Bill Fitzmaurice

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1394583704' post='2393116'] Trace did a 3x12 guitar cab with the speakers all angled in different directions. Needless to say it never caught on. [/quote]It was doomed because it didn't come from the usual cookie cutter mold. Trouble is, if you only try cookies from the usual mold you might never taste biscotti.

The depth per se doesn't make much of a difference, but the volume of the enclosure determines how the speaker will perform. Too small and the low end will be choked off while the midbass will be boomy.

[quote name='andrewrx7' timestamp='1394540612' post='2392387'] Crikey, my lunch break isn't long enough to read all that link! Thanks for that, I'll see how much of it I understand! [/quote]Scroll down to [i]What if We Try a Different Type of Horizontal Array?[/i] to get to the meat of it. [quote]Sunn Beta guitar combo had cross-firing speakers[/quote]Cross-firing works. It's never been successful in the marketplace because 'it looks funny'. With bass cabs cross-firing reduces the internal volume of the cab, and that reduces bass response and output. Bass also has far less issues with beaming than guitar, so cross-firing isn't as beneficial as with guitar.

[quote name='andrewrx7' timestamp='1394528295' post='2392142'] Would not having several speakers slightly angled provide a more even sound to an audience? [/quote]It won't. This explains why. It's about PA, but the physics is the same: http://www.gtaust.com/filter/05/07.shtml The number one enemy of good horizontal dispersion is horizontally placed drivers. The number one reason why drivers are placed horizontally is 'that's how we've always done it'.

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1394451692' post='2391390'] Fender Rumble cabs (1x12" and 2x8") are only 250W RMS, don't mind the "programme" numbers, only the "continuous power" ratings. [/quote]The wattage ratings are fairly meaningless, whichever you look at. Output is limited by the total driver displacement. A pair of eights that you might find in a Rumble have perhaps 150cc of displacement. One ten in that price range will have around 140cc, one twelve around 230cc.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1392833657' post='2373287'] How long before we see a spate of cabs all looking like your simplexx range I wonder... [/quote]What makes them different is what's on the inside anyway.

[quote name='Torben Hedstrøm' timestamp='1392819561' post='2373062'] But if companies like MarkBass, Genz Benz (R.I.P), SWR (R.I.P), EBS, Glockenklang etc. Don't have engineers doing actual optimizations for both cabs and amps, I would be very surprised !. [/quote]I wouldn't. I could tell you of a number of companies who have no engineers, because I've done designs for them. I could, but I won't, because that would violate the first thing that they make you sign before embarking on a project, which is a non-disclosure agreement. More than a few companies would be severely embarrased if it was known that they don't do their own R&D. Some don't even hire outside engineers. You'd be amazed at how many companies arrive at their designs by simply copying others. You'd also be shocked to know how many don't build their own cabs. There are a number of independent cabinet building companies who build cabs for many companies all under the same roof.

It won't bother anything, but it won't sound good, mainly because of the speakers. Guitar speakers are made to distort at low output levels, bass speakers are made not to distort.

[quote name='Torben Hedstrøm' timestamp='1392805588' post='2372866'] Don't get me wrong, I am sure that their products are excellent, but they are measuring themselves against corporations with million dollar R&D budgets, [/quote]When those comparisons are made it's the corporations with 'million dollar R&D budgets' that come up short. First off, no bass cab manufacturer spends that kind of money on R&D. For that matter, a very small percentage of their budget is devoted to R&D with respect to technical improvements. Most of it is spent on market research for what really sells cabs, which isn't how they sound. It's how they look.

[quote name='famine43' timestamp='1392803163' post='2372829'] I've done some research and am currently torn between the Eminence Beta 10A or the Celestion BL10-200X. [/quote]How did they compare to each other after you modeled them in your cab with speaker modeling software and you compared the high frequency response on the manufacturer driver data sheets?

[quote name='bass2345' timestamp='1392000774' post='2363476'] What do you think? Does it matter if I play an open D string instead of fifth fret on the A string, for example? [/quote]Yes. The fundamental to harmonic intensity ratio is greater with the longer string length. But from a playing standpoint I don't consider that over the ease of fingering. I take the shortest route from note to note. That means I may play the same note on two different strings during a song if that's what results in the least amount of hand movement. The difference between the sound of the two is apparent when playing alone, but in the context of with a band it gets buried in the mix.

[quote name='leosep' timestamp='1391781745' post='2361213'] Thanks bill, yes i know drivers and cabs must be matched, using speaker modeling software, i have WinISD. Just wanted to know if these spekers that i already have could do the job, at least for a practice cab. I think i need to buy new ones then. I dont have the cabs done yet. [/quote]If you already have them you've got nothing to lose, and it gives you the opportunity to experiment without making a huge investment.

This is one of those "if you have to ask" scenarios. Drivers and cabs must be matched, using speaker modeling software, like WinISD Alpha Pro, which will accurately predict the low frequency response and maximum output, while results above 200Hz can be seen on the driver data sheet SPL charts. If you had the necessary skills to design your own cab, or to driver swap with an existing cab, you wouldn't be asking this question, and acquiring these skills literally takes years. If you're just learning start with tested designs using the drivers recommended for them for the first few builds; when you really start to understand how speakers work then you can start experimenting on your own. As to those drivers, the first and last I'd avoid because you don't get the quality you need at those prices. The second looks OK, but the mids are weak, so it would best be used in a three way design. It's more of a PA driver than electric bass.

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1391204312' post='2354662'] Would playing them too cold mean lack of optimum performance, or actual risk of damage? [/quote]I've had raw drivers that I left in my workshop overnight at 40F measure nearly an octave above spec. If you were to play though them in that state and try to get them sounding normal you might damage them. It's like a car, you don't want to start it cold and go to cruising speed before the oil has come up to temp. Not that you know what cold is, a Scotsman might.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1391180164' post='2354244'] I'd like to keep the character of the cab, it's got a lovely amount of of low end. [/quote]You'd have to match the T/S specs and response of the drivers, and Ampeg won't give you that information, nor will Eminence as it's a proprietary OEM driver. I can tell you that the OEM drivers weigh only 6.7 pounds each, so you'd save very little, if any, weight with neos.

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1391188361' post='2354424'] I suppose I have concerns over speaker degradation and bring the cabinets from a cold environment into a warm/moistish one. [/quote]That concern is valid. Cold speakers don't work to spec, and it takes a long time for them to warm, as the insulation inside them works like a cooler. So long as they're stored above freezing you're OK, but I wouldn't store them where it goes below freezing unless they'll have a few hours to warm up before using them.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1391016560' post='2352320'] I was thinking of building a jack or two too, I didn't think the 15 was that much better than the 12 and would have probably tried to build the lite version. What a lot of users, and Bill himself, said is that they do need Eq to work well - and my preamp doesn't really have enough bands to do that. [/quote]A five band EQ is sufficient, maybe four if one is parametric. But two or three isn't going to do it for most. As for the lows, they're no less than any 1x15, and more than most. But the mids are so much more prominent that it may seem to have less low end.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1390810749' post='2349643'] What it actually is that's making that difference for me, I admit I don't know. [/quote]The power supply. The main deficiency of most Class D amps is that they lack sufficient capacitive storage capacity. Manufacturers in their zeal to make the amp as small as possible don't put in enough capacitors to do the job. If you look under the hood of a really well made Class D you'll find half the chassis filled with storage capacitors.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1390781290' post='2349552'] That's just it - no huge transformers - no oomph. Physics! [/quote]Class D is about the power amp, not the power supply. No one who owns one of these complains about lack of oomph. https://www.djdeals.co.uk/prod-details.asp?AID=3067

[quote name='DiMarco' timestamp='1390688930' post='2348409'] I tried the brightbox both horizontal and vertical. There is no difference in the sound whatsoever (even when walking up n down the room) by putting it up straight so it is going to remain horizontal. [/quote]That's not where you'd notice a difference, it's side to side. The reason why can be found here: [url="http://www.gtaust.com/filter/05/07.shtml"]http://www.gtaust.co...ter/05/07.shtml[/url]

There are two issues here. One is Class D amps. There is nothing about Class D that's inherently any better or worse than any other class. How well or how poorly the manufacturer makes it is the question, and where that's concerned you can make a really good or a really bad amp of any class. The worst amp I ever had was all valve A/B. The other issue is DSP. You're seeing a lot of Class D amps using it, because that's what accounts for the majority of new amp designs. If DSP had been available when SET ruled the roost they'd have been in those as well. Here also implementation is the issue. Some are very good, some not so much. You can pretty much tell which came out of the minds of engineers who also happen to be bassplayers, and which from those who'd be more at home doing video games.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1390643295' post='2347789'] There's some on here that say Orange bass cabs are just guitar cabs in disguise. [/quote]Not really, as they do use bass drivers. But the bass drivers they use, Eminence Beta 10 and Kappa 15 for instance, are hardly state of the art, and are way out of line with the price paid for the cabs. As to the OP question, it will take at least two guitar cabs to deliver the same midbass output as one bass cab, and you lose the bottom octave entirely.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1390398493' post='2344917'] I wonder what the collective wisdom and experience here says. [/quote]If you like what you have but need it louder for big gigs add another, it will sound even better. If you don't like what you have try other cabs and when you find one that's better get one, or two, and sell/trade what you have now. Asking others opinions of what might work best will get you almost as many different opinions as you do answers, none of them valid, as no one can tell you what you like. Only you can do that.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1390258248' post='2343373'] If it's an actual Neutric Speakon, if it says Combo on it, then you can pop a 1/4 jack in it. [/quote]You can tell by the color. Speakon 1/4" combination jacks are green.

Consider the last thing that lies between your ax and you ears: it's your speakers. Everything that preceeds them all the way back to the strings will only sound as good, or as bad, as they will allow.