PauBass

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1494406785' post='3295632'] Having unpacked quite a few cabs in my time I've been able to see how lots of different manufacturers ship things. The better ones tend to use some sort of synthetic (polystyrene type material) inner 'frame' which sits on the bottom and top of the cardboard box. This holds the cab securely in place and provides a lot more protection than something like bubble wrap to the more vulnerable areas like corners. It also holds the cab a few centimetres away from the outside of the box. This can mean that if a forklift pierces the cardboard it sometimes doesn't get as far as the cab. Might sound like this is an exaggeration but I've seen a lot of boxes arrive with a pierced side but the cab hasn't been touched. Porting is another area of weakness on some cabs and there are a few builders who insert foam pads in this area for extra protection. The depth of the ply in the picture doesn't look very thick so, as mentioned by someone else, this might be a weak spot with this cab. The other thing that does appear to help is to get that white tape with red 'fragile' all over it. Won't stop a really heavy handed courier but does provide some warning and the courier company have less of a chance to dispute that a decent warning wasn't clearly shown in the box hat the contents could be easily damaged. Making sure there are clear directions in which way to stack the box can help too. I sometimes just draw big arrows on the side My guess is that the courier may say the bubble wrap wasn't of sufficient strength to protect a 'heavy' object and that the box needed to be stronger. I'm not saying they are correct, just that it's the kind of thing I've heard before. To be fair I've not had problems with UPS before, they are usually one of the better couriers and the one we'd use to ship expensive stuff overseas. [/quote] In my case the packaging held it together well, whatever hit the box did not pierce the cardboard and it did it not get as far as the cab. The amount of packaging used, tons of bubble wrap, over 13 layers, even more on the corners, thick padded cover and the strong double-lined corrugated box did their job...well, up to a point. The parcel also had big stickers stating "Fragile". ParclHero are being a right pain, with stupid email replies, pretty much repeating the same over and over again. So far, they have failed to prove how my cab was packed and what aspect of the packaging was insufficient. I have so far receive a so called "report", just a few lines long, provided to them by UPS, in which they merely state my claim is rejected due to insufficient packaging, in there they quote a UPS policy and the International Safe Transit association test procedure for small parcel shipments. They do not provide any facts and information on how the parcel was packed. Just today I received a set of images, on which they are basing their claim rejection on, and there's not even a photograph of the bubble wrap, according to their images my cab was only packed with the padded cover and then the cardboard box! My contract is with ParcelHero and I did pack the item according to their criteria, at no point I was provided with any other packaging policy or packaging standards.There seem to be discrepancies between ParcelHero's packaging criteria and that of UPS. This was not for me to know as I wasn't informed of their existence. Yesterday I had a very productive meeting with an advisor from the Citizens Advice Bureau and the wheels are in motion, I will be following all the recommended steps they advice and go all the way to court if we need to.

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1494331552' post='3295009'] Following on from my court date they didn't turn up so the Judge awarded me everything. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] Stick with it its taken me a year so far. [/quote] Excellent news, well done! It's taken quite a while, I think that's their game, hoping people will give up before getting to this point. At least that is my experience so far: slow communication, ignoring questions and points raised on emails, standard copy and paste replies...very frustrating, all I think, in the hope to make you give up your case and move on.

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1494331454' post='3295008'] Right today was the preliminary court date for my claim. The courier company Parcel Monkey didn't turn up so the Judge awarded me everything. The company did contact me on Friday just gone and said the wanted to offer me a settlement, which seemed a bit late in the day. The offer was pretty poor and not close to what I lost so I refused it. Its taken me a over a year so far but maybe its nearly done depends if they pay I suppose. Ill keep you posted on what happens next. [/quote] Great news, really happy for you!. Hope you get your money back soon.

[quote name='ProfJames' timestamp='1494054570' post='3292843'] I have issued an online CCJ on three occasions and won each time, This is an online action via a government website and costs around £30. It issues a summons and places a CCJ on both the company address and the name of the person. They get a month to respond and then have to attend court. Frightens the sh*t out of the accused and CCJ actions bugger up their credit ratings......................... [url="https://www.firstreport.co.uk/Guide-to-County-Court-Judgments.aspx"]https://www.firstrep...-Judgments.aspx[/url] [/quote] Thanks, worth a try if they keep ignoring me!

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1493360923' post='3287685'] [attachment=244221:20170428_023125.jpg] I found a box to put the fork into. Obviously I can`t recreate it properly, as the box is just rolls of shrinkwrap with nothing in the corner. It wasn`t heavy either, so not lot of resistance that the speaker would have had. I think the damage looks similar [/quote] Sorry about the late reply, been away for a few days. This is really helpful! I think it is quite clear what happened to mine after seeing those photos. Is there any chance you can email me these photos, please? Update: - Courier company is ignoring many of my emails and fail to provide advice or clear instructions on what to do next to dispute the claim resolution. - UPS won't deal with me directly as the shipper is ParcelHero but they were quick to contact me when I posted on their Facebook page. On the other hand ParcelHero accept no visitors posts on their Facebook but I did post a comment on one of their posts and they haven even bother deleting it or acknowledging. - The cab maker has not replied to my email with advice on force needed or a few other questions. - Visit to Citizens Advice Bureau was useless as I got seen by an old lady that did not have much idea and failed to give any advice, other that ask me to look at their website. I'm going back tomorrow, to a different town, with the hope to find someone a bit more helpful. This is it for now....Thanks everyone for your help!

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1493269946' post='3286970'] In my experience of forklift driving, and showing the photo to work mates, we are 100% convinced it has been caught by a fork on the forklift. It is the type of damage we see. A fork doesnT always go through packaging if there is resistence inside. The tips of the forks are slightly narrower at the tip, and looks exactly tje right size. [/quote] Thanks, this is vey helpful information! I will make sure to point this out too to the company.

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1493219131' post='3286631'] Don't forget to post regular updates on this thread so we can all do what we do best and 'burn' them [/quote] Sure, I will keep posting updates here as they come in so you are all aware of the whole process. [quote name='moooper' timestamp='1493229632' post='3286781'] Check out my thread on a broken cab [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] I'm going to small claims court early next month. Let me know if you need any help or advice [/quote] I had not seen your thread, thanks for the heads up! I have sent you a PM

Thank you very much again for your help guys, I really, really appreciate it! The person that received the cabinet has emailed me back this morning, after reconstructing how I packed the cab approximately, he confirms the corners on the cab, they had extra protection, had a minimum of 12 layers of bubble wrap, possibly even 14-16! Then add the padded cover and cardboard box...unbelievable! I'm seeing the Citizens Advice Bureau on Friday and see what their advice on how best to proceed is, then I will go from there...but one thing is clear, I won't stop here : Trading Standards, Small Claim Court, Facebook posting, emails to company..... whatever it takes to overturn their decision and make them accept their fault, not mine!

I have just checked my home insurance and , unfortunately I do no have legal service cover I have asked the courier company for a full report of the inspection and also sent them a detailed explanation, photos they already had them, of the parcel packaging and that it matched the criteria on their website. Still awaiting for a reply a day later...they are always so slow to reply! We do have photos of the parcel, as it left my house and as it arrived to its destinatition, The damaged to the parcel wasn't obvious, the box held it together I guess thanks to the strong box, the multiple layers of bubble wrap and the cab padded cover, but it can still be seen that it had sustained a blow on the area of the damage, see photos below: [URL=http://s105.photobucket.com/user/PauBass/media/Barefaced/IMG_3993_zpssrbrcqkp.jpg.html][IMG]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/PauBass/Barefaced/IMG_3993_zpssrbrcqkp.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s105.photobucket.com/user/PauBass/media/Barefaced/IMG_3995_zps67gjtkho.jpg.html][IMG]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/PauBass/Barefaced/IMG_3995_zps67gjtkho.jpg[/IMG][/URL] We have photos showing how the cab was packed and we have kept all packaging too. I have also contacted the cab manufacturer and see if they can help and estimate the force needed to damaged the cab like this as well as to provide more details on the strength of the materials used. Right now I have to decide if to go with Trading Standards or Small Claims Court but I'm not sure what the best option is going to be....I'm not even sure how they work!

This is all really good advice, thank you very much! Small claims, trading standards, Facebook post....I'm not giving up, it was their fault, not mine! Great point Fretmeister, I will get in touch with the cab maker and see if they can shed any light on the force needed to cause the damage, it might definitely help with the appeal. Emailed the company first thing this morning saying I wanted to appeal this decision and still no reply, no surprise there as it's been this slow the whole process.

[quote name='Steve Browning' timestamp='1493124296' post='3285794'] I wonder what sort of packaging would be required to withstand the knock that did that to a piece of wood? [/quote] Exactly my thoughts and what I said to them on one email. If they managed to caused that damaged, even with all the protection the cab had, imagine the impact it must have sustained!

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1493124227' post='3285790'] The "not our fault" reply isn't surprising,seems like nobody accepts responsibility these days. It's a PITA but speak to trading standards,if you have legal cover with your house insurance talk to them too. Stick to your guns and make sure the courier knows there's no way in hell you're going to accept it. [/quote] Great advice, thanks! I do believe we have legal cover so we'll make use as well as contacting trading standards. Of course I'm not going to accept responsibility knowing I packed the item properly and it was their lack of care what caused the damaged.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1493124097' post='3285785'] Who was the carrier? [/quote] Courier was UPS, booked through ParcelHero.

[quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1493122301' post='3285754'] Bad news sorry about that. . I always think this is their starting point to see how many customers continue to push. Did the inspector check the packaging as well as inspecting the damaged cab, given that this is what they are basing their argument on? [/quote] Yes, they checked the cab and packaging in person and we only got the quoted reply above, no more details whatsoever. To be honest I was expecting they would say it was down to packaging and refuse our claim, I did no think for one minute they would admit it was down to them mishandling the parcels.. Me and the person that received the cab, both agreed there was more then enough packaging, it was packed to their criteria, even some extra protection from the padded cover, and we don't really understand how they managed to crack the wood this way.

I recently sent a speaker cab and it was damaged in transit. I insured the cab for the whole value, and paid extra as requested. I believe I packed the cab well enough to survive the journey, I used a double lined corrugated strong box, lots and lots of bubble wrap and the cab also had a thick padded cover. The cab was tight inside the box and taped well so the parcel arrived safely but even then the courier managed to damage the cab. See photo: [url="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/PauBass/media/Barefaced/image2_zpsqqjue2rr.jpg.html"][/url] I don't really understand how did they manage to crack the cab like this! As soon as the cab arrived and the damaged was seen I started a claim, a slow process with lack of communication from their side, people turning up to collect the cab for inspection without us having been notified, very late or no replies to emails, a few phone calls later and finally, quite a few days later someone from the company turned up to inspect the cab and yesterday I received an email saying: [b]Thank you for submitting your images of the damages in support of your claim request. We have received the result of the damage inspection and it is with regret that we inform you that on this occasion, the packaging was found to be insufficient for transport via courier.[/b] Obviously I'm appealing their decision on the grounds that I packed the cab as per their website criteria. As mentioned I used lots and lots and lots of bubble wrap, the padded cover and a strong box. I have not seen or received any more detailed report, no mention on what exactly was insufficient or what aspect of the packaging, just a simple insufficient packaging. If my appeal is not successful, what other options do I have? I'm confident in the way the cab was packed and I don't really understand how they managed to cause this damaged! The parcel must have sustained a very, very, very serious impact which clearly shows a lack of care when handling the parcel and the courier is trying to blame this on me and the lack of protection...we are talking cracking wood even with all the protection it had. Has any one been on a similar position? I have sent many, many items over the years, I always take good care of the packaging, and this is a first for me. Thanks in advance for your help guys.