Monkey Steve

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1496236198' post='3309777'] I know, there are plenty of rehearsal rooms which are reasonable, I played in one the other day that was £8 an hour, so I also think it's a poor excuse. I think the problem is that they see gigs as a fun night out, and they see rehearsals as a chore because we have use that time to iron out all the problem bits. Also the 'jazz spontaneity' thing is great, but 1. it only works if you really do know the tunes inside out, and 2. you can navigate though them without getting lost, and 3. you are able to interact with the rest of the band rather than just bash out a solo and sit down. For me jazz is good when the band is connected, otherwise it's just a bunch of unrelated solos. And generally that connection comes from playing together a lot and getting to know each other. It's definitely an issue, I keep dropping hints but it's not working so I think I'll need to be a bit more firm with them. [/quote] I have been in bands with certain members who didn't like rehearsing. As a rule of thumb they generally: 1. massively over-estimated their own abilities (Dunning-Kruger and all that) - they don't need to rehearse because they're great; 2. massively under-estimate how poorly the band are received - it's jazz, what are a few bum notes if everybody's enjoying themselves? In fairness this can be a difference in perception between you and the rest of the band - they may be getting feedback from the punters that they don't care if you stuffed up the set (which was certainly true in an old punk band of mine - as long as you hit the choruses on time and in tune nobody cared if anybody made a mess of the riffs under the verse or played the solos out of tune). To those arguing that a gigging band shouldn't need to rehearse the same songs over and over again, I'd refer you back to the OP where he's explaining that the problem is that they can't play the set properly to begin with. How can practicing the songs possibly make the situation worse?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1496234931' post='3309769'] WELL, DAMN WELL STOP IT..! ... [/quote] see this this is exactly why it became a running joke that means I'll always use the wrong spelling...

Funny that we all remember incidences of playing bass out of key because they are so rare. Whereas singers being out of key...

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1496233460' post='3309745'] Am I allowed to pedantically suggest that it should be 'cue', as in 'that's when to come in', rather than 'queue', where one waits in line to get served..? Just sayin', no malice intended. [/quote] you are completely correct, and any malice would be completely deserved...ironically enough it's a bad habit I've picked up from a song in that particular old band, covering old punk songs, and there's a line in Top Of The Pops by the Rezillos that we were learning that is "cue lights" that i could not understand because, I heard it as "queue lights" and asked the singer what the hell they were on about. he explained that it was "cue" and that i was clearly an idiot, and it forever because a running joke in e-mails, etc (OK not an especially funny one, you had to be there)...one that I had completely forgotten about until now and find that I'm still doing it...

Maybe it's a jazz thing - I was once in a band, playing rock originals but with a guitarist who loved jazz, and once we knew the songs he refused to rehearse them because he wanted to retain the element of "jazz spontaneity" that comes from only knowing the bones of the song and thus forcing him to improvise on the spot when we played live. me and the drummer took another view and that was the end of that band... It wouldn't be for me (and not just because it's jazz) - I hate the idea of playing live until the band knows the songs inside out. IMHO playing live is about impressing and entertaining a crowd (and not for comedic reasons) Sounds to me like your lot are playing for their own amusement - how is it you keep getting the gig? Has it not inspired anybody in the audience to approach the venue and suggest that they could do it better? And I'd take issue with the cost of rehearsal studios in London - if there are three or four of you (or more) then you can easily find somewhere that'll cost less than a tenner each for three or four hours (check Storm in Holloway) which isn't much of a weekly investment, and even cheaper if it's fortnightly. Do they know this is what you're thinking? I'd suggest sitting down with all of them and having a chat - it would be a shame to jack in the band if you enjoy most of it without giving them the chance to sort out the bits you don't enjoy. They may agree that they do need to improve, or want to get better just so that you don't leave. Or you'll find that actually they just see it as a bit of fun once a month and even though they're not great they don't want to give up every Tuesday night to improve (or they think they're great, what do you mean they're rubbish? etc). But you'll at least be able to tell them where you stand and find out if it's worth sticking around, and you get to sort it out like adults rather than letting it fester to the point where you sort it out like spoilt children and break friendships.

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1496231227' post='3309712'] There are some great suggestions on here but it comes down to one critical point- does he want to get better? If it comes down to a lack of effort on his part and he sees that as not being an issue then that could be much harder to address. [/quote] This The problem with the singer in my old band was made a lot easier to deal with because he knew he was getting things wrong and had to work on it. there was no trying to blame us for his mistakes or refusing to believe that he was at fault, and very open to trying different things to help sort it out. Possibly it was his inexperience that worked for us - he knew he was playing with a couple of much more experienced and better musicians and didn't want to be the weak link. We never got any "I'm the front man" attitude within the band (though he was very good at selling that on stage). A mate's band has got the opposite attitude from an under performing bass player at the moment - refuses to believe that he's doing anything wrong despite their ongoing complaints and offers to help him work on his bass lines, and even after being told that he wasn't going to be playing on their album because he's not good enough, rather than pulling his socks up and making the extra effort he's instead dug his heels in and is making things worse by being tactically late for rehearsals so they don't get time to work on his bass lines (and generally behaving like an @rse - I genuinely think he's waiting to be sacked so can't see the point in making any effort). So back to the OP, does the singer realise that they're missing their queues and do they want to do something about it?

Had this exact problem with a singer in an old band. Also fairly inexperienced (but a really good front man with a good voice) and it seemed to be a combination of nerves (so he'd panic that he was going to miss his queue and come in early, or panic that he was going to come in too early and miss his queue) and not listening to what the rest of the band was doing - we all thought that the interplay between bass drums and guitar (with me on guitar) made all the queues completely obvious, but he would panic and come in at the wrong time, not always, but enough that the rest of us had to deal with it. The one time I've played lead guitar in a band and I've got a singer who thinks that the gap at the end of the chorus means it's time to sing another verse rather than having the guitar solo... Fortunately he knew that he was prone to it and wanted to get better. If he did it in rehearsals then we'd stop, point out what he'd done wrong and make him start the song again, just to drill it into his head. Sometimes we'd just practice queues and counts for bits he struggled with, and point out what he needed to be listening for in order to get it right - sometimes we'd add a drum fill or something as a musical "NOW!". If it was a song that he couldn't get to grips with we came up with various counting in/wait for the nod arrangements. This usually got him on the beat and that's 90% of the battle. If he was early or late in then we adjusted to him - always. The audience just want to sing along, they don't care that you are the moral victor by going into the chorus while the singer is half way through the verse. If he did come in on the wrong beat then adjusting wasn't always easy, so we'd catch up at the next big change. Or try to catch up...I can't say there weren't a few disasters but only ever for the odd song, and he'd get a stare from me or the drummer at the end and realise that he needed to keep his eye on the ball for the rest of the set. So my advice is just to work really hard on getting them to fix it - never let them get away with it in practice and always discuss it with them so that they are aware that they need to be making an extra effort to learn the song properly. If it's the same place on the same song and they can't get it then someone in the band should turn to them, count and give them a nod (and practice that to make sure they understand whether the nod is the beat before they come in or to signify that you're on the last round of four before they come in on the one, etc). And have an agreed coping strategy for when it does go wrong live so that you don't end up with the drummer and bass sticking to the original beat while the guitars and keys are adjusting to the singer.

not quite the same thing, but my last band were getting a bit frustrated at the singer insisting that we de-tune the guitars by two steps to make it easier for him to hit the notes, and on a five string bass the strings were just flapping about and the guitars didn't have quite the zing they wanted from being at concert pitch. So one week we all tuned up a semi tone, and didn't tell him. Three hours of the singer looking slightly puzzled - he knew something was wrong but couldn't quite put his finger on what it was. he never worked it out, and we never went back.

I've only ever properly quit two bands (like Blue, most just fall apart at some point, usually after some period of inactivity for one reason or another). In order, the reasons for quitting were: Band 1 (originals): the lead guitarist; Band 2 (covers): the lead guitarist. Both nice enough blokes when not the lead guitarist in a band, talented enough (not massively talented per se, but fine for the levels we were playing at) who both decided that they were the only ones who could choose the direction of the band, even if the rest of the band were united in wanting to try other things or slightly realign the direction. Both would just flat refuse to learn the songs they didn't approve of, insisted on playing only the songs that they liked best, etc. A very passive/aggressive showing of the monstrous ego that all lead guitarists have, but without the talent or leadership to pull it off. A salient lesson to them that behaving like an @rse because you think that the sun revolves around you sometimes proves that you aren't as well regarded as you might think you are. In both cases my quitting followed months of the whole band moaning about how unhappy we all were with the guitarists in question, but we never got any closer to sacking them so I bit the bullet and quit to save myself from any more miserable rehearsals. It's very freeing. Neither band continued after I'd gone.

can't think of many venues I wouldn't go back to. It's rarely the venue that's the problem, usually it's the management or the promoters and the management can change. I have a very long list of promoters who I wouldn't play for again, especially on the up and comers circuit in London where they seem to forget that "promote" is part of their job title and think that if they hire a cheap venue in Camden on a Tuesday night the punters will come flowing through the doors without the need to even mention that there's a gig on to anybody... The worst gig I ever played where it was the venue's fault was at the Red Lion in Brentford (many moons ago when it was a seriously well known rock venue) to find that the landlord was on holiday and the replacement manager had an idea about using a db meter set to go off if my amp went above zero (I am not making this up). We played four songs to a half empty room and decided it really wasn't worth the bother, apologised to the (sparse) crowd and walked off, wondering how it was that Micky Moody managed to play a whole gig the previous week. the manager still tried to sell us a video of our performance. On his return from holiday the landlord was mortified to find out what had gone on in his absence (I assume we weren't the only ones who were unhappy) and rang to apologise.

I'm another one who hates turning down gigs - it does the band no good and sitting at home watching TV is a very poor second to playing a gig. And it really grates with me when bandmates decide to be a bit too picky or seem to always be saying no. However, if it's because of shifts that are known about and the band can work round it then it shouldn't be a problem, and actually it makes it fairly easy to set out a schedule of when you can and can't make gigs or practices. I've had some bandmates who made it known that their work was on shifts or might take them away at short notice, etc and they'd work round it for gigs but not for practices and that was absolutely fine. Another one pulled the "working late" card a few too many times (and wasn't bright enough to cover his tracks and would give away that he wasn't actually working late every time, he just got used to turning up late) and got the sack. From the non-shift worker's perspective making an effort and showing that you are doing the best you can goes a very long way. A sympathetic boss is the best thing any of us can hope for. I'm not on shifts but sometimes gigs will need time off depending on geography and fortunately my boss is relaxed if I need to leave early or take an afternoon off at short notice. In fact I had a chat with him the other day to warn him that there's a band i may be joining who have a tour booked in October so I may need some time off which is a pain because I don't have much holiday left - it covers the tour but won't leave much if they have many other gigs between then and the end of March that need time off work. His response was for me to book the holiday for the October tour now so that it's already in the diary if i need it and not to worry about any other dates - at worst I can take some unpaid leave... ...the drummer, however, didn't mention this to his boss until after the tour was confirmed, ads were posted and tickets were on sale. Other people at his work have already booked holiday so he can't have the time off for all of the dates. Not sure how that one's going to resolve itself...perhaps i won't need all those days off after all...

Having just started/joined a new covers band, and currently being in negotiations with the same lot about joining their established originals band, it came down to one key point: 1. They asked me However, there's a bit more to it than that in the background and they tick all of my ideal requirements: 2. All band members are of my standard or better (I'm really done with the rhythm guitarist who's a great bloke but can't really play/the singer who can't sing/drummer who can't keep the beat/etc scenarios - it's fine when you're 17 and playing with your mates but they should all have been weeded out by the time you get to my age). Even better if it's going to be a stretch for my playing and make me improve my chops; 3. A clear plan of what the band is doing and how we get there; 4. Music that interests me (I have a reasonably broad musical taste and I'm happy to play anywhere on that spectrum but if I don't like the music then I won't enjoy being in the band and on to point 5...); 5. It'll be fun. 5 probably drives it. This covers all the "no d#ckheads" rules - there are people I've been in bands with who are decent enough musicians that I wouldn't consider ever being in a band with again because i know that it won't take long before they revert to type and I'll hate every minute of rehearsals. Of course you don't always know that going into a new band...but I can be fairly generous in allowing for different personality types, a bit of creative tension, etc. And I know that one of my faults is putting up with stuff/people that I don't like for longer than i should in the stupid hope that it'll all work out and we'll be fine in the long run so it's not like I put my bass down, never to return, at the first sign of it not being fun. Money doesn't feature at all. These new bands will earn money, to a greater or lesser degree, but that's not important to me in the slightest. I'm not saying that it isn't nice, but this is my hobby, it isn't my career, and even if the bands do very well for their genre it's not going to be a living so I'd rather be happy and skint than miserable with a few quid in my pocket. Point 4 is a given (I simply wouldn't consider joining a band playing music that I have no interest in) and the rest are possibly a bit negotiable - my favourite band to be in of all time majorly breached Rule 2 but not to the point where it started grating, and if it's a load of fun I'm happy to scrap Rule 4 and just see what happens (though this is less desirable the more experience I have of bands who do have a plan). The distance thing is a consideration, but not really an issue, if that makes sense. I live in Surrey, and my bands are based on London (where i work). I would say that it's never occurred to me to go looking for a band that I couldn't easily get to...but the truth is that I've always been in the fortunate position of always having been in bands with people i know, so I've never had to go looking for a band - most I've started, and the others I've been asked to join by people who know I can get to rehearsals.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1495121090' post='3301458'] I had my refund issued today. I have also just received a call from Adam at Stringbusters asking if I had received an email from PayPal, which I confirmed I had. He also asked me if I would like an explanation as to what happened, but I politely stated that I was not interested. The time for excuses would have been within a few days of taking my money. I appreciate them calling me, but in my opinion this is too little too late and I will never be taking my business there again. It does however mean there's a chance that other people who have been left out of pocket will be put right eventually though! [/quote] Shame that we don't know what his side of the story is (though I fully appreciate your position). The link I posted earlier (for anyone who hasn't checked it out) had one post from someone saying that they'd checked the published accounts and the business seemed to have changed hands (I'm not sure that's true - a quick Google of public records shows that two directors resigned in 2014 but that Adam is still there and nobody new was added) and looked to be going down the toilet, so he suspected that they had let the stock run down and were funding supplies from orders that had been placed. I don't know how true that is but it's a theory that does seem to fit the known facts

well this birthday sucks! I just got the Badmotorfinger deluxe box set and was watching the DVDs from that the the weekend. been a huge fan for so long - from taking an ex to see them on the Badmotorfinger tour as our first date, solo gigs after Soundgarden split, and a couple of times since they reformed (taking one of my mates who hadn't seen them back in the day and couldn't believe that she was going to finally see on of her favourite bands). A really great voice.

All sounding very like a (non-music) shop I used to use who went out of business, so I googled them and noted some very poor reviews on Yell and a few other sites, all fairly recent and with similar issues about payments being taken and no sign of the strings. Then this https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.stringbusters.com check out he second review down from Miles C [color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I can't comment on the truth of this, just re-posting what I found[/font][/color]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1495013458' post='3300379'] Good point. Maybe those here with no documents should create a set of documentary evidence for identifying our collection of "keepers" and get a friendly solicitor, policemen or similar to sign as a witness that on x-date you are/were the owner of this bass(es). [/quote] All my gear is insured so I have documents showing serial numbers, but as belt and braces once insurer (Allianz I think) sent me uv marker pens to put postcodes on all the gear. Have to confess I've never done it, but being able to demonstrate that when you shine a uv lamp your name and post code appear is likely to be fairly good proof it's yours.

not stolen basses, but a friend of mine had a load of stuff stored in a garage in between moving house - all her CDs and DVDs - and opened the door one morning to find that they'd all disappeared. The police came round and told her to make a list of what had been taken and circulate it to all the local Cash Converters, etc. Their records for what they have bought and from whom are very good, so if they've bought the exact ten/fifty/three hundred CDs that you had stolen yesterday then that's likely to be enough evidence that it's your stuff if push comes to shove. As Ivansc says, CC don't want a reputation with the Police for being fences so respond professionally, and she got a very polite response when she popped into her local shop, and they said they'd keep an eye out for anybody coming in with stuff on the list. That said, she didn't get any of it back (but it did make her want to join the Police)

[quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1494930479' post='3299617'] [url="https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/if-you-think-youve-bought-stolen-goods/"]https://www.citizens...t-stolen-goods/[/url] [/quote] This has nothing to do with getting your stolen goods back - it's confirming that if you bought them from somebody who didn't own them to begin with (like Cash Converters did here) then you have to take up getting your money back from them as a civil matter. It confirms exactly what everybody else has said , that Cash Converters have to give the stuff back to the original owner.

Yeah, I'm with Blue. I know it doesn't help the OP but while I'll prefer to bring my rig if it's practical, I can more or less duplicate the sound with some pre-amp/amp emulator pedals and I'm happy for the sound man to take a DI from there, and I'll happily play though any old piece of cr@p on stage as that's not the sound that's being used out front. Sometimes I'll just DI and not bother with the amp at all. If it saves me carting two cabs and an SVT head around, so much the better...the sound won't be an absolute match, but it'll be close enough for anybody listening out front, and they genuinely don't care or notice if it's an actual SVT or a small box pretending to be one. Different story if the bass isn't going through the PA and needs an amp, but again, I can use whatever amp they give me and sort the sound out with my bass eq and pedals. Again, doesn't help the OP at all, and I completely agree that the promoter should have actually done their job properly (so remember this when they try and book you the next time) but a solution where this isn't an issue is worth keeping in mind.

I'm resurrecting this one because I don't think my post needs a whole new thread but it's maybe off at an angle from this one. Another example of where the soundman that we keep blaming might not be at fault. I was at a gig on Saturday and my mate's band were playing and everything sounded great - loud, powerful, clear...except for the bass, which was a dull thump very low in the mix. I asked my mate about it afterwards and they'd completely stitched up the bass player (with whom they are not at all happy and pondering a sacking because he isn't very good). They had a word with the soundman beforehand to make sure that the bass was plenty loud on stage, but only just noticeable out front, on the basis that in a quiet, muddy mix the audience won't be able to pick out when he's playing the wrong notes. I think they owe the soundman a few beers - he's going to take the blame for this as doing as terrible job even though he was just obeying orders.

[quote name='Johnny Wishbone' timestamp='1494599762' post='3297271'] IME, this has actually been implied by several "promoters" over the years, and not just in London. [/quote] not just implied, categorically stated sometimes. And I know one band who did this to maintain a monthly booking in London by bussing up people from their home town of Brighton. It actually worked really well - created a buzz around them in London. If you want the support slots at the better venues and on the bigger nights of the week, you have to guarantee a minimum number of punters that are there to see you. And as somebody commented about London, there are a limited number of promoters so lying about it and bringing three people when you've promised fifty will get round quickly.

The multi band thing is pretty common if you're playing originals in London, and the easiest way to get gigs at decent venues when you're starting out. The venue has a lot to do with whether bands or their crowds will come in to watch the rest of the line up. For instance, The Boston Arms/Music Room is just one big room. There is a pretty large downstairs dressing room area if you really don't want to mix with the crowds, but once everybody's in they'll tend to stick around and watch everybody because there aren't a lot of other options unless you want to hang around outside on the main road (I'm not saying i haven't done that...). Somewhere like the Barfly or Nambucca has a separate bar/pub area outside the gig room (with the Barfly also having a load of dressing rooms as a backstage area) so it's a lot easier for bands and their crowds to head off and talk amongst themselves when they're not playing. The difference in what bands and their mates/fans do at each type of venue is very noticeable. There doesn't seem to be much of a "well I've paid my fiver so i might as well watch everybody" attitude from the crowd as I remember from ten or twenty years ago. personally I'll do my best to hang around and watch the rest of the bands - I'm with those who think it's a bit rude not to: you'd prefer to have the other bands sticking around to watch you too, plus you make friends and connections and find out which other bands you're a fit for. My old bands have had and made gig offers from/to bands we've got to know like that. However, you really don't want to be on last - getting the tube home is always going to top sticking around to check out a new band. The one time we were going to make a point of not doing that was when a somewhat above themselves (unsigned) band's manager offered us a support gig and presented a contract that required us to, among a long list of terms, watch all of the bands on the bill and not leave the building until the headliners had finished. We all pointed and laughed at it as being completely unenforceable (it was the laughable manager's ham-fisted attempt to portray himself a a big time music biz insider...failed) but the gig didn't happen so we never got the chance to see what he would actually have done if we all trooped off after we'd finished.

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1494318925' post='3294867'] Agree with all of the above. You get one set of ears for life, and they are damn hard to fix. Tinnitus is caused by a neurological problem: the brain is no longer receiving certain information from the inner ear, this is not normal so it decides to make some sh*t up, filling in the frequencies that have gone missing. Hearing aids are not like glasses. They do not compensate for a slack eardrum, they just try to make the most important frequencies loud enough so they can be perceived over the damaged parts of the hearing system. There's much more to tell but I've run out of time for now... Protect your hearing from sustained loud noises, always! [/quote] Very interested in this being a neurological problem because although I've definitely lost some of my hearing over the years due to a somewhat cavalier attitude to ear protection (but not to a point where it becomes socially awkward or needed artificial aid), I've never suffered from tinnitus. Maybe my brain is just wired up wrong. Possibly a luck of the draw thing?

From a chat once had with a pub manager, a lot of chains/tenants will have a fixed budget from the chain/higher management, hence why £200 - £250 is common. It becomes something of a self perpetuating cycle - bands on the circuit know that the going rate is £250 so that's what they will ask for, and the pubs know that all the experienced bands ask for £250 so that's what they expect to pay. However, there may be some extras - one place my old lot played couldn't go above their fixed £200 but they could offer us free beer all night (sucked to be the designated driver). As others have said, it's a buyers market and they're not going to offer more because you're better musicians or have more band members. It does, however offer the opportunity for new bands to undercut the market and get some gigs under their belts by offering to play a couple of £100 - £150 if you need to get your name known on the circuit more than you need to cover everybody's drinks bills. From experience there's an oddly counter intuitive thing with proper music pubs (rather than the local that has bands on every Friday) in that in trying to make a name for themselves as having good, often niche bands playing originals, they end up with fewer locals who will show up every week regardless of who's playing, and often they survive on the goodwill of the local bands in accepting not very much money, or splitting the £200 between three or four bands. Back to the OP, I'm not in that area (and not in the pub bands game for a while anyway) so can't give a list of paying venues. Anyone local that can help with that? I think Lemonrock has pubs touting for bands/advertising gigs so that's probably a good place to start

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1494417882' post='3295761'] Actually, on the New Strings bit, I never gig with new strings straight out of the pack, I'll always have played them in at home a little before I gig. As part of the stringing up process, I always pull them hard, archer/Billy Sheehan-style when they're up to tune, and then re-tune; that seems to settle them in. [/quote] I love the zing of new strings, so I'll try and change them as close to the day of the gig as possible, but not on the actual day. Good old stretching, a little bit of playing in, bit more stretching, and then typically they'll only need a few tweaks before the gig