Bill Fitzmaurice

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361879249' post='1992237'] Review of the Baer ML112 Well, not really a review as such, but I thought I’d flesh out my earlier remarks for those of you planning to audition the Baer cabs. Here are a few pointers gleaned from the measurements from the Bass Gear test that may be of help. I’ll try to keep it salient. The first thing you notice on the Bass Gear frequency response plot is the first thing you will hear when you listen to the product. There is a large (6dB or so) peak at around 1600Hz which is the main breakup mode of the bass driver. This peak comprises distortion and delayed resonances (‘ringing’) and is fairly typical of some Eminence LF drivers. Normal practice is to neutralize such peaks by putting them well out of the passband. These are resonances, not unlike cabinet resonances, and are normally undesirable. One of the benefits of using a midrange driver is that you get to take these “nasty" breakup frequencies out of the equation and replace them with a nice smooth, clean, uncoloured midrange. There are several other benefits of this arrangement, including directional consistency up to a much higher frequency than the bass driver can manage on its own. However, because the crossover frequency of the ML112 is at a very high 1500 – 1700 Hz (where you would expect to cross to a 1” compression driver like in Duke’s AudioKinesis system) this speaker gains few of the benefits of a bass/mid design where the transition normally takes place much lower (at around 600Hz). It’s almost as if the midrange driver in this system were being used as tweeter. The sharp cancellations in the off axis responses show that the crossover design is flawed (the off-axis curves should be smooth). This is also likely to have a negative effect on sound quality in this area. [/quote]All of that assumes that the Bass Gear chart is accurate. It is not. Why has already been explained in great detail. And as they have always used the same flawed measuring technique every chart they've ever published is not accurate. I don't see that you've been breaking every other manufacturers balls over the disinformation published by Bass Gear, so why you're picking on Baer suggests a personal agenda. And it reminds me why I long ago put you on my ignore list, and why you're going back on it after this short hiatus.

If it is a power amp it must be used with a pre-amp. You really can't be sure of what its capable of if you don't have one.

[quote]If Bill would like to chime in with how the test were conducted, I will gladly allow that, as it is really out of my area of expertise and I don't want to give out the wrong information. [/quote]I measured the cab in the fashion proscribed by the AES and EIA, half-space anechoic. Doing so without an anechoic chamber is a two step process. Done outdoors, away from any structures, a ground plane measurement is taken first. This gives a half space result below the baffle step frequency. I do so at a distance of four meters with a sixteen watt signal, which corresponds to 1m/1w. Measuring at a closer distance gives an inaccurate result. Then the cab is put on its back, aimed upwards, the mic suspended four meters above. Another measurement is taken, this one giving a half space result above the baffle step frequency. The two results are spliced, giving a true half-space result. This procedure is starkly different from the Bass Gear procedure, which consists of sticking a mic in front of the cab, taking a single measurement at close range on the HF element axis. When you do so you get a half space result below the baffle step, a quarter space result above the baffle step, along with inaccuracies caused by floor bounce and response lobing, rendering the measurement useless for comparison purposes other than to measurements of other cabs taken using the same flawed technique.

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1361611756' post='1988161'] I think you are being rather unfair to Mr Baer here. The analogy of sitting in a pub and an insurance salesman coming up to you with some hard sell has no comparison to the situation here. This is a bass guitar forum, and this is a thread specifically started to discuss his products. [/quote]+1. Roger didn't start a thread about his product, he merely responded to one. If you want to see that no manufacturer will come here hauling those who do over the coals is a good way to be sure of it.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1361663639' post='1989142'] Thanks to a NIMBY neighbour, the venue has has one of those frickin' sound monitors attached to a set of miniature traffic lights. [/quote]I was employed by a major venue to fix their noise issues, because despite having one of those in the FOH they had a continuing problem. The thing never went off but the complaints still raged. No wonder, the idiots who came up with their noise control plans and sold them this gizmo for $25,000 used industrial noise standards, which specify 'A' weighting. The bass was roaring at 110dB plus in the FOH and the meter system, set at 100dB, being 'A' weighted never measured it. In any event if your venues meter is 'A' weighted it will never know you're there anyway.

[quote name='surfguy13' timestamp='1361635195' post='1988607'] Yes, the Selmer has two outputs on the rear panel....a 7.5 and a 15 as Musky mentioned. It is a 50 watt valve head, not SS. It has SS rectification though if that makes a difference? So....am I right in thinking that if I take a lead from the 16 ohm 'out' on the amp and then somehow split the lead with a jack going to each 16 ohm socket on the cabs I'll be OK? [/quote]Or you could use the 4 ohm load option on the 7.5 ohm tap. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, the result will be the same. Back in the day when the original Kustom PA was introduced they inexplicably only had one output jack for the two columns. The supplied cable was two sixteen foot lengths, coupled in a single jack that plugged into the head. It worked, but it was hardly convenient.

[quote name='surfguy13' timestamp='1361619521' post='1988316'] Could I, for example, take a single cable from the 8 ohm speaker out jack on the head and split it? Would this still give me 8 ohms to each cab? [/quote]You have it backwards. The cabs load the amp, not the other way around. If you Y the output jack to each cab, plugging into the 8 ohm jacks, that will place a 4 ohm load on the amp. Doing so to the 32 ohm jacks will place a 16 ohm load on the amp. If the amp output is rated for 8 ohm operation which to use depends on the amp. If valve use the 4 ohm option, if SS use the 16 ohm.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1361615163' post='1988226'] Hi Roger, Well [b][i]I[/i][/b] appreciate your input to basschat. Thank you for joining us. By the way, nIce cabs. You must be doing something right for BFM not to be able to find fault with them! [/quote]I never said they were as good as mine. What I can say is that if one is going to make a cab of this sort, a 1x12 2-way direct radiator, this one was done right. That does put it in a decided minority of what's out there, as IME at least 90% of the rest are flawed in one fashion or another.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361542631' post='1987248'] If tests are supposedly too technical for most to comphrend, translate, analyse or relate to something meaniful, then they are just as worthless in some regard. [/quote]That's the party line spouted by those members of the industry who don't provide test results. It's thinly vieled subterfuge to obfuscate the real reason why they won't provide valid test results conducted with accepted methodology: They don't want you to see them. That doesn't mean one should go by tests alone; a mix of both subjective and objective data is far preferable to only the one or the other. If the consumer doesn't care about test results that's his right. But the consumer should at least have access to objective data, and not be told in so many words [i]"we won't give it to you because you're too stupid to understand it". [/i]

[quote name='surfguy13' timestamp='1361545599' post='1987322'] Can anyone tell me what the resistance is for a AB165 circuit Bassman head from 1967? I was told by an amp tech that I could use a 4,8 or 16 ohm cab. Is this correct? [/quote]The [i]impedance [/i]of the original cab was 4 ohms. It was designed to handle two, making it 2 ohms. We used to run them with anywhere between 1 and 8 ohms with never any complaint. I doubt it would be all that happy at 16 ohms, though.

[quote name='Iana' timestamp='1361479054' post='1986476'] They certainly didn't do TC Electronic any favours! [/quote]That being the power measurement of the amp? I believe that was accurate. It's their speaker response measurements that are essentially worthless, as there's no way to compare them to every source that measures them correctly. If you're going to play the game you have to follow the established rules, you can't just make up your own.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361459243' post='1986002'] That's a bit harsh. You can nit pick, but I've always found Tom's measurements to be the most useful part of his reviews. [/quote]And I've found them the most worthless part of his reviews, as they do not adhere to any measurement standard. From the very first issue they admitted that they were doing their measurements their own way, because they didn't know how to do them the right way. That makes them as useful as mammary glands on a male bovine. I'll stick with half-space anechoic, as that's how all the rest of the audio world does it.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361396538' post='1985460'] Just out of interest, was it the ML112 you measured, Bill? And did it measure the same as the one Tom Bowlus tested in Bass Gear? (I certainly hope not.) [/quote]I don't know if it was the same one that Bowlus tested, but I do know that BG does not know how to test speakers, so any results they show should be ignored. The cab was an ML112 demo making it's rounds though the eastern US, and as a favor to Roger I measured it. If I could find fault I'd say so, but I didn't.

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1361388244' post='1985235'] Interesting that the ML is neo loaded yet is only a couple of lb lighter than my similar sized/spec DB112. Folks often get hung up on the weight saving of neo... not really 'that' much difference! [/quote]That depends on the ceramic driver it's being compared to. The Baer OEM 3012 weighs in at 7.6 pounds. A comparable ceramic driver is at least 10 pounds heavier than that. If it isn't, it's not comparable to the 3012. The Aggie driver is no 3012; it would take at least two of them to match its output. And the ML112 uses a premium midrange driver, which is probably twice the weight of the Aggie tweeter, and it's worth every ounce. I know, because I measured one of Roger's cabs for him.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361222905' post='1983177'] Read the manual carefully. A 2-pin mains lead could be for the US or Europe. [/quote]Not US. We still use 2 pin for some things, like toasters, but not amps, which must have a chassis ground.

A new cable is probably cheaper than a plug. Any computer store should carry them, just be sure of the ampere rating.

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1361202190' post='1982657'] Am I correct in thinking this means that despite having higher peak power handling, the Delta Pro actually has much much lower average power-handling than they Beyma (limited by the Xmax?)[/quote]+1. And the average OEM driver has less xmax than the Delta Pro 12.

[quote name='SPHDS' timestamp='1361188722' post='1982355'] would it be better to pair the existing 2x10s with a 15", or would this muddy the sound, and should go for more 10s, or would a 15 add a better bottom end.....! [/quote]Mixing drivers is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. Trying before buying is the only way to go.

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1361137664' post='1981785'] Thats an odd website, the banner stays in the middle of my screen so youve got to keep scrolling up and down to see the pics around it! [/quote]Their website design skills are apparently no better than their bass cab design skills.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361120311' post='1981342'] Pertinent..as the OP has stated they aren't keen on higher extention/horns. [/quote]BTW, it's not all that difficult to figure out what the Berg HD uses. It's a cast frame driver with an 80oz magnet and 350w coil; that means it's a Delta Pro 12 motor. The Berg version might not be exactly the same as the stock version, but it won't be significantly different. Often the main difference between stock and OEM is push button versus spade lug input connectors.

[quote name='Balcro' timestamp='1361112599' post='1981177'] You've taken the sentence out of it's context in the paragraph. [/quote]Not at all. Entering the Cms and Mms specs often results in error messages. Entering only the specs I noted will never cause a problem. They're also the specs most likely to be accurate on the data sheets. BTW, OP, be sure to compare driver data sheet SPL charts. Bergs use Eminence, which have a characteristic rising sensitivity in the midrange. Beyma does not have that. If crossed over at 1.5kHz or lower to a midrange it's of no consequence, but if not it's major.

[quote name='Balcro' timestamp='1361103782' post='1981030'] Enter the basic data as per the help file. Perhaps the first 5 paramenters, Qes, Qms, Vas, Mms and Cms [/quote]Even that is too much. The issue is that WinISD will calculate the parameters to a higher degree of accuracy than the spec sheets do, and when the results don't agree it results in error messages. The only specs you should enter are Qes, Qms, Vas, Fs, Re, Sd, Xmax, Le and Pe.

[quote name='zapp' timestamp='1360664766' post='1974085'] Has the price just shot up? [/quote]Two years ago. They peaked about one year ago, have come back down somewhat since then.

[quote name='Currrls' timestamp='1360572923' post='1972342'] If I soldered some jack plugs onto the end of the speaker wire and plugged them into the amp would this work? [/quote]Possibly, but hi-fi speakers are not made to withstand the stresses of pro-sound use, so if they do work it may not be for long.

It appears to be a ported cab, which probably indicates it's for bass.