Art

When I first came here I was too embarrassed to be 100% honest. I have been playing for over 30 years and this still evades me. This forum has been a breath of fresh air on an internet that is usually full of complete and utter vileness. I have been a poster and user of internet forums for many many years and I don't remember the last time I actually found some real compassion and help, this forum should be very proud of itself. I think I may well stick around, as I have lots of other musical talents that I know I can use to help others as I have been helped. A bit more about me, if you will indulge me. I've been playing over 30 years, in a very on and off way (I realise of course that this alone doesn't help me learn what I want to know). I have played in 2 pretty successful bands, one for 4 years and the other 6. None of those band members ever suspected that I knew nothing and people from all walks of life and throughout the entire 30 years (often including people I greatly respected) have commented on my bass playing, telling me how much they enjoyed it! (if only they knew huh @6feet7 ) I can play almost anything, especially given time to sit and work something out and that has been my entire bass career. I'll work something out rudimentary at the early stages when writing with the band and then go home and in my own time work something nice out. I'm so fed up of having to do this and this is why I want to move forward and LEARN where I can play given any chord progression at the time of writing. I so want to be naturally playing sexy fills, rather than having to work them out later, note by note. I wanted to quote several of you but my post is already leaning towards tldr territory, so I will just try and ask some more directions based on the advice given. It has been mentioned several times here and I have seen it online many times also (scotts bass lessons, talking bass.net etc) learn what the intervals 'sound' like. I cant understand this concept because in my mind its not helping me 'know' where I can play. I can't see a link between the two things (this is hard to articulate too apologies). I know what a 5th sounds like, I am 99% positive I can pick a major and minor 3rd and a 2nd 4th 6th and 7th are all pretty distinct also. Maybe I don't know these as well as I think I do but one thing is for sure. I cannot understand how this helps me? I don't mean to sound disingenuous to the advice, I KNOW 100% it's good advice as I see it and hear it often but as i say, I cant see how it solves my problems. Get a bass teacher: Unfortunately, I'm out of work atm with a serious back condition (thanks years of humping band gear :P) and simply can't afford this route. I wish I could because the right person would be able to help me I am sure. Thanks for your time here TKenrick. To elaborate, I started based on advice from Scotts Bass Lessons on the C major scale (I actually started with G Major - seemed to maked more sense to me) all over the neck. From different finger positions. Finger 1, 2 3 etc. This IS actually helping because the more major scales I learn, I am beginning to see the geometric patterns without thinking too much about them, this has taken (if im honest about practice time) 30 mins a day for around a month. I started to speak the 'intervals' to myself as I went (and based on the advice given here and around the internet) hear what they sound like. The thing I think this is doing beyond anything else is making me a faster player AND making me stamp out bad habits, such as turning my fingers into spaghetti trying to jump around the neck. I know you can all relate to that. So this practice time and repositioning of my hand to use correct fingers has been great for many reasons. BUT... I am still not learning what I want, applying it over major chords in the songs my band and I are writing still comes up with bum notes!! And this leads me onto one further thing... (how very Columbo of me) I am actually enjoying playing scales. Really, truthfully... Its (as mentioned above) making me a better player and despite hitting bum notes still I AM learning and moving forward. But its these bum notes I want to talk to you all about. They are coming about I am sure from these rules in music that BAFFLE me completely and one of the things that's keeping me from actually understanding the fret board while trying to be creative. The use of borrowed chords, the use of sus chords, the flattened 5th or 7th of a chord... Now let me just explain, I have an understanding of how these are used and why. But when I'm playing with my band members how do I know this is happening when even my band mates are just doing things because they 'sound' right. I know my guitarist knows no theory but he will throw in some beautiful sounding chords that none of us have a clue about. How do 'I' know what it is thats happening? How do I use the knowledge of 'shapes' and all my recently learned knowledge to play over this when I have no idea for example that the chord he is plying has a flattened 6th? I am getting to grips fully with the shapes of the major scale all over the neck, and all different keys. Haven't even STARTED on the minor scale yet, there goes another month. But what then? Do I then spend another month on the harminic monor, then another on the melodic, then another on the blues scale... and on and on. I really appreciate the advice you have all given, and I apologise for the length and waffley-ness (is that a word? lol) of this post but honestly I dont know where to turn for the answer thats right for me. I hear what your all saying 'in general' and thats to forget learning this way and learn songs and interval sounds etc. But I counter this with the fact that I 'have' learned hundreds of songs, played in many bands and tried to learn along the way, yet somehow this still evades me. I'm sorry, I'm speaking in circles now... I won't change it, it's my frustrations laid bare because I know your a decent bunch who will listen. Once again, I thank you for your advice and time. And if you read all of this post I think maybe you deserve a medal of some kind. I have much to digest much to think on... Now I'm going to make myself a full member of this forum and start to help out where I know I can... In the recording section. Art

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your time! It's nice to see you say 'you've been there' - that meant a lot because I've certainly never met anyone else in that position. (or maybe no one else who would admit it?) Over the years I've been playing I have learned hundreds of songs but that knowledge is still evading me. I have been waiting on that 'magical moment' for a very long time but it's almost like theres just something; even psychological, thats stopping that info from emerging and making sense to me. I look at the LIMITLESS possibilities of scales and chords and then add to that all the additional sus chords for example, the changes in music theory like the harmonic and melodic minor (just because it didnt work for the composers, so they changed it!!!) and my mind just get so confused and I wonder how I will ever untangle this web. I learn songs and challenge myself to 'name that key' and when I am POSITIVE I am right I look it up and I am very wrong! I wonder 'why', 'how' did I get that wrong... ie the song works over a constant 'a' note so that MUST be the root and the minor scale notes fit over it... it MUST be A minor!! Oh.. It's e minor! Rinse repeat. I just dont know what it is i'm not seeing, not grasping and I have no idea where to turn for the answers. I'm not a quitter, but I've never had to learn anything more complex in my entire life. Any other help would be appreciated, Thanks Art

Hello all, I joined this bass forum today in the hope that someone can help me. I've been playing for years but never learned any theory, until now. I'm trying to learn my scales, arpeggios, pentatonics etc... I am putting in HOURS every day and have been doing this now for a around 3 to 4 months. I am focusing on major and minor scales at the moment, and trying to 'see' the patterns all over the neck but I am seemingly learning nothing. I will endeavour to explain, it is hard to express succinctly. I am trying to understand the intervals, I am trying to name the notes as I play them, I am trying to learn the differing patterns all over the neck but 'understanding' is evading me. I understand how chords are made, I understand intervals, I understand keys and even modes to a degree but I am finding it so hard to 'see' the patterns needed when playing with others. I watch the two guitarists in our band for example and they just effortlessly move from chord to chord soloing and never playing a bum note... It seems that this 'seeing' of the intervals required to solo (or creatively bass fill) over changing chords is COMPLETELY evading my knowledge. I try to play along to online resources, like bass backing tracks and USE the knowledge I've gained but even though the patterns are there in my head, I am still hitting notes that obviously dont fit! Then a minor will hit (in real life or a backing track) that I haven't practised enough and poof, I'm lost completely and have to stick to root, fifth, and octave! 'Squares anyone?' What I'm frustrated with here is the hours and hours I'm putting in to learn something that almost all other musicians I know (and have ever met) seem to almost instinctively 'know'. They know where to play bass fills, almost flowingly naturally and guitarists as mentioned have this ability to just 'solo' without even knowing whether chords are minor or major. Our lead guitarist as a real life example here knows NOTHING of music theory but he can solo over anything. He doesn't know what intervals he's playing, he just somehow 'knows' where he can play... How is that knowledge gained? I've never been able to do this and I have to confess have been playing for years. Am I simply just not working hard enough at this? After years of 'playing' should I not just be able to absorb this knowledge easily? My apologies, this doesn't read very well but it's hard to explain my frustrations. What I want to be able to do ultimately, is be told what key a song is in and just 'know' where I can play to create decent bass fills that fit the song. I want to 'see' the intervals and shapes that almost everyone else can already see. Any advice would be very appreciated, thank you Art