Bassassin

Very interesting research, MEKer, but I'm a little concerned that you're looking for absolute answers where there aren't any to be found! What it's important to remember is that any errors, inconsistencies and seemingly random changes in design, production and naming of these instruments are probably very little to do with "Washburn". When manufacture was contracted out to Japan in the late 70s, it's very likely that Washburn did business through a Japanese intermediary trading company which would have taken responsibility for sourcing manufacture, promotion and global distribution, much like Fender did when they contracted Kanda Shokai to handle the business end of Fender Japan. Some of the dates you mention are of interest - the plain truss rod covers from 1978 - 82 (ish) seem consistent with those instruments probably manufactured by Yamaki, which often have wooden covers to match the headstock veneer. Also the lack of records from 1987 backwards is consistent with the history of the Matsumoku factory, which ceased guitar production in 1986 and closed down in '87. I've been trying to get my head around the tangled & confused history of Japanese guitar manufacture for a very long time, and have learned to accept all the contradictions and incosistencies with a degree of Oriental-wannabe stoicism! The confusion around Washburn models & manufacture is reflected across the history of most of the brands, factories and distributors of the era, and can make it hard to fathom the big picture from all the conflicting details! If I were researching the specific history of MIJ Washburn, I'd try & find out which Japanese trading company handled the manufacture of the instruments - if they're still going (and many of them still are) they might be able to give you useful information. Btw - what do you think of the Moridaira - built Washburn Wing copies? J.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1382963506' post='2258441'] Unfortunately there are two different types of Hondo II. A few are very nice indeed, but most are the worst kind of cheap far-eastern firewood. [/quote] Quite so. I had one of the "nice" ones - solid timber body, carved top, set neck, etc but most of them are nasty plywood Korean unpleasantness, from the era when Korean guitars were really not very good at all. Good choice with the Tokai Discreet - looks gorgeous in the pics & you can't go far wrong with Tokais. Jon.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1382994251' post='2258983'] Alright alright, less BikeChat and more BassChat. [/quote] OK, OK - or go [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/17518-so-who-rides-motorbikes-then/page__view__findpost__p__2258991"]here[/url] and rip as hard as you want! J.

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1382974293' post='2258636'] Ok so whats wrong with Harley's then ? "all American clown bike" whats all that about ? I ride & love my Harley,i used to ride sports bikes like a lunatic until one near fatality too many,i still like sports bikes i just don't want to ride one ever again. So it really pisses me off when "fast" bikers slag of anything that isn't built for speed. But its ok you are just joking eh [/quote] Wow. That's a whole load of assumptions about me right there. Apart from the joking bit. Aside from the agonising oversensitivity and defensiveness of their riders, I don't have anything against Harleys in particular or [s]clown bikes[/s] sorry, cruisers in general. Don't think I'd ever own a Harley but I like some of them - the XR was a serious lump of metal & some of the V Rods can look pretty cool if they're not overdone. Never ridden one though so I don't claim to have an informed opinion. I've had quite a few bikes but never had - or wanted - a "proper" sports bike, my current bike's a 955i Speed Triple. Theoretically it's pretty quick but the reality is that the wind blast over 80 mph conspires to either rip your arms out of their sockets or just blow you off the back. It does quite like bends though. J.

Thank you to everyone who's chipped in since my last response - your good wishes, welcomes and concern for my wellbeing are most sincerely appreciated - do you still get that :notworthy: smiley? It's interesting - after the sh!tstorm of the last few years, I can honestly say that I'm in a better place than I can remember being in many years. I'm here to tell you that the secret to a contented, positive and optimistic existence is an uncomplicated life. Anyway a couple of responses. Eric - I've never considered "JapCrap" to be a pejorative term, it's a leftover from a youth spent tear-arsing around on Suzukis and Yamahas and playing Aria Pros, Washburns & Ibanezes, and unfortunately it continues to amuse me! They weren't crap in the 80s and even many of the early plywood horrors are oddly collectable now. I'd have trouble dropping the nomenclature from my language - along with YankW@nk, KoreaDiarrhoea and of course BritSh!t. Speaking of which... pete.young - no, it most certainly isn't! My profile pic might be a bit of a giveaway, however, and I strongly suspect I might have attracted less derision with an All-American Clown Bike! J.

BassBus is spot on, that's exactly what it is - a cheap 70s Japanese or Korean starter bass, and unsurprisingly, nothing to do with Roland! Jon.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1382893676' post='2257657'] Welcome back Bassassin! In this forum, you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark. [/quote] Why thank you, Mr. Twit! It's good to see all the usual suspects still here after such a long time. It's like I never left! Jon.

Hi MEKer - sorry for not responding to this and any of your previous posts about vintage Washboards sooner, but I've been away from BC for some considerable time and have a bit of catching up to do. Like a transgender friend once remarked "I've been abroad - but I got better". Anyway, any new info about vintage basses & guitars of Japanese origin is always interesting and often useful - but frequently the result is only more confusion & apparent contradiction, and I fear that may well be the case here. My assertion that my bass is an SB-40 is not just conjecture, you see, I asked it and this is what it told me: According to the guys on the Matsumoku.org boards - many of whom have forgotten more than I ever knew - the "Vulture II" tag is kind of unofficial, and used to indicate this bass as a successor to the preceding symmetrical-bodied Vulture model. My bass is from 1982 (sn 820310) and is quite different in detail from the earlier models. Check out the Vulture II in this thread on the Mat forum: [url="http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8936"]http://www.matsumoku...php?f=29&t=8936[/url] Although basically the the same model there are some major differences, most notably the pickup positioning. Control & truss covers are made from wood veneer and the hardware is quite different. On my bass the control cover's black painted aluminium, and the hardware is very high quality - a massive Chushin Gakki bridge and Schaller M4S clone tuners. It's pretty much assumed in the Mat community that these early Washburns like the one in the link were actually made by Yamaki, not Matsumoku - in terms of construction, detailing & hardware they are often near-identical to Yamaki's Daion range. My first quality bass many years ago was a 1981 Washburn B20 Stage - it had identical hardware, covers, control and pickup layout to the V2 in the link. I'd say that was a Yamaki-manufactured example, and my current SB40, made the next year, is an early Matsumoku, possibly a transitional model between the 2 factories. Jon.

You don't see too many of these: Tokai Talbo, 2000-ish reissue, the only one I've ever seen (so in a moment of madness, I bought it ), weighs a ton, is insanely microphonic & squeals like a stabbed pig. So it hangs on the wall & gets the occasional polish and the only reason I haven't sold it is that I know I'll never see another. Sad, really! Jon.

[quote name='bluejail' timestamp='1380353998' post='2224084'] Hi Yesterday i started new topic ' Made in Japan' badged jazz bass copy in order to identify a jazz bass copy I bought recently from a pawnshop. Then i came across this topic which I think is the right place to put a link with pics in. If anybody knows what is it pls let me know Cheers [url="http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/bluejail/slideshow/Made%20in%20Japan%20jazz%20bass%20copy"]http://s1249.photobu...z%20bass%20copy[/url] [/quote] Musky - don't think it's a Mat - the body's ply and all the Mat J copies I can remember had veneered butcher-block or solid timber bodies. Apart from the 3-piece neck it's completely identical to the Columbus-brand J copies from the mid-70s (I've had several!) so I'd be inclined to think it came from the same factory as those. Regarding that neck, many of the "good" Japanese factories used this method, including Kasuga & Fujigen. Anecdotally bodies & necks often came from different manufacturers so I'd be inclined to think that might be the case with this one. To the OP - unfortunately "Made in Japan copy" is as accurate as it's possible to be with many unbranded basses - pretty much all of the brand names from that era were importer/exporter names & nothing to do with the factories that made them, so unless it's possible to work out which specific factory made the instrument, the best you can say is "70s MIJ Jazz copy".

On the whole I like what Mr Retrovibe does so I don't want to be uncharitable. However: shonky Vigier Passion knockoff with a grotesque tumour and the control cover from a nasty plywood 70s SG copy. Sorry. Jon.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1382720958' post='2255982'] you were appointed Captain Oriental in your absence. [/quote] [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1382718468' post='2255924'] I have no idea who you are... [/quote] Me neither... J.

Roto Swing Bass. Started using these back in the dark ages, impressed by the Entwistle/Geddy/Burnel etc endorsements. I put up with dead-out-of-the-pack A strings & a useable life of 2 rehearsals or half a gig for far too long before trying better (and usually cheaper) alternatives. These days it's either Elixirs or two-packs-for-a-tenner Ebay rubbish. Which invariably last longer & sound better than Rotosh!ts Jon.

Gentlemen - I genuinely do not know what to say. I am honestly deeply touched by this welcome - I guess it's hard to appreciate sometimes how meaningful friendships developed online can become. Thank you all. I don't want to talk too much about where I was in my life at the time I "disappeared" but a short explanation is deserved. Those who know more about me than the obsession with Oriental Offal will know I'd been dealing with some huge & emotionally debilitating family issues since October 2006. Those came to a head around mid-2011, when I effectively lost every battle I'd been fighting & had to come to terms with the reality that the most important relationship in my life (my daughter Anya) was over, with absolutely no going back. My instinct was to withdraw from everything - music, work, friendships, my "online life" and try to come to terms & heal. Looking back I think I can only thank my partner Karen for the fact I'm alive now - I don't think I'd have got through it, and arrived at the place I am now without her. Anyway, life is about looking forward and bugger the burned bridges. The last couple of years haven't all been sh*t - I have been quite motivated to indulge myself to cheer myself up on a regular basis and while I've had no bass GAS (up til now) I've spent too much money on other toys. I hope my new bike will amuse you when I get around to revealing it. And no, it ain't JapCrap. I'm still writing & recording, very occasionally gigging - and I have to say I'm delighted with the new music. I like to think it's what Todd Rundgren called "The Ever-Popular Tortured Artist Effect". The downside is that I'm finding myself less & less tolerant of mediocrity and that gives me concerns about the future of my band and the friendships therein. Oh well. I think I might have forgotten a thing or two about JapCrap over the last couple of years so do feel free to point & laugh. J.

I think I've just had an accident! Stunning collection - the R*ck copies ("Rickenbuggers" is the proper term ) are of particular interest to me, I have 3 myself. I'm not sure the Maya is a Maya, though - yours is a Matsumoku-built bass and as far as I'm aware, Maya had their own manufacturing facility & didn't outsource to Mat. Jon.

[quote name='Jonnyboy Rotten' timestamp='1382557854' post='2253725'] Holy necropost! But seriously did we actually get to the bottom of if they were an Ibanez copy or if they were the factory that made the SR for Ibanez who decided to do their own etc? Can any one shed any light? [/quote] No and no. Realistically the Ibby SRs are pretty much a copy of [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189847-tune-japanese-basses-anybody-know-much-about-them/"]Tune's Bass Maniac[/url] range which appeared in the mid/late 80s. It was a pretty influential design and quite a lot of early 90s stuff took cues from Tune, not just Ibanez. As fot the factory of manufacture, early Ibanez SRs ware made by Fujigen Gakki in Japan and then subsequently in factories all over the place. It's possible the same factory that made Vesters also made some SRs but the design's a coincidence, really. If I remember rightly Vester attracted Fender's attention not just because of the highly influenced logo but also because of their range of copyright-infringing, P, J, Tele & Strat clones. Vester Argus is still on my GAS list, if someone's got a cheap one. Jon.

But I'm rejoining the financially debilitating world that is BC. I have GAS cramps and my bank account's panicking already. Oh god. Anyone want to buy some rubbish old Japanese basses? J.

Not at all. I like a low-ish action & tend to dig in, so it's become an inevitable component of my sound! There's a big difference though between an enthusiastic clattering-off-frets sound and the choking & buzzing you get from a poor setup or if frets need dressing. Jon.

Seen a couple go through in the last 5 or 6 years, in fact it might well be the same one doing the rounds. Anyway, missed one that went for about £120 a few years ago. I think it looks great but I ain't paying no £275. Jon.

[quote name='squire5' post='1225597' date='May 9 2011, 09:35 PM']Just for the record,this bass sold for £255.[/quote] Incredible. There are some terrifyingly stupid people out there. J.

[quote name='Wil' post='1225318' date='May 9 2011, 05:20 PM']Teisco?[/quote] No - Teisco was Japanese, not Taiwanese. And some of them were half-decent, too. J.

"Terrible Old Kay Cheapo"? People pay good money for these now, dunno why. [i]edit:[/i] [url="http://www.guitar-museum.com/guitar-24600-1960-s-Kay-Bass-Guitar-Model-K-1B"]To be more specific...[/url] Jon.

[quote name='Delberthot' post='1224449' date='May 8 2011, 08:12 PM']That looks mighty like the Fernandes [url="http://www.fernandes.co.jp/others/catalog/1987/045.html"]JBR-45[/url][/quote] It does, doesn't it! It seems Fernandes have at different points been made by Kawai & Tokai, so that's probably a bit of sneaky factory re-badging going on there. J.

[quote name='hairyhaw' post='1224312' date='May 8 2011, 05:45 PM']Jon, where were the MIJ Fender's made? I've got a '94 MIJ Jazzmaster and it's pretty stunning in terms of quality.[/quote] I think we need a Jap Fender FAQ sticky for this one! MIJ Fenders & Squiers were made by Fujigen Gakki, from the earliest ones in 1982 up until 1996 when their contract expired & production was moved to Tokai & Dyna. Fujigen Fenders exclusively carry the MIJ label while Tokai & Dyna are CIJ. There are some pre-96 CIJs around, presumably because Fujigen alone couldn't meet production numbers at that time. I have read that Japanese Fenders are again being sourced from Fujigen but I don't know if that's confirmed. Anecdotally, Fujigen was chosen to make MIJ Fenders based on the replica-level quality of the Greco-branded Fender copies they produced - it's no coincidence that Fender Japan is operated by Kanda Shokai, who own the Greco brand. In fact it's also rumoured that the first production run of MIJ Fenders actually began production as Grecos! Kanda Shokai undertook to cease manufacture of Greco copies as a condition of getting the Fender contract, so it's quite possible that this is what happened to the final Greco production run. J.