sound! I went straight out and bought the tape. Still got it I think. What you said about ACDC is probably something I could say about a lot of bands over the years. Manic Street Preachers definitely fall into that category for me. [/quote] yeah, there's loads of bands I could have put there instead of AC/DC...perhaps that for another thread, bands whose albums you still buy out of loyalty despite knowing that you're not really going to like it very much. On Radiohead specifically, I'm with those who think The Bends was their best, I liked OK Computer, saw them live on Kid A tour and loved that (and really tried to get into that album...didn't stick) and I've been an occasional purchaser ever since. I keep meaning to buy the latest one as the reviews seem to be saying it's the most accessible one for some time.

I'd be interested in when you first heard Radiohead - their stuff after OK Computer can be a bit, ahem, challenging, and even their more popular early stuff can take a bit of getting in to. I do sometimes wonder with bands like this who have a lot of success early on whether later listeners can get the wrong impression. For instance, if you were wondering why everybody loves AC/DC so you bought their latest album to see what they're like you'd probably be thinking "well I'm not sure what the fuss is about".

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1498189809' post='3323012'] However.I think the opinions from Bass Chatters on this thread are unique, diverse and invaluable. [/quote] This. I don't see what the drama is - I'm finding it interesting to see how different people interpret the same ad from their own perspective, whether that's experience or outlook (and I know that me and Blue have very different perspectives on what we want from a band) and to see how much importance people pin to the wording of the ad. Surely that's the best kind of forum, to see what people who have a completely different opinion think about things without the need to get abusive? There are plenty of other threads if you don't like this one. The only shame is that there won't be a pay off - we're never going to find out their ages, the style of music and what exactly they mean by a "fun gig"...unless somebody does send them an e-mail...

to be clear, you are simply wanting to send the same signal from your boss to two completely separate amps? Each amp has it's own completely separate cab and there is nothing connecting anything other than the shared/split input from the bass? Edit: having seen Dannybuoy's post which seems based on the answer to my question being 'yes', I'd add my vote for a LS-2 - it's more of an A/B box but I'm sure mine can do what you want. It's got a few whistles and bells so something simpler may do just as well

clearly it's not for somebody looking for a regular income. I'd also question whether they have a very strong band leader based on the share of writing comment, and I think that is probably what will influence who replies more than anything else - somebody who doesn't want to be a hired hand but wants to have a creative role in a band playing originals and a say in the band. In isolation that would appeal to me. The "levelheaded" bit makes me think older - no self respecting 19 year old is going to want somebody in their band who expressly isn't a complete rock n roll animal. My guess is a bad experience with the last bass player which suggests a bit of experience and I'd pitch the ages at mid 20's to mid 30's. It may be that this is the experience of band members rather than the band itself - I can't tell whether the band has been around for a while (albeit that they have some bookings) or if they're fairly new and just getting started. The mix of covers and originals would put me off completely - it's not impossible to mix the two but IMHO it rarely works very well - the covers crowd and originals crowd are very different beasts (says the man who went to see the Cancer Bats playing a set of Black Sabbath songs last night...maybe they're the exception that proves the rule) and if it's more than a set of originals with the odd cover thrown in then I wouldn't be interested at all. This also makes me think that they're not older than mid 30's as I would expect them to have learned this by then...although I do know bands older than that who keep trying to break away from the covers circuit by adding a few originals...I've yet to see it work. The vagueness of the music wouldn't hook me either. It may be just that it's badly expressed - for instance if they said "bringing a whole load of different influences and styles together to make original music" then I would be far more intrigued...but I'd still want a basic idea - this could be metal, funk, or Coldplay. I think this is the biggest weakness, that by not giving any clue as to the basic genre it's ruling out everybody who wants to specifically play rock/metal/funk/soul/etc. Coldplay fans may still be interested... I'm not concerned about having no links - I agree that it would be far more helpful if it did, but some people just aren't good at that sort of thing, and it may simply be that the band is fairly new. I'm also a lot less critical of the "fun shows" bit. It could mean anything (and thus means nothing) so before writing it off as friend's parties I'd want more details. I think that's how i see the ad overall, an invitation to ask for more information. It wouldn't appeal to me personally, and I think it needs to be a lot more specific about the musical direction

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1498066476' post='3322340'] 64, making it like Maiden or Kiss, never even crosses my mind. Being able to pay my bills at the end of the month without working for the man is my definition of making it. Blue [/quote] Back to my mate's middle-aged-men's-weekend-tour band, the reason I'm in the frame to join (other than being really close to the lead guitarist) is that I'm playing bass in a recently formed covers band with all of the band's original members, with the idea of playing biker festivals and those sort of large events (and they have the connections to make the bookings). While there's a lot of stuff being spouted about having a blast playing covers of the music we loved in our youth, a far more succinct point was let slip by the band leader, that while the originals band will always be their passion and main focus, it would be nice to actually earn some proper money for a change and just get paid to play. And this is a band that can sell out the Underworld and play international festivals...not that that always means much more than getting your plane tickets paid for... On the topic of buy-ons, by coincidence I was discussing it last night with a friend who was main support on a european tour a couple of years ago. They have a bad reputation, like you are paying to play, but they should simply be covering shares tour expenses - you might be paying £6k but it could be costing the headliners £20k for the tour bus, roadies, merch sellers, etc that you will be sharing, and you still get your payment for the gig and your merch sales to offset against the cost. In his case they more or less broke even after a six week tour, and if you can do that and increase the band's profile then you've had a real result. However, he says he gets a lot of offers where there is clearly a pay just to play element - one band recently sent him two rates: one if they use the tour bus, etc and one if they make all their own arrangements and just show up to play. Not tempting for him (he knows the band's position, fanbase and likely merch sales very well and has long since given up on the fairytale that one great tour will break them to the next level) but they can get away with it because some band will always think that it's a great opportunity...

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1498036608' post='3322076'] Indeed, and I think if my hopes were still pinned entirely to the band then I would be more ready to dig in my heels and fight my corner. The difference now is that I quite like my current job, and I've a family to support. Sure, it would break my heart to walk away from six years' labour of love, but it won't kill me to be without a band for a little while. And admittedly, setting up something new, on my own terms (perhaps a bit like Steve's mate's "middle-aged-men tour" described above) is starting to sound appealing. [/quote] yep, life'll always get in the way. Me and a couple of non-breeder mates have a running joke/bet of how long musicians we know (on the non/semi-pro circuit) will remain in their bands once they have kids. A mate of mine was in an almost identical position to you (in terms of band profile and being on the verge of stepping up to the next level) at the end of last year when the job of his dreams came up that would require him to quit the band and move several hundred miles away. Being a grown up the decision was easy and he took the job - he's secured his family's future and does something he loves which would never come up again in a million years. But when his grown up brain is taking a nap he does have regrets... I do wonder if your drummer is thinking that "making it" will lead to the rewards that Kiss and Maiden got in the '70's & 80's. I know some people from bands that are household names that barely make ends meet and have to have jobs when they come back off tour. One "big in the '80s but still going and making great music now" lot have a roster of band members that gets ever younger as the hired hands can't get by for more than a few years and need a more regular source of higher income. they can't believe that the drummer has been with them for so long as he's the only one with kids who's lasted more than a couple of years. usually they have to leave and are replaced by a younger model who's happy to play in a name band and live a cut down version of the rock n roll dream. And for all that they play good venues and tour the world, they mostly rely on T-shirt sales to pay the bills.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1497973996' post='3321749'] As I wrote above ^^, I'm more towards the 'deaf' end of the scale, but have, and never have had, any problems hearing the bass drum I'm playing (pretty standard 22", full drum heads both sides, Camco 5-piece kit...). There must be quite a racket going on all around to drown out a bass drum, even when playing more lightly, except (again, as stated above...) on large open-air stages, where [i]all [/i]the sounds seem to dissipate (into thin air..? ). Maybe it's just me, though, although I doubt that; t'would be a 'first'..! [/quote] All i can think is that either it's a definite "thing" in some drummer circles, that mic'ing up the BD is the done thing (a drummers equivalent of those here that insist that Fenders must have flats, etc), or that they've had some unfortunate experience (either comments about their BD not being heard or listening back to a tape of a gig or rehearsal) and are trying to solve it with the mic. ah well, it's the mysteries of life that make it so interesting...

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497971094' post='3321718'] I guess if you're playing cymbals quite loud, and your bass drum beater is a felty/foamy/soft thing, then the dull thud isn't going to cut through quite as much. If you're sat right on the kit, that might be more of an issue than being further away where you might be able to appreciate the low frequency punch of the bass drum a bit more relative to the cymbals I have a wooden beater with no front head for when I'm playing rock/metal as this gives me plenty of high-mid "thwack" and I have no problem hearing it un-amplified vs full stacks EDIT: Sorry, to be more direct, no, there's nothing about the bass drum that should make it quieter than the rest of the kit from the drummer's POV [/quote] Thanks Tom - that makes sense. Although it brings me round in circles to why the drummers I know insist on mic'ing it up when everybody else things it's loud enough...probably best not to delve too deeply into the drummers mind...

lifted wholesale from my old punk covers lot and based on how few chords on the guitar were required (apologies if I repeat some that have already been suggested) Pistols: Pretty Vacant, God Save The Queen, Anarchy In The UK Clash: White Riot - also doubles up as being musically almost identical as Two Pints Of Lager & A Packet Of Crisps Please by Splodgenesabounds Ramones: Sheena Is A Punk Rocker, Blitzkreig Bop, I Wanna Be Sedated Tenpole Tudor - Swords Of A Thousand Men Ruts - Babylon's Burning (also In A Rut, easy but a bit of a dirge) Only Ones - Another Girl, Another Planet (disclaimer - it's a lot of work to get the guitar solos right, but the bass and rhythm guitar are a piece of p#ss) Damned - Neat, Neat, Neat Stranglers - No More Heroes (again, lead guitar and the arrangement take a bit or work, but the actual bass lines are really simple) Elvis Costello - (I Don't Want To Go To) Chelsea Green Day - Basket Case Still Little Fingers - Alternative Ulster (but again, the arrangement takes a bit of work) And another vote for Fight For Your Right To Party - we always did that as an encore and it brought the house down.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497961584' post='3321624'] hmmm, I'm a drummer and I used to like to mic up the kick drum. I found that when playing rock music, I'd get carried away twatting the snare and cymbals extremely hard, and couldn't get the kick drum to match. Obviously that's crap technique but it never occurred to me to change it until I started playing folk in tiny pubs with no drum mics - you have to do your own mix then! So now I match the level of the kick drum to the others (well, slightly louder actually) so it doesn't matter if I'm mic'd up [/quote] [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1497964388' post='3321649'] I play drums in another band and If I play the BD hard, at a pub gig, the glasses shake on the bar. And thats with a 20" un miced full front head. There is no need to mic a kit at all for small gigs. For rehearsals I always drape my coat over the front head to keep the volume down. Drums can be loud, bloody loud If you play them hard, but If you have control you can play them very softly. [/quote] What I'm interested in (and apologies to the OP for completely hijacking the thread) is whether, given this spread of opposing theories, it's a matter of the bass drum actually being quieter than the rest of the kit, or if it's the drummer's position meaning that they can hear the rest of the kit much louder and assuming (incorrectly) that the BD needs amplifying (like the guitarist standing too close to his amp and thinking that he is much quieter than everybody else)? Because my experience of standing in front of the drum kits in question was that the BD was plenty loud and we tended to let them mic it up to make them feel better about their sound rather than because it needed it.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1497955169' post='3321541'] This ^^ makes no sense to me. assuming you're meaning 'at live gigs', and not rehearsal (there's really no need to mic up a kit for rehearsals..!), then surely it's a call for the sound engi to make as to whether to have the drums miced, and how, and maybe (just maybe..?) feed some back to the drummer's foldback if he/she needs it..? I can't imagine how or why a drummer would want to dictate what the FOH gets; even less the monitors for the others..! Maybe I'm unusual, but when I've been playing my drums, in any formation over a long career, it's never once occurred to me to amplify what I can already hear very well indeed (and I'm now rather deaf, due to ageing..!). Very rarely, usually on open-air 'festival' type stages, I've wanted a touch of BD in my foldback, but even then only a tad. Is this common amongst drummers, then..? What have I been missing all these decades..? [/quote] Exactly, it makes no sense to me either, but I've been in two different bands with drummers who insist that the bass drum needs to be mic'd at all times (and to be clear, it's been in the studio and at pub gigs where we'd do our own sound, situations where he could have a say, not where an engineer is sorting it out). Not all drummers, but it was definitely a "thing" with the pair of them. And like you, I can't understand it...just thought I'd ask

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1497953544' post='3321523'] [b]Edit:[/b] Jesus, that went on a bit, didn't it? Sorry for the length, but it was good to consolidate my thoughts... [/quote] That's OK, treat it like a confessional... I think this is an issue for a lot of bands, and it's one of my annoyances with bandmates - people have different ideas about what "commitment" means. I can see it from both sides and funnily enough had a very similarly themed conversation with a mate about joining his band recently. he is very much on your drummer's side - sees himself as a musician who only does the day job to keep a roof over his head and would give it up in a heartbeat if his (name) band could make a decent living. He's always had that focus and has been like that since teenage years. But when he asked me about possibly replacing his incumbent bass player I set out my stall - I'm not about to give up my job to go on tours. Fortunately for me it isn't a huge issue: the rest of the band are all in my position, men of a certain age who need to book time off from jobs that they cannot afford to lose for anything midweek - this year their autumn tour will be staged over several weekends so they only need to take Friday's off. So, hooray for me, but it doesn't help you at all. The problem is that nobody with a different idea of what "commitment" looks like is ever going to see it another way - my own frustration is usually with band members who view being "very committed" as rehearsing once a week if they don't have anything else to do that night and playing gigs if their girlfriend hasn't made other plans. And even people who I would view as "very committed" can be completely inflexible in their approach - their view of how to make it in music (despite never having made it in music) is to do A then B then C, so they simply will not consider doing D even of everybody else thinks its a good idea. There is perhaps one thing that does apply from my mate's band's middle aged men tour, which is that apart from holiday entitlements, they are also reflecting the realities of the music scene, that playing on a Friday or Saturday night will bring out a far bigger crowd than playing on a school night. They did the same last year and noticed much smaller crowds on the Sunday night gigs. I've seen mates playing in established bands who couldn't get a crowd out to the Dog & Duck on a Tuesday night but would sell out the Civic Hall on a Saturday. The market has changed and taking the model of how to make it in 1972 doesn't really help now. As you're finding, using social media to build a following and playing bigger, better quality gigs, is a smart thing to do, but it's also perhaps giving the drummer the wrong impression: gigs are working brilliantly so let's play more of them...I'm not sure that you're ever going to agree on this. And he may simply really, really love playing gigs - I know I'd rather be playing than being at home watching TV. But i can see that Tuesday at the Dog and Duck in front of six people isn't helping the band whereas Saturday at the Civil Hall is. I also note your frustrations over the drummers inability to explain or back up his ideas...well, he is a drummer, what do you expect? Two practical suggestions before you jack it all in, which would be real shame if you're on the verge of great things. First, you all need to sit down and agree a plan for the next year. Emphasis on "agree". And be prepared to listen (and hope that everybody else will too). Know your red lines and stick to those, and try to get everybody else to honestly declare theirs. If everybody else wants to be on tour playing every night of the week then it'll give you a very clear message about your future involvement. Second, have you got any management or a gig booker? Rather than spending all of your time sorting out the gigs and promotion that clearly isn't being appreciated by the band members who don't do it, see if somebody else can take the strain for you. Hopefully somebody with the right contacts and experience who can give you some advice on how best to move to the next level.

Personally my last few bands haven't suffered from excess drummer volume in the studio - whether by luck or judgement. maybe it depends on the size of the studio, or whatever other variable, it's not that I've only played with very quiet drummers. Thinking about it, I have typically been using studios that had plenty of space, so perhaps it's more of an issue if you're stuck in a shoe box. ...however, I was thinking about bass drum volume the other day (triggered by the Download thread mentioning bass drums being too loud in the mix) and specifically my experience of drummers who will insist on having their bass drums mic'd up. I wonder if it's the drummers version of the "amp pointing at the knee" thing, that it's the one drum they can't hear because it's not pointing at them so they assume that nobody can hear it. I've never understood why the ones that insist on it do so when everybody else is constantly telling them that everybody in the studio/pub can hear the bass drum just fine...

back to the OP, have you tried playing around with the amp positioning? Including the guitarist, not just you? From experience, most of the volume problems I've had come from guitarists standing right next to their amps, with the speakers pointing towards their knees, complaining that they can't hear themselves (what with then not having ears in their knees) and that everybody else is too loud, and turning up...cue everybody else doing exactly the same because they can hear the guitar amp blasting out but not themselves because they are standing next to their amp which is pointing at their knees...and an hour of petty squabbles about who's fault it is that it's far too loud. If you have two guitarists then this can go on for weeks... Personal preference is to set everybody according to the level of the drums, with the speakers/cabs elevated or tilted up so that they are pointed at ears rather than knees, and the musician standing at least six feet away, ideally more. Other instruments should be loud enough to be able to hear themselves above the drums and provide the relevant cues to everybody else but no louder. Singer gets final say on everything because they need to be able to hear themselves properly and if the instruments are drowning out the PA then everybody loses.

I typically like a slightly higher action that the basses come with when a professional has done the set up or as they come from new. If it's too low then the pickups will distort thanks to my somewhat aggressive Entwistle style string hammering technique - more to do with being too close to the pickups than the fretboard, but also because I'll do a bit of slapping and popping and need to have room to get under the strings.

A good illustration of making sure that you ask the right questions for your individual situation. I agree that the original ad doesn't quite match up to the details you then got from them and the steady income stream that you're after, but there may well be plenty of bass players who would be happy to join the band. I guess there's a fundamental difference between your desired position as a hired hand (emphasis on "hired") and what a lot of us are after in just being a band member doing it for fun.

It's a very odd system that you can record a song note for note like the original (i.e. completely rip off the original version) and that's fine as long as you credit and pay the composers, but if you want to change the arrangement you must ask permission from the copyright holder and they can say no (I seem to recall Noel Gallagher refusing permission for the Wombles to do an Oasis cover) If in doubt contact PRS and they can probably put you in contact with the copyright holder.

currently in this position myself, learning songs behind the scenes when I'm not yet able to actually rehearse with the band. Mine's a bit more cloak and dagger, with one band member asking me to be ready if they suddenly find themselves short of a bass player...which means i don't have access to all of the band as yet. I can only say what I'm doing, not whether it works for anybody else, but a lot mirrors what everybody else has said:[list] [*]Get the band to tell you which songs they are going to be playing live. [*]Start with a small, manageable list (say, six or eight songs) and once you've learned a few add some more to the list - that way it doesn't get too daunting (possibly that's just me - thirty songs on a list looks very off putting, six looks achievable and quickly adds up to ten/twenty/thirty when you've ticked them off) [*]Create a playlist of those songs and listen to them to get the structure into your head [*]See if you can find any tabs on line - if not for bass then for guitar (to at least give you the chord structure) [*]I disagree with Bass Tractor - I can see his point but I'm OK with doing more than one song at a time, and on continuing to practice the ones i know while I'm learning a new one. Personally what works for me is to have two or three songs on the go at the same time - some may get paused because I need to work on some specific techniques, some I can't get the structure worked out, and some I just keep coming back to and tweaking (it's perhaps relevant to say at this point that I'm trying to work out bass lines from what are largely badly mixed and poorly separated recordings so there's a lot of guess work involved) [*]Ask the band about any tricky bits you can't work out for yourself. [*]Discuss what they are after (took me a while to realise that this is probably where i should have started) - do they want you to replicate exactly what the original recorded bass lines are, do they have any different live arrangements, or do they just want you to play whatever you want and see if you can come up with anything better/different than your predecessor? In my case they told me that they had no idea what the original bass player had done, that they'd let the current bass player make up his own versions (which, admittedly they are not happy with) so as long as it works they're happy for me to do my own thing, albeit that they'll let me know if they don't like it. They are specifically looking for a bass player who can contribute better ideas than they have about bass lines going forward so their approach is tied up in that. Your lot may not be so accommodating... [/list]