Beer of the Bass

I reckon Artisan sounds better than Technician. I'm not really a writer, and I'm better at reacting to and complementing other musicians than starting things off myself, but I think I'm not totally without creativity.

[quote name='daflewis' timestamp='1320924933' post='1433155']

It's worth trying the honeys, though a work of caution, they are designed to sound like gut, so they aren't the most growly and sustaining string in my experience - though Beer seems happy with that side of things.

I've currently got some prototypes of a new hybrid on my main working bass and have to admit that they're very promising - a bit higher tension, but really responsive under the bow with a lovely thud at the beginning of a pizz note and a brighter sustain (they'll even work with a magnetic pickup) - i actually don't want to take them off, which is a good sign!
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Yeah, I like the Honeys for pizz, but they're more Charlie Haden-ish then Dave Holland-ish, if that makes sense.
The new hybrids sound intriguing - do keep us posted!

Not being a metalhead, I was quite surprised by them when I stumbled across a festival performance on the TV. Proper proggy stuff, complete with keyboards - I liked it. I hadn't realised there was a scene for that sort of thing at the moment.

Honeys do a decent job on this front. The Pizz sound is softer in the attack than Spirocores but has a fair amount of sustain and growl available, and the bowed response is good. They don't feel too low tension either - a little lighter than Spiro mittels but not floppy.

If you want cheap pickups with a Ric flavour, the Kent Armstrong Toaster pickups work well with bass, despite being guitar pickups. WD music have them. I actually prefer the one in my 4-string to the massively expensive Darkstar pickup which was also installed.

This is pure conjecture, but I wonder if the shape (rather than the amount) of the neck relief is a factor in this. I mention this as when I shaved down a chunky neck to a slimmer profile then set it up with a similar action and relief as previously, there was more of the touch-sensitive growly clank after I'd shaved the neck. I think with the chunky neck/less tense trussrod the relief curve would have been different to with a more flexible neck/tighter truss rod.

Updated for final price reduction. Has to be a bargain at this price! If you're starting out, this will get you gigging cheaply, or would be a good second cab to leave in your rehearsal space or regular gig venue.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1320653703' post='1429288']
This is dependent on the sound engineer being a sound engineer though. Unfortunately, on the amateur music scene atleast a large proportion of "engineers" don't have a sodding clue.

A good engineer will:
-listen to the bands music and comments, if possible listen to a track or two of their cd beforehand too
-be polite/patient with a band and explain why certain changes to their sound won't work that night
-(in my experience at least) will not sit fiddling with controls all night, past the first song they should be pretty much done
-be quick/efficient/organised and generally in control

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It's a shame that nobody is in the habit of posting to say "I played at X venue last night, the engineer was great to work with and we were really pleased with the sound". It does happen, and ought to be acknowledged. Maybe there should be a thread somewhere for this. I suspect all of the sound guys on this thread are among the good ones, as they're showing every sign of caring about what they do.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1320577018' post='1428402']
on a double bass never, but once the tail wire let go on a gig so does that count as four?
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I had several double bass strings break when using Thomastik Dominants, though when tuning or in transit rather than while playing. I think it's the stranded nylon core they have. Eventually I stopped using them. Otherwise, I don't recall ever breaking a bass guitar or double bass string. Even guitar string breakages are rare for me.

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1320495983' post='1427536']
I honestly don`t think it worth your time and expense to keep worrying about this.
Just insist on a mic.
If you can`t get one you can`t get one.
At the very best the eq and level are decided by the "engineer" and whatever signal you give them will be subject to their tin ears and apathetic ways,so my advice is relax, enjoy your cab and let the gig take care of itself.
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Fair enough. The audience were enjoying the gig well enough, and that engineer would probably have screwed up any sound source equally badly! In a previous band, I had to stop using my double bass for a regular gig in that venue as the same sound guy couldn't figure out how to control the feedback when he turned the subs up.
I don't think a straight DI is inherently bad sounding, it's just a shame that everyone ends up sounding the same, regardless of the sound they've found to work in their particular band.

This particular gig had only two bands, and we were the only one with a bass player. I think it's just laziness on the part of this particular sound guy, combined with a weird passive/aggressive thing of pretending to agree whilst doing the opposite! We had emailed the venue in advance about our lineup and requirements. I actually run my amp pretty clean, but it's providing some compression, rolling off the high frequencies which are otherwise obnoxious with my effects and giving some extra presence around 2k compared to a straight DI. I could probably come up with some complicated signal chain to deliver something similar to the sound guy, but why bother?
I have wondered whether a speaker level DI is worth experimenting with - i.e running a DI box off the amp output (in parallel with the speaker) with a 40dB pad on. It would miss the speaker colouration, but my DI box has a 4kHz lowpass which can be switched in which might do some of that job. Any thoughts on this?

People who mic cabs live, how do you get the soundman to co-operate and actually run a mic on your cab? Are you carrying your own mics?
I had a gig last night, I had a chat with the soundman early in the evening and asked him if he would mic my cab. I play through a valve amp and use overdrive and fuzz quite a bit, so it's not really an outrageous request. Plus we're a guitar/bass/drums three piece, so not exactly a difficult gig for soundmen. He gave the impression of agreeing, saying he would run a mic and DI, but then did the opposite, with just a Behringer DI and proceeded to kill the bass sound by boosting the sub bass and having very little mid or highs. I didn't want to push the point, as he was in control of the "suck" knob that night! He was also using a trigger for the bass drum, with a completely inappropriate sound, so getting any sort of decent sound that night was a damage limitation exercise.
It doesn't seem unreasonable to use a mic along with a DI in certain cases, so why do many sound guys make you feel like a prima donna for asking?

A small amount of out-of tuneness is part of that sound, a bit like a tremolo tuned accordion (where a second set of reeds is tuned slightly sharp) or detuning one oscillator on a synth. I have quite a high tolerance for this before it becomes unmusical, others can't stand it! I don't think it's my sense of pitch being bad either, just variations in where people draw the line between sounding interesting and being a racket.

My band pester me to bring my 8-string, so at least they notice...

They have most of their range on eBay if you're concerned about the security of their website. I've just got some blue pearloid stars to match the pickguard on my 8-string.

How about the Eminence Basslite s2012 for a pair of smallish 1x12s? I've seen them at decent prices, they have lower Fs and Eminence have designs on their website for sealed or ported 1x12s.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1320233989' post='1423999']

For a pair of 112s I'd maybe look at some cheaper, pressed-steel frame woofers. As a rule they don't sound as controlled with power in the bass as the cast chassis, but they're generally lighter and at your power levels it wouldn't matter too much. If you can find them at the old, cheaper price or secondhand you might consider the celestion orange label neos, not many people here rate them on spec because everyone's focused on xmax but they extend nice and high and with good sensitivity again, I think they'd be voiced to your liking [url="http://professional.celestion.com/bass/pdf/BN12-300S8.pdf"]http://professional..../BN12-300S8.pdf[/url]
There's a 4-ohm version as well. I have to say I haven't modelled the bass response but I've heard a cab loaded with orange series drivers and they sound articulate. Btw even xmax figures are presented differently by different manufacturers so I wouldn't be too put off even for higher-power SS applications - esp on double bass.

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The BN12-300s are on offer for £69.99 at Lean Business, but unfortunately only the 4 ohm, not the 8-ohm version. The 8 ohm is £138.20! That could work, but two 4 ohm 1x12s would need to be in series to keep the Carslbro happy (it has 4,8 or 16 ohm taps). I would need to figure out what volume and porting they're happy with, but it looks like an option. For double bass use, I always use the highpass filter on the Clarus anyway, so excursion could probably be well controlled in that application.

Interesting stuff, Lawrence! The chart for the Kappa 15 has a peak just below 2kHz and drops off quite steeply after that.
[url="http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappa_15A.pdf"]http://www.eminence....f/Kappa_15A.pdf[/url]
This can sound quite aggressive, but kind of dull above that. I've modified my amp with a bright cap which increases gain above about 2K at lower volume settings, and this has got me closer to the sound I want. My other cab, an EA Wizzy 10 cab I use for double bass gigs goes up to 5k according to the manufacturer - from the sound of that, I don't need to go any higher. The Wizzy actually sounds good with the Carlsbro, but doesn't get me the volume and lows I'd want in places bigger than a pub backroom for electric bass use. So 2.5k-4k is indeed the range where I'd like a bit more. On heads with more sophisticated EQ, I usually find myself boosting this range to get the sound I like.
DIY is not entirely out of the question, but needs an empty house for a couple of days so that I can get my workmate out and take over the kitchen! For some reason, I'm happy to to do things with instruments and valve amps, but wary of cab design as I feel like there's a lot I don't understand thoroughly. I also considered selling the Wizzy 10 and the big ol' 1x15" and going for a pair of 1x12" cabs, so that I could use one or two with either my Clarus head or the Carlsbro depending on the situation.

Picato are definitely at the darker, thumpier end of flats, at least when I've tried them. A new set of Picato flats were darker sounding than D'addario Chromes which had been on for a year. If that's the sound you're going for, you may like them, and they look and feel well made.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1320049837' post='1421498']
I too asked TC for specs on their cabs - they did reply, but said they didn`t have them. I found this a bit worrying, that a company doesn`t know it`s own products specs.
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I got this response from TC, having asked them if they had a 1w/1m sensitivity figure for the BC212;

"I'm sorry, but we don't have further details on this available at this point."

Poor show, IMO.

Looks good, but is also a bit larger than my vehicle situation needs. I'm not sure extended high frequency response agrees with fuzz pedals either.

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1320048984' post='1421493']
To this day I am known to position my finger twixt lips and wibble them about whilst verbally fishing for a cup o' char from the kids. They do not understand. Nor do they make any tea. Bastards.
Mike Howlett - I remember Master Builder (I think) on the 'You' album as a good example of his art.
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Ha! My 12 year old stepson sings the bit from Flying Teapot when making tea. Have a cuppa tea, have another one, lovely cuppa tea! Never makes me one though...

I've emailed TC to see if they have a 1w/1m sensitivity figure for the BC212 - I wonder what they'll say? The Ashdown LB212 might also be worth a shot if I can find one. They don't publish any specs for it, but if it was designed to be used with the 30 watt LB head I presume the designers would have been going for efficiency above all else...

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1319933647' post='1420377']
Excursion is no issue with a 100w head, it is the thing that matters if you puish power. All about sensitivity. A Barefaced Vintage or Super 15 will be really loud with 100w. I have a 100w Carlsbro and a S15, so could probably demo how loud. Reckon the fact my 70w Burman is loud enough is sufficient though.
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Cheers for the real-world perspective - most speaker reviews I can find are from people using higher powered solid state heads,. We probably have different standards of "loud" though - no Doom required here!
I'm loud enough with my current 1x15, so the main thing is not to be less sensitive than that. As far as I can gather from playing around with WinISD, the Kappa 15 in my enclosure has pretty decent efficiency for a 1x15 (around 100dB 1w/1m IIRC), I'd just like it to weigh less. I'm also the only driver in the band, so if I had something like a 2x15", we'd have to rent a van for every gig rather than using a car. As it is, we can squeeze into an estate car.
The only efficiency specs I can find for the cabs listed above are 95dB for the Laney NX115 and 100dB for the GK212MBE.

Are the sensitivity figures quoted by most manufacturers meaningful, though? I've no idea if they're rated in any kind of consistent way between manufacturers.