Bill Fitzmaurice

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1370808635' post='2105898'] I'm thinking of replacing our PA for our three-piece band (guitar, bass and drums) with a Bose L1 Model 2 with a B1 bass module with a T1 ToneMatch module. From what I can assess, it would be fine in a band situation for up to 200 people ..... which is the most we ever do. [/quote]A keyboard player friend of mine has an L1 with two bass modules, and when he does his single act it works OK for his keys and vocals. When he plays with my R&B band only his keys go through it, his vocals go through my PA, and we generally play 200 seat rooms. For singles and acoustic acts they're OK, though grossly over priced. For a real band, forget about it.

[quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1370783106' post='2105436'] Any amp/electronic experts able to answer me this? I use a Markbass CMD121P combo. I just replaced the internal piezo-tweeter with a better mini-horn. Is there any risk to my amp from this? [/quote]There is, as piezos generally do not use crossovers, and when they do they do not have the same topology as those used by dynamic drivers. You can't just swap a dynamic tweeter for a piezo, and the crossover for a dynamic tweeter must be specifically configured for it. You're running the risk of blowing the tweeter and possibly the amp as well.

[quote name='graham1945' timestamp='1368869585' post='2082400'] I read somewhere that you should never run a valve amp without speakers, however, does the same apply to all transistor and the new class D amps? In other words could I use a class D amp as a preamp only without connecting it to speakers? [/quote]Valves need a load, SS doesn't. Most valve amps short the output just in case you forget to plug speakers in, to prevent damage.

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1370614109' post='2103493'] So, I called Ashdown, there is nothing they can do as they have no more LG parts or modules in stock. [/quote]Try Alto, that's where Ashdown got them from.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1370257014' post='2098084'] No problems as long as: 1. Each speaker cone is rated 250 watts or more - and just having looked it seems the Eminence Beta is. [/quote]From the standpoint of not cooking the voice coils, true. But with only 3mm xmax they reach their mechanical limit in the lows at about 50 watts each, so any hint of farting out should be well heeded.

Make sure the fault is the amp and not the bass.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1370078726' post='2096233'] As an aside, does anyone have an idea how much the output of a typical valve amp is reduced when running into an impedance mismatch? [/quote]Tubes have constant power output because the tubes don't see the speaker as the load impedance, they see the primary winding of the output transformer.

[quote name='dangoose' timestamp='1370038929' post='2096017'] I have 72 Bassman 50 silverface and it works well with 4ohm loads. I wouldn't run it into any load less than 4 ohms, the output transformer was designed for a 4ohm total(its not switchable). [/quote]The original Bassman cab was 4 ohms, and the head was designed to use two of them. Not knowing any better we used to run Bassman, Bandmaster and Showman heads into four 4 ohm cabs with no ill effect. We ran them into 8 ohm cabs also, no problem. As is the case with all tube amps they're happy with low impedance loads but not high impedance, so I'd not use one with a 16 ohm cab.

[quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1369934528' post='2094692'] One thing I thought that might work would be to get hold of another identical cab and use them as PA. Does this sound feasible? [/quote]No. Most bass cabs don't have the flat frequency response nor wide dispersion required for PA. Some are OK, mainly 3 ways, but this isn't one of them.

They're pretty anemic, but able to handle even 1 ohm loads, so a 4 ohm 8x10 won't bother it a bit.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1369415873' post='2089091'] You wont get a 410 sound out of a 112... [/quote]You may get more. An Orange OBC 410 is loaded with Eminence Beta 10 drivers, with a total displacement of 408cc. A barefaced Big Baby has 496cc. But it does use a midrange driver, so unlike a 410 you won't get comb filtering and a very small midrange dispersion angle, if you're into that.

As you should have noted by now you'll get just about as many opinions as you do responses. BTW, assuming what matters as much as anything else to you is actual output capability, that has nothing to do with the power rating, and everything to do with the driver cone displacement, T/S spec Vd. That's what you should be looking for. Unfortunately, only Barefaced tells you what the displacement is for their drivers. If you can find out what drivers are in other cabs you can search it down, but most won't tell you. As to how critical displacement is, doubling displacement gives 6dB of additional output capability, which is the equivalent of quadrupling the power. http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1368696845' post='2080217'] Who is this grandad clown reviving these old threads? [/quote]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368666084' post='2080062'] Don't mistake watts for volume. They don't really relate. [/quote]+1. And, to answer the original question, the best BW made has only 4.8mm xmax. That limits it to perhaps 100w before farting out in the lows. There are BWs with as little as 1.2mm xmax, making them good for only 25w. Thermal watt ratings alone mean little, as do driver diameters.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368621958' post='2079283'] Only one octave away from a sensible bandwidth for electric bass though. [/quote]It's not the first time a manufacturer chose an inappropriate driver based purely on the thermal power rating and an inexpensive price. That tradition goes all the way back to Leo Fender.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368620389' post='2079249'] Think the theme is Orange use drivers for their watt ratings rather than their suitable for electric bass bandwidth. [/quote]+1. The 115 uses this driver: http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=EMIKAP15A&browsemode=category While it has a 450 watt thermal rating it will only take 100 watts in the low end before farting out. And note the price.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368537903' post='2078146'] which I have been assuming is why the 8x10 is a standard big stage accessory. [/quote]The 810, specifically the SVT, is the standard big stage box because they're simply loud enough to please virtually anyone. Rental companies don't want to have to stock a dozen brands, and almost no one complains about running through an SVT.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368536916' post='2078126'] I've used a cab loaded with them, not much going on very high or low, but enough in the middle bit to work fine as a cab. [/quote]In other words, vintage tone. The thing about 'vintage tone' is that those of us who played in the 60s were never thrilled about it, not being able to stray below 'A' at a decent volume without farting out. The E string might as well have not been there for all the use you could get out of it. Given the penchant for guitar players to write songs in the key of E back then it led to very thin bass parts.

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1368474896' post='2077573'] Or should I just sell them on and start from scratch? [/quote]That. Unless you can get complete specs on them any cabinet build is a shot in the dark. [quote]Fundamental resonance was very high at 72Hz, so loads of low-mids but short on very low bass.[/quote]If that's the case they're really not well suited for electric bass.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1368101849' post='2073177'] Rather off topic, but in Europe at least there have been recent recommendations and defined standards using perceived loudness-based metering that are changing this, and will have knock-on effects for music production intended for commercial broadcast - if anyone's interested look up ITU BS.1770-3 and the earlier EBU R128. The old trick of overcompressing will potentially be quite counterproductive as the level will get dropped anyway. [/quote]One can get around that by fiddling with the frequency content, emphasizing the mids. You can't beat the marketeers. That's why I record what I want to watch and view it at a later date, so I can jump the commercials and regain the 20 minutes out of every viewing hour I'd otherwise lose to them.

[quote name='voxpop' timestamp='1368085854' post='2072898'] Think of it as being like the ads on telly. The peaks in volume are the same as the programmes but the average volume is raised because of the compression they apply to the sound. Great way of explaining SS v Valve loudness. [/quote]+1. Regulations say that commercials cannot be louder than the program. By using compression the maximum dB level isn't higher, but the content has higher density due to the loss of dynamic range, so it sounds louder. Not because the peaks are any higher, but because the valleys have been filled in.

[quote name='polyrythmmm' timestamp='1367924002' post='2070993'] Now if you guys could have a nice back and forth re: Apparent volume of tube watts versus SS, and how this manifests itself in the arena of driver calculations... ? ... [/quote]Nothing changes. The transfer function of tubes is different mainly due to their inherent compression; you can duplicate the effect with SS using the right signal processing. Speakers are dullards, they can't tell the difference between a volt that's tube versus SS sourced, so they'll give the same result in either case.

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1367648271' post='2067863'] So why, as bassplayers, are we feeling the need for a half kilowatt stack for the low end? [/quote]To paraphrase Sir Edmund Hillary, "because they're there". In 1965 I bought a 50 watt Fender Bassman because it was what was available. If I could have bought a 500w ten pound Class D micro-amp instead, I would have.

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1365800014' post='2044826'] Are you sure about that Bill? I'm sure I remember bass drivers in the sidewinder range as well. [/quote]AFAIK there are no T/S specs anywhere for them, but they were supposedly a knock off of the EV SRO, which was a guitar/musical instrument driver, back before there was much differentiaton, if any, between guitar and bass drivers. I had an SRO 15, which was a monster guitar driver, able to split eardrums at 200 meters. On bass it would fart out at 40 watts.

They're guitar drivers.