andy67

[quote name='Freddy Le Cragg' timestamp='1422707564' post='2675839'] I use completed/sold listing results on eBay, take a median average from the previous 10 to 20 sales, then knock 10% off that. [/quote] Yup, very similar to what I do too. I do check a lot of places and use my own experience too. Personally feel there is a couple of hundred quid between modern standard US and MIM Fenders e.g. A MIM P new £501 - used £350, this will be contentious but in my experience US Fender Ps don't go for much over £600 used. And to be fair, I think the MIM Classic 50s P is every bit as good as the U.S. Standard P.

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1422661477' post='2675503'] I cannot believe the prices they are going for. SSIs for less than £1k a plenty this year already, and there is a Thumb NT5 for £975! Considering what you are getting for your money, crazy! The market is everchanging, some brands will, for whatever bizarre reason, always attract a good price (Fender e.t.c.), others go through fazes. One thing us for sure, there is no set 'rule' in valuation. [/quote] "There is no set 'rule' in valuation." This is an interesting point and one we should explore, perhaps a guide? I've seen some trying to attain almost full value on a second hand instrument with the upgrade/two weeks old caveat.

I love the track and watch the audience during the bass out! It rocks man!

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1422629745' post='2674858'] All good advice. And it's not just Thomann! I'm trying to sell a used amp, and now GAK are doing a brand new one for not much more than I was asking... Part of the problem is that the seller always wants to get the highest price possible and the buyer wants the lowest. That's where haggling and negotiation come in (for some people - not everyone!). Added to that, it is very much a buyer's market at the moment so if you want to get a sale you may have to come down a bit from your asking price. Then there's the problems of sentimental value and [b]upgrades[/b].... and the "I want to get back what I paid for it" mind-set. Problem with that is that the market changes! It's complicated, but generally you can tell the genuine sellers from the opportunistic chancers (famous last words, I know!).[/quote] That's the one thing that gets me! Squier basses, just because it has been upgraded imo, doesn't mean its worth anymore. I have witnessed some trying to get more than new just because they have upgraded the pups! Its still a Squier and realistically is only worth what its worth S/H.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1422627244' post='2674796'] Lots of variables - age, condition, make & model all make a big difference. The standard stuff like Fender & Musicman always seem to hold their prices better than other makes or the more esoteric, custom stuff, but even that is subject to the fickleness of what's "in" at the time. [/quote] Definitely! Warwick and Musicman are the strangest ones. Sometimes they are so cheap and the next real expensive S/H, I always feel for Warwick owners given the price point they came in at in the late 80's and now so low.

I have a bass for sale on an enthusiasts forum, I priced it accordingly but getting mails informing me that I'm underselling and being daft! Maybe so but I kinda like to sell at an affordable yet realistic price. If it were for example an all original 1951 Fender p-bass, well that would be different. The bass in question cost me £1050 17years ago, its been revised and upgraded to the mk3 version which now means mine is discontinued however, to buy the mk3 version costs £2672 I priced my obsolete version at £850 and have had some real cool mails in response!

How do you price your bass once you've decided to sell it? For me, I look at new price say £700, shop offers 1/3 in trade £233, I do a bit research and generally think about 50% £350 is pricing to sell. Its a really tough balancing act as most buyers are looking for a bargain and if you go to close to new price, it kinda turns folk off or they'll buy new. I know it changes instrument to instrument but I'm genuinely interested to see how folks calculate the S/H price. Andy

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1421400965' post='2660703'] This is a way around it.... but I guess it depends on the manufacturer and..... some can easily do this, others cannot. It's also noted that the 'big online german store' will de-list a manufacturers product from it's site if there is no margin to be made over a period of time..... [/quote] Yes they do, the Mike Dirnt P is no longer available from das auto!

Edinburgh used to be a happening place for music and music shops but now its pretty awful. The cost of rent/rates in Edinburgh is horrendous and I do understand what this means for the local retailer. Edinburgh Council seem hell bent on charging more just because of our European Status and amount of tourism. I think there are 6 music shops left in Edinburgh, all populated by good guys who give great service. It seems places like Cash Generator and Cash Converters do cheaper musical instruments than the shops although they trade at the entry to mid level instrument. I do think though that this thread and a couple of others on this forum (General Discussion) provide some valuable info for shop owners and an incite from shop owners to musicians.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][b]chris_b, on 09 January 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:[/b][/size][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]It seems you don't get the costs and overhead argument.[/size][/font][/color] [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1421247676' post='2658911'] Well said. Prime retail space is a massive premium. Check with an estate agent and see how much it is to rent a small ground-floor retail unit on the main thoroughfare in your local town. Compare it with the price of renting a warehouse on the periphery of the town. As discussed on another thread - Fender is an ever-more exclusive brand, due to their high minimum order, so any business selling them can be more brazen about the price they sell it at. As well as that - Fender (and most suppliers) will absolutely HATE their resellers to sell too cheap. The only time they'll be ok with it is through volume sales, which is usually easiest achieved with online sales. There's much more to it than a business owner being greedy and stubborn as to how much they make on a sale. [/quote] Really?? I never once called a business greedy but if the cap fits huh? And in terms of the argument, surely or given the times we live in, shops must find a way of reducing the price? £869 against £1067 (Mike Dirnt bass) is a huge difference. Considering most shops have an on-line presence surely same rules apply as to the likes of SoundsLive who sell it at the lower price? I have bought a lot from SL and have to say their service is first class imo. I don't want to see shops disappear but can't help think they are bringing it upon themselves.

Sure are! were they second hand or new? If they were new when bought, the $500 is equivalent to £331 whereas we would have to pay around £800 each for the two fenders.

Bit of a difference between 50% and 25% on immaculate!

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1420828527' post='2654031'] Where the mark up prices are made to look bad is when you look to trade something in and the dealer starts quoting "I only pay this much for a new one so can only offer you a quarter of that" Perfect example, I recently wanted out of my (totally mint) Hiwatt High Gain 100w head (current sale price between £900 and £1100) I wanted to trade for an Ampeg Pro 7 SVT (current sale price around £699) I was expecting to chuck £200 at the deal.....not a chance, PMT offered me £300 for the Hiwatt against an ex demo incomplete head, Richtone could only manage £200 against an ex demo, both shops quoting "it's what we can get them for and recent sale prices on Ebay" so exactly what mark up had they got in a £1000 head that only allows them to offer £250 as a trade in? Neither shop got my business, I sold the Hiwatt for £400.00 and brought a mint used, fight cased Pro 7 for £350.00, not been back to either shop since and now have no plans to, a big loser for PMT as I have spent close to £10.000 in there over the past five years (I know that because the guy inadvertently showed me my account screen!) [/quote] This is one example that really annoys me and causes much distress and distrust in the seller! I have seen me buying a guitar one week, attempting to trad it back less than one month later and being offered peanuts for it!

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1420810596' post='2653733'] Based on first hand experience, I can promise you that mark up is nowhere near 45% at street price (which is always much lower than the RRP). Additionally, when you purchase the item off the manufacturer, you pay a cost price EX VAT, so that's an extra 20% of the price you bought it for that you have to add on at store level just to cover your own costs/bills. That's before staffing overheads, premises rental and all the other etc. You're VERY lucky if the percentage is half of your quoted 45% on most items. [/quote]Again quite happy to be wrong, just enjoying the discussion.

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1420810255' post='2653721'] Your information is wrong Andy. The Moderators were discussing markups last year and, as an ex musical instrument retail person, I threw very similar figures to those that you've been using into the discussion. One of the other Mods currently works in the industry and queried where I'd got my figures from. The answer (which I got ribbed unmercifully for) was... 1984. Back then 30/40% on major items was the norm and some 'accessories' could have as much as 70%, because that was what the market was used to. Obviously, markup erosion to the current level didn't happen overnight, but it has happened. [/quote] Quite happy to be wrong, just going on info imparted to me from a rep.

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1420809076' post='2653692'] The independents have borne the brunt of technology in many areas and survival means reinvention. I saw a lovely bit of reinvention the other day. An old fashioned grocers shop, complete with all the shelves behind the counter (think Arkwright's) [b]but[/b] they'd joined one of those bulk buying groups (I think it was Nisa) that most independent convenience stores use in order to get the 'buying power'. They'd gone out of their way to select as many 'traditional' brands as they could, bought a bar and shelving from pubs that were closing, ripped out all their metal shelving and redecorated the place. It was mid afternoon but I had to wait to get served, and there were people waiting behind me. Reminded me of the shops when I was little® [/quote] I'd love that! Kinda similar example is, with most bars changing to the trendy wine bars making them pretty characterless, its lovely walking into an old fashioned type pub with a band playing in a tight corner.

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1420808698' post='2653677'] Not if it costs you £250 to buy one. [/quote] From information given, at the £300 mark, it would cost £180.

I've bought a lot from guitarguitar and soundcontrol. Red Dog Music in Edinburgh are a good bunch and I try to support them as much as possible. However, the range of basses for sale in shops all over Edinburgh is fairly limited meaning I use here or other places such as Facebook pages: North East Bass or Music Equipment Glasgow/Edinburgh.

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1420802563' post='2653539'] I must admit I will always go try a guitar/bass in a shop if I can and then go and order it online somewhere cheaper. Some people probably see that as 'bad' but if I can get something £££s cheaper I will, its my money at the end of the day. The other issues guitar shops have is the lack of varied stock, if you want a Fender or Gibson thats great but if you want anything else you're having to order online anyway. Stock of bass guitars is even worse... [b]I wont be suprised to see guitar shops start closing over the years.[/b] [/quote] Sad to say but not far from the truth unfortunately. I remember being around music shops during the 70s and 80s, was brilliant almost like a social event, people chatting, playing, planning next gig, buying, getting shop credit, swapping. I really miss all that cos nowadays you go past a shop and you see very few people in.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1420802419' post='2653535'] I believe the argument was talking about raw salary, not saving up money. I trust "pretty well paid" means you are making more than [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]£1067 a month. So a new Fender will cost you less than a month's salary, instead of the 3-4 months' worth alluded to back in the day.[/font][/color] [/quote] Yes quite correct, didn't look at it form that perspective. However, who could afford to buy from raw salary?