Bill Fitzmaurice

Port velocity at 35Hz is moot with electric bass. You'll never put 450w at 35Hz into that cab. What happens between 50 and 60Hz is what's significant. That said, a 4'' round port is too small for a 15" long excursion driver. BTW, foam damping does not reduce the cab volume. If you're lining the cab with foam you can predict its influence in the Box window, using the advanced tab, changing the Qa value from the default 100, which is a bare box, to 50.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1427790603' post='2734159'] Why not raise it instead of tilting it? If it's tilted, the audience are going to be hearing the dull sound you encountered when you were outside its cone of pleasure. [/quote]Not necessarily, since the midrange and high frequency pattern is cone shaped. The picture below shows +/- 30 degree dispersion, which is about average in the upper mids from a bass cab. In the upper frame the cab flat on the floor puts the audience within the dispersion pattern, but not the player. In the lower frame with the cab tilted both the audience and player are within the dispersion pattern. The issue with lifting the cab is that if you lift a small cab high enough off the floor to hear the mids at close range you will lose boundary reinforcement in the midbass. That can be beneficial, if the room is boomy, as that will reduce the output in the boom frequencies. But in a dead room you may not want that reduction in the midbass. If you want to be ready for any contingency have the ability to either tilt or lift the cab to suit the room.

[quote name='bassmayhem' timestamp='1427654628' post='2732751'] Since the line array makes the sound spread more horisontal, you won't get that [i]rolling and tumbling low frequency rumble[/i] in the church, but a more focused sound that is easy to control.[/quote]The height of the Bose array makes it very limited in how well it works as a line array. It does not function the way the Bose marketing claims. As the bass modules are so small they don't function as line sources at all. Required reading: http://www.diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/nflawp.pdf

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1427569249' post='2731874'] And do you lose any low end by not being in contact with the floor?[/quote]You would not, as being in contact with the floor has no effect on the low end anyway. You have to lift the cab a matter of a few feet to lose any boundary reinforcement, but that's caused by proximity, not contact.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1426974363' post='2724408'] Dull.... ?? making a cab less dull by pointing it at your ears on tilt isn't going to remedy a dull sound going out to the audience [/quote]He did just as he should have, as with the cab on the floor aiming straight out the audience is within the cone shaped midrange and high frequency dispersion pattern, while he is not. Tilting it back both he and the audience will be within said cone.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1426759768' post='2721563'] Yes but even then the mic and position can really affect how you hear all of them [/quote]+1. If one wanted to one could measure the same cab with the mic in three positions, get three different results, then pose the same poll question and see how many saw through the ruse.

A test of this sort will only tell you how the speakers you're listening to it on sound. If that's a full sized stereo system with flat response from 30-15kHz you might glean some benefit, but even then the gear used to make the recording is just as significant as the source. If it's a typical computer speaker the test is meaningless. Even listened to on a good system the test is of dubious value, as the main difference between how different drivers sound will be heard off-axis. A meaningful test would be done with the mic placed 45 degrees off-axis.

Read this. It cites PA subs, but with bass cabs the same physics apply. http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/in_search_of_the_power_alley/

[quote name='MOSCOWBASS' timestamp='1424943047' post='2702106'] I always keep my Barefaced Midget on the floor or somewhere you get boundary reinforcement. Experience of lifting up higher results in quite a lot of low end loss. [/quote]In order to lose acoustic coupling with the floor the cab must be lifted at least 1/4 wavelength. 1/4 wavelength at 100Hz is 2.8 feet, at 80Hz is 3.5 feet, so in most cases there is no meaningful loss of coupling. What's perceived as a loss of lows is actually hearing the mids and highs that you can't hear when the cab is on the floor.

Front port goes lower, because it's larger. The rear port has them on the back because there's no room for them on the front.

[quote name='krispn' timestamp='1424101852' post='2692603'] Any thoughts? [/quote]Don't. The main issue isn't the driver or amp, it's the size of the enclosure. Google 'Hoffman's Iron Law'. If you did this the additional output would be modest at best.

[quote name='Animalbeats' timestamp='1423874523' post='2690086'] I've come across a page of WEM vintage columns with 10" drivers. I'm hoping to pair them with Selmer treble and bass. Do you think they'll be suitable for bass speakers? [/quote]Back in that era they would have used generic musical instrument drivers, good for guitar but not for bass. Using enough of them they would be tolerable, just as the original '69 SVT was tolerable. But they had to use two 8x10s to handle the 300w head. BTW, I saw [i]Ten Years After[/i] the summer before last, but without Alvin Lee it wasn't the same band I saw back in 1969 at a farm in upstate New York by any means.

There's far more to a bass cab than just using drivers intended for bass guitar. For one thing done correctly a bass cab will have roughly twice the internal volume of a guitar cab using the same size drivers. IMO don't throw away good money after bad, use it as is, when you're able to afford it get a proper bass cab.

The result is as unpredictable as mixing drinks. It might be OK, like gin and tonic. It might be disastrous, like Bailey's and lime juice.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1423345789' post='2683826']even the drummer! [/quote]Now you're stretching the bounds of incredulilty.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1423212539' post='2682177'] Hi Bill, If I can borrow this thread for a moment, if you are using good quality leads does the length make any difference - just thinking the lower cab will need a long lead, whereas if you daisy chain you can use two shorter leads? [/quote]Assuming you're not using seriously undergauge cables you're not going to have an issue with the six feet or less for a bass rig. It's with the long leads to PA speakers that you have to be wary.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1423231211' post='2682540'] oh dont start that one again! Well not before weve been around "fodera:worth it?" "Barefaced handles I have known" "this months flavour of the month love in" "rosewood or maple" "are fender any good" "valve or solidstate" "tweeters yay or nay" "and "bass reflex vs horns" [/quote]Get back to us with your opinion after you've built a few dozen guitars and/or basses using different body, neck and fretboard woods. [quote]the tone you hear from the bass is what the pickup 'hears' at its specific location - with a wide-range pickup like an Alembic or Q-Tuner it's very similar to what you'd get from close micing at that point. The tone at that point depends hugely on how the body/neck of the instrument is taking energy from and returning energy to the strings.[/quote]One issue I had with rosewood guitar bodies was an increased tendency for high frequency feedback. Rather than the usual spring/screw mount I ended up isolating the pickups from the body with foam rubber to break the feedback loop. It's not necessary with bass, since you don't run super high gain. This taught me why so many players who use super high gain and lots of distortion effects, like Steve Vai, prefer a lower density body, like basswood. I tried a basswood bass body once and the tone and sustain were so bad that it ended up as firewood after one gig. That's when I also found out that basswood doesn't even burn well.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1423228365' post='2682479'] I know it's been a commonly debated subject. I know that in an acoustic instrument there is a noticeable difference, but for electric, the debates have mostly said it's minimal.[/quote]Said debates don't take place between luthiers. They shouldn't take place between players either, as Les Paul among others sorted this out in the 1940s. Density is the main factor, not weight. Thirty years ago I found that solid rosewood gave tone and sustain that you couldn't get with anything off the shelf, including ash, but at the cost of literally unbearable weight. I then went to a semi-hollowbody construction similar to what Rickenbacker uses in their semi-hollows, with the thickness of the top and back about 1/4 inch. The weight came down to about the same as a solid poplar body, but the tone and sustain of solid rosewood wasn't lost in the process.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1423170754' post='2681853'] I believe that I'm right, that the bodymaterial of an electric bass doesn't have much baring on tone, but I can't guarantee it. [/quote]It can make a major difference, with guitar as well. The more dense the wood the brighter the tone, and the longer the sustain.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1423147694' post='2681419'] If one's sole goal is efficiency, you're right. For some folks, there are other criteria, though. Horses (and buggies..?) for courses..? [/quote]Horses are fine if you're an avid gardener and need the fertilizer. There's at least two more analogies that could be drawn between horses and eighteens, I'll let your imagination fill in the blanks.

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1423078291' post='2680488'] There was a reason why Jamaican Sound Systems 'back in the day' used 18" drivers - [/quote]Yes, there is. [i]They had to[/i], because of the short excursion drivers that were available 'back in the day'. The horse and buggy used to be the most efficient form of personal transportation as well. I don't yearn for one myself.

Electrically the result is identical. The only advantage to connecting the cabs indepently to the amp is that the current going to the second cab doesn't have to also go through the cord to the first. If your cords are of sufficient gauge that won't matter, but if they're undersized it might.

[quote name='monsterthompson' timestamp='1422990800' post='2679268'] i'd suspect a bigger driver often comes in a bigger enclosure, which alters the output you hear. the G3 Barefaced SC and SM use the same driver, yet the SC is in a bigger box and it goes lower and louder (based on Alex's claims and my observations as an owner of each cab). perhaps that is part of what people hear and attribute to the driver size. [/quote]The enclosure is just as, if not more, responsible for the low frequency extension and output than the driver. But where the driver itself is concerned there are over a dozen specs that determine both how low and how loud it will go. Cone size is not one of them.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1422972614' post='2678999'] True. But despite the "science", many bassists still insist that they can hear a difference when changing cone sizes! [/quote]To a great extent that's placebo effect. If you think that you'll hear a difference you will. No one is immune to it. The main difference that is really audible is the result of the one difference that will always be determined by driver size, and that's off-axis response. Even that will be different when you use two or more identical drivers compared to just one, or for that matter two compared to four, not to mention two placed vertically versus two placed horizontally. The value of knowing the science is that you can predict the outcome with any of the myriad of possible permutations with a very high degree of accuracy.

[quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1422042166' post='2668209']a respectable brand like TC Electronics hadn't taken the time to fit 50p's worth of acoustic damping in the cabinet. [/quote]50p here, 50p there, eventually you get enough for the CEO to take a week in Cannes. Can't blame him, Denmark in January is colder than Scotland. G-K pulled the same stunt a few years back with their Neo cabs, got outed on talkbass, and no less than Bob Gallien had the gall to say that they'd tested their new line with and without damping and bracing and that they sounded better without it. After a few people added damping and bracing, with the same result as yours, he wasn't heard from again. [i]But guess what happened a year or so later when they introduced the next version of those cabs. [/i]