Bill Fitzmaurice

Not as sick as I am of seeing blokes proclaim "I WON!!!" When you win something your cost is nothing. When you 'win' on ebay you're the one who was left paying the highest price after all the rest decided it wasn't worth it.

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1331570421' post='1575027'] I'd take both ratings with a pinch of salt myself. [/quote] A truckload is more like it. What consumers are most interested in is how loud they go, be it PA or bass cabs. Wattage doesn't tell you that. SPL charted frequency response, sensitivity, and driver displacement do. Many PA manfacturers provide all of that data, as opposed to the electric bass cab industry, where none do. Of course it's the higher end goods that are best documented.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1330350638' post='1555988'] Thanks Bill, and I would guess that, to a certain extent, a 1x15 topped by a 2x10 forms two diagonal pairs? [/quote]Absolutely. When drivers aren't vertical dispersion is lost. That's one of the reasons why the 4x10 configuration makes no sense. Ostensibly tens are used due to the generally higher frequency response they're capable of. But when placed side by side the dispersion of those highs, and of the mids as well, is halved.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1330338567' post='1555767'] but for whatever reason have always been a little suspicious of diagonally orientated cabs? [/quote]Justifiably. That's not the best way to make a cab, vertical drivers is, and if they don't know how drivers should be placed you must wonder what else they don't know. Not that they're alone in faulty engineering practice by any means, the guys who get it right are distinctly in the minority. But that shortens the list to choose from.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1330122759' post='1553216'] , I've had mixed/unpredictable results with mixed cabs. [/quote]That's because different cabs have different reponses, which don't always play well togther. But if you're running separate pickups into separate amps having speakers with different responses isn't a concern. I suggested a twelve on top with the bridge pickup as that pickup has more highs, less lows, and a twelve or even perhaps a ten may work better with it than a fifteen where you already have the fifteen on the neck pickup to handle the lows.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1330027054' post='1551759'] OK, looks like I'n not bi-amping then. Not really stereo I'm after either. Bridge cab on top is what I've done in the past (the Mesa 1516 didn't give me a whole lot of options in that respect), and I loved it. FWIW Bill, I could certainly hear a substantial difference between the same instrument (Ric 4003 FL) going through one channel and then into the 1516, and the same bass going through two channels and then each into the two separate inputs of the 1516. While I'll admit that part of this was the different EQ on each channel, even flat there was a significant and pleasing difference. Assuming then that it's stereo and not bi-amping I'm after, what combination would you recommend? Chris [/quote]Normally you use identical cabs with stacking, but as you have two sources there's no need for that. Trial and error is your best bet, until you find what you like the best, I'd start with a 15 on the bottom 12 on the top.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1330018732' post='1551580'] Thanks Bill Not sure I agree with Point 1 (having tried it a few times). Point 2, not after a stereo bass effect for sure, but it would be fun to try the HiFi thing, if only to scare the neighbours, Point 3, I agree entirely Just to reiterate, I think a lot of this comes down to taste, and most Ric players I know prefer a certain tone which is perhaps different to mine. I play heavy flats and prefer both PUPs wide open, with a pronounced 'click' and punchy attack from the bridge PUP with a full on rumble underneath from the neck PUP (I don't use a pick but have enough nail on my first two plucking fingers to go for a soft flesh only finger style to using nail and getting quite a fast pick-like attack). No doubt I can get this without bi-amping, but the few experiments I've tried so far allow for far more control over the tone when I do by amp then when i don't. And like I said, it's a slow day at work 's [/quote]I don't believe you know what bi-amping is. It's running a single source into a two-way speaker system with an active crossover and two amps, one for each passband, rather than a single amp with a passive crossover. What you're describing is simple stereo, two full range cabs with independent sources independently powered. 'Stereo effect' is what happens if you have the two speakers horizontally separated by six feet or more, When placed vertically there is no stereo effect. The preferred setup would have the bridge pickup cab on top.

[quote name='umph' timestamp='1330002401' post='1551128'] get a guitar amp for the bridge, put it on full [/quote]+1. Bi-amping with two bass cabs accomplishes zilch. [quote]I've tried the guitar amp thing and it wasn't quite what i was after,[/quote]That suggest that bi-amping is not what you want to do. Perhaps you mean stereo. . [quote]it looked crap [/quote]Only guitar'd players should care more about how their rig looks than how it sounds.

Back in the day Fenders had a piece of neoprene under the bridge cover. The first thing everyone did after buying one was to remove it. I suppose you could use some urethane foam, but my advise is to learn how to mute the strings with your hands.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1329072456' post='1536813'] I dare say that 10 or so boost pedals in a row should do the job. [/quote]No need to experiment, the maximum clean output of ten pedals would be the same as one. Power amps are not optional. They are a necessity. [quote]I dare say that 10 or so boost pedals in a row should do the job[/quote]For the cost you could buy a micro amp, and it would actually work.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1328885200' post='1534360'] What the hell is ohmage? [/quote]It's what you pay to Ent or Sir Paul. Perhaps Sting.

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1328793097' post='1532685'] Sorry but £45 for a device that improves your sound quality live is hardly a fortune. [/quote]No argument there. However, a great deal of the justification for that price is the claim that [i]'This riser yields nearly total acoustic isolation, resulting in a purity of tone that has to be heard to be believed![/i]' is pure unadulterated baloney, a fact that should be pointed out to those considering purchasing one. One of the purposes of a forum such as this is to point out whether a product delivers on it's promises, and if there are alternatives that work just as well at a far lower cost.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1328740333' post='1532100'] I have not found camping mats as effective as strips of thicker structural foam. [/quote]I use a single thickness to isolate a rattling head from the cab and it works very well. If you need more isolation you may use more than one layer, and there's a lot of material in one mat to cut up and stack. The only application where I've found thick structural foam to be necessary is for isolating a drum riser from a flimsy floor or stage.

[quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1328736330' post='1532029'] It's all very well being "Techy" with Vested interest, I'm just a punter happy with a product. It might suit, it might not, no big deal . I'm sure a trial would clarify this.... Snake Oil ...shame on you are you not selling enough "Voice of the Theatre" design concepts? Oooooer . [/quote]There are uses for isolation pads, decoupling isn't one of them. Sorry that you accepted their advertising claims at face value and paid ten times what you needed to. But there's no need to recommend that others follow suit.

[quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1328724387' post='1531762'] [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Auralex_Isolation_Risers.html"]http://www.bassdirec...ion_Risers.html[/url] This item might alleviate any feedback and give you all the ooomph you amp and cab can provide. I use one, it de-couples the cab from the floor and thereby removes unwanted resonance as well. [/quote]Most of the claims made by that are snake-oil. Alex covers it well on the Barefaced Bass site. If you do need to do what the Auralex does one of these does it just as well: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trial-Camping-Pad-Blue/16783660 [quote]As for the problems resulting from raising the cab, I've posted about that before and it seems the loss of low and low mid isn't from lack of contact but from boundary cancellation. Basically, i'm raising the cab too high. [/quote]+1, there are no losses from lack of mechanical coupling because there's no such thing as mechanical coupling, other than in advertising copy. Raise it too high and you lose some acoustical coupling in the midbass, when that's the case don't lift it so high to hear the mids, just til it back.

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1328713624' post='1531541'] So i was idly wondering whether a lower impedence cab would free up some headroom. [/quote]Not enough to bother with. If your amp has adequate voltage swing to drive the speaker to full output at 8 ohms then you gain nothing by going to four. If it doesn't the most additional output you can get is 2dB, because an amp doesn't deliver twice the power into a halved impedance load at full power, it does so only at small signal levels.

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1328701407' post='1531277'] If they're not common, is there any particular reason why? [/quote]Unless you have an amp capable of 2 ohm operation you'd only be able to use one. And there's no benefit to running a 4 ohm cab.

[quote name='Freddie75' timestamp='1328561543' post='1529209'] I don't really have much knowledge in this area so any help would be appreciated. [/quote] A great deal of knowledge is required for a successful result. For one thing the power rating of the drivers has no direct relationship with output capability. IMO if you don't like what you have sell them and buy something you do like.

Beta is a simplified version ( it has nothing to do with age) using fewer driver parameters, so the result isn't as accurate.

[quote name='frosty55' timestamp='1328357218' post='1525890'] I didnt choose the driver, I just found it up in the loft. I have a bass guitar and a 100W H&H amp, and I wouldnt mind gigging again. I just need a plan, with dimensions, of a suitable cab. [/quote]In that case you'll find it on the Eminence site,

[quote name='frosty55' timestamp='1328184784' post='1523148'] I was actually looking for dimensions/plan of the cab. Cant calculate from graphs and suchlike. Seems like you need a degree in maths for that. Any other sources you know of? [/quote]My first question would be why the Delta 15? If you can't answer that question based on your results of software modeling its response and displacement limited output then you shouldn't be considering it at all. And if you were able to model its response and displacement limited output you wouldn't be asking about cab designs. Before thinking about building your own cab you do need to have a very good undertsanding of what's contained at these two sources, and how to use design software: http://www.eminence.com/support/understanding-loudspeaker-data/ http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=219617

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1328122134' post='1522226'] Well it is an interesting choice of driver with High Q and high Vas it wants a big cab. Win ISD came up with 654l as a first suggestion! With a 100litre cab tuned to 40 Hz (10.2cm dia 7.81cm port) it shows a big peak in the bass at 100Hz (about 3dB) but quite wide and flat. Combined with this speaker's big midrange peak this is going to have an 'interesting' sound. You might like it. [/quote]+1. It's an adequate driver for a very low power amp that needs a midbass response peak, 50 watts tops. but that's it.

[quote name='Dave Tipping' timestamp='1327619490' post='1514481'] Any suggestions for a nifty way to damp the vibrations between the two? [/quote]You should be able to find something like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trial-Camping-Pad-Blue/16783660

[quote name='nickhuge' timestamp='1327600588' post='1514083'] Its interesting that on the markbass site it says "This cabinet was redesigned in Spring 2007, and now stacks perfectly with all Standard series cabinets." If it's a bad idea, why redesign it? [/quote]Manufacturers build what sells, what sells is cabs sized so that they stack nice and pretty. How they sound together is not a consideration. Looks is what sells cabs. As for the issue of watts: moot. Watts have very little to do with how loud a rig will go. Why is nicely spelled out at the Barefaced Bass site.

[quote name='nickhuge' timestamp='1327597457' post='1514021'] The Ampeg is rated at 500W. What do I need to get in terms of specs for a suitable pairing? Another 8ohm, but what power handling? [/quote]Power ratings are meaningless. What matters is impedance, displacement and phase response. For equal power into both cabs they must be the same impedance. For equal ability to use that power both cabs must have the same driver displacement. For the same phase response they must be identical drivers. With identical cabs you get all of the above, with mis-matched cabs the best you're likley to realize is equal impedance.