Bassassin

[quote name='Doddy' post='1204221' date='Apr 18 2011, 10:10 PM']Ok.... Let me just say that I don't have a problem with anyone that doesn't read,especially if they can play.My only argument is when people say that it won't benefit them,because I honestly don't know anyone that would say that it hasn't been of some use to them in one way or another. I'm not talking about sight reading the Charlie Parker Omni, I'm talking about a basic understanding. If you decide that you don't want to do it,fine...but if you say it's because it won't be beneficial to you,I will beg to differ.[/quote] Seems to me you are talking about two different things - the ability to read notation isn't intrinsic to having a fundamental grasp of musical theory. Without that basic grasp - whether conscious or otherwise - I don't see how it's possible to function as a musician at all so in that respect I'm in complete agreement with you. Regarding reading though, I still struggle to think of a single occasion where being able to read a bass part from a score would have been of any benefit to me! Anyway, while this debate's been rumbling on, I was occupying myself actually playing my bass a bit - and discovered, quite unrelated to this discussion, that my drummer can actually read music. Wonder if I should learn to write percussion notation just to confuse him? Can't be that hard if drummers can do it... J.

[quote name='skej21' post='1203827' date='Apr 18 2011, 05:22 PM']When did I say that the method I mentioned was the only way? I simply highlighted a benefit. In direct response to your question. It won't be any more profound for you because you've already discovered the best way for you to learn (by ear). However, some players on here may not have found the best way for them to learn and may be visual learners and find reading a better option for them. You can't expect everyone to take the same approach. If I asked you to read instead of using your ear, you'd probably find it hard work and frustrating as it's not the right approach for you. Similarly, some players may find it equally frustrating using their ears instead of reading. I'm simply showing another perspective so that the players trying discover what is best for them, can know all the options. Sight reading is not a one-fix solution for everything, but sometimes it helps and sh!tting all over it because it's not for you is pretty selfish and immature. I thought the point of this forum is to encourage players to develop and improve through other's shared experiences?[/quote] And where did I even suggest, anywhere in any of the posts I have made throughout this tediously polarised discussion, that my opinions and experiences relate to anyone other than me? I rather thought I'd mercilessly bludgeoned the point that they do not. And would you like to point out exactly where I'm "sh!tting all over" anything in a "selfish and immature" way? Or did you resort to being abusive because you are either too lazy & arrogant to be bothered to read the posts you're attempting to attack, or just incapable of conducting a coherent and constructive debate? J.

[quote name='skej21' post='1203794' date='Apr 18 2011, 04:54 PM']You get to see another person's perspective on what they think a bass player should be playing and you often find stuff that influences your lines as a result, whether it's something good that you magpie away, or something that doesn't work and that you can avoid doing in the future.[/quote] Any time I listen to any piece of music not composed or arranged by me, or featuring my playing, I get to hear all this, with my ears. I have done this quite often over the time I've been playing bass - in fact every single time I have heard any piece of music which fulfills the above criteria - and all of it has had an influence, one way or the other, on how I play & what I play. How would the influence be more profound if I had read it from (as a previous poster eloquently put it) fly-sh!t, rather than simply listening? J.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1203678' date='Apr 18 2011, 03:12 PM']This is the part that I honestly do not understand the reasoning behind. Just because you aspire to,or do play in a band that doesn't require the ability does not mean that it would be no use to you. I don't know one musician that has said that the ability to read has not been of any use to them,whether they need the skill for their gigs or not. Everyone that learns will benefit in someway,even if it's only to be able to play the exercises that are written in the magazines.[/quote] I've tried to explain - even taking the perspective of someone who was, at one point, quite intent on learning the skill. Had I persisted, I don't see that the ability would have had a tangible effect on what I've done either in band situations (with people who were not readers) or during the time I've spent composing and recording music either solo or in a collaborative context. It would not have opened any otherwise missed opportunities to me, because I have never sought to work in a context where it would be necessary. I suppose there may be ways in which it might have been beneficial, although since I do not know what they are, therefore I do not miss them. I'll reiterate - it is entirely dependent on the individual player's circumstances and what they aim to achieve. This conversation is reminding me more & more of trying to explain to my daughter, when she was three or four, that everything in life is not black & white: "It's not right or wrong - just different". OK? J.

I've seen shonky lamination like that on a few Korean Fender copies from the 70s, never seen it on a Japanese copy & certainly not on a US Fender, CBS era or otherwise. I'd guess it's been stripped & refinished. Jon.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1203477' date='Apr 18 2011, 12:17 PM']It's all about communicating ideas with other musicians.[/quote] Assuming they too can read. I've been playing in bands for 30 years - originals and covers, and I've even been invited to do the occasional dep & studio session. I have worked with numerous exceptional & inspirational players, and none of them used notation or expected it of other players. It's a reasonable assumption that most of these people were not readers. Again, this is only my experience, I have never aspired to work as a professional session player, if I had my background and level of musical education would inevitably have been different - although I don't think my outlook on the subject would be. The requirement to read notation is entirely dependent upon an individual's musical situation & the direction of their aspiration, and this means inevitably there's a significant proportion for whom it is of no use or consequence. J.

Have you seen the [url="http://www.bachmusik.com/en/music-instruments/bass-guitars/model-bach-bjb-s"]BACH - branded Marcus clones[/url] from the Czech Republic? Jon

I can play guitar well enough to express my ideas, so I use it mostly as a compositional tool. I'm fairly competent but quite sloppy, so I'd never consider gigging with it. Jon.

Eight months later & I've still got too many. Anyone wanna buy some? Jon.

I have no problem with it existing, but really think the date stamp is a bit dubious. Even if it isn't the seller's intention (and that's a whopping big "if" IMO), it's inevitable these will end up wearing fakey stickers, being re-loused (or whatever that stupid non-word is) and being fobbed off as genuine 60s Fenders. Jon.

I guess some people just can't accept that it's OK to throw things away when they're ugly, broken and useless. Jon.

Well - I suppose the colour's quite close... J.

Always loved JG's playing with Kate Bush, and also his work on Fish's first solo effort. I've dabbled very little with fretless but it's fair to say he's a significant influence. Apropos of nothing, I have always assumed that Edinburgh punk nutters The Gin Goblins' name is a sort of tribute to the great man. Jon.

[quote name='karlfer' post='1202349' date='Apr 17 2011, 07:17 AM']Wa hay, mentally got the '70's bit right, but would never have guessed the Strat tomfoolery. Cheers Jon.[/quote] It's only because a lot of older MIJ Ps & Js had little Telecaster-type single-coil pups hidden under their ashtrays - this one obviously did originally, & it's a bit tricky to find a straight replacement if they die! J.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1202289' date='Apr 17 2011, 12:49 AM']Why are my responses irrelevant to you? Y'know I was a teenager that wanted to play in a band and gig aswell,but I still found time to study music aswell as play what I enjoyed. And while it may not be 'essential' to your specific interest it is an essential part of the language of music,which is what I said earlier.[/quote] I wonder if you actually read my first post? Maybe you should read it again because I think I made myself as clear as possible already & there seems little to be gained by repeating it. I suppose you can quibble over semantics as much as you please but such bickering aside, you would appear to have an entirely entrenched & unbending viewpoint whilst I do not. I don't require to be persuaded of anything, all I was doing was attempting to relate my personal experience, the fact I have no need to be able to read notation is relevant only to my situation and is not some kind of mantra or shining example I would wish others to follow. And the ability to read is either essential or it is not - since numerous musicians on every level appear to able to function perfectly adequately without having learned this skill it quite self-evidently is not essential. Now, any danger that we can drop the whole reading music thing? It's been done to death dozens of time before, isn't what this thread was supposed to be about, and is certainly not why I responded in the first place. J.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1202143' date='Apr 16 2011, 09:05 PM']I hear this excuse a lot (along with 'I don't need to know this stuff to play in my band'),and I don't buy it. Just because you like a particular type of music doesn't mean you should avoid an essential part of it's language. When I started playing I had to use my ear to learn the music that I was into and wanted to play,but I still learned how to associate the bass with the stave....and believe it or not,it actually helped with learning the music that I wanted to play and made it easier. Which is cool if you have the luxury of being able to spend time learning the tunes as a band. But,like I often say,there are many situations where this isn't an option.[/quote] "Excuse"? Hilarity at your presumptuousness (I'm being polite) aside, both of your responses are pretty much irrelevant to me - which was the point of my post. And I didn't "avoid" anything - I was a teenager with a short attention span & wanted to play in a band & get out gigging - reading would not have helped, and plainly it's been in no sense "essential". I'm not for a moment suggesting what has been absolutely fine for me would be to anyone else, which was, again, fundamental to the point of the post. J.

[quote name='karlfer' post='1202179' date='Apr 16 2011, 09:55 PM']80's CMI? [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190523169751&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url][/quote] 70s. It's had a Strat pickup bunged in it & someone's stuck a bit of plastic on the top to cover the 6 pole pieces. Quality. J.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1200820' date='Apr 15 2011, 03:19 PM']Why don't people say 'pain in the arse' anymore? Just wondering.[/quote] I don't know. But I wish they would because personally - and call me callous if you wish - I have very little concern about the discomfort of donkeys & mules, and their plight is of no real interest to me. Much like reading notation. I did start to teach myself a year or two after I started playing bass, because I thought I should - but quite quickly arrived at the conclusion that it wasn't going to make me better at playing the music I wanted to play, & I gradually lost interest. I did get to the point where I could laboriously work out a piece of written music note-by-note, but I've always had an aptitude for learning by ear, and for me that was the quickest route to playing what I wanted to play. On one level I sort of regret being a lazy little sod & not making myself get to sight-reading standard but I don't think it would have had much of an effect on what I've chosen to do musically over the years. On-topic (because Reading Music Is Good/Bad [i]isn't[/i] the topic), I've never knowingly met a guitarist who didn't have some idea of what they were doing - in fact I'd say all the guitarists I've played with have been very musically aware & competent. I hesitate to say "literate" because as far as I know, none of them have been readers/writers. As a composer (not "writer"!) all of my ideas come from noodling around on the guitar (or very occasionally, bass) until I hear something I like. I know all the major/minor chords but also play various weird made-up shapes that I have no idea of the names of, & more often than not it's this stuff that inspires or even becomes the basis of my compositions. I prefer to record complete arrangements to give to the band to learn/interpret - I think that way they get to hear what I hear rather than having to try & explain it verbally. Jon.

[quote name='tom1946' post='1202017' date='Apr 16 2011, 06:42 PM']How can you tell it's plywood? [/quote] That huge black overspray on the forearm contour is to hide the edges of the ply layers - there will be one the same on the belly carve on the back. Go & find a pic of a proper 'burst finish Fender, you'll see the burst just goes around the edges. Ply bodies (or sometimes veneered butcher-block) are really easy to spot once you notice this! J.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1201986' date='Apr 16 2011, 05:44 PM']Does anyone even agree with the 70's bit? never mind the MM bit.[/quote] Unlikely - most 70s P copies tend to have maple fretboards. And yes - that's almost certainly a plywood body, so I guess times must've been 'ard back then, & Leo just had to make do. Jon.

[quote name='Darkstrike' post='1201823' date='Apr 16 2011, 02:10 PM']Looking at them pics, to me they seem much more like the Shine Ricken-clones, 22 fret, that bridge and bridge pickup cover. Just without the Duncan pickups, and with the binding and Ricky headstock.[/quote] This is exactly what the current Rockinbetters are like: [url="http://www.twangguitars.com/rockinbetter-rg4003-bass-guitar-fireglow-1529-p.asp"]http://www.twangguitars.com/rockinbetter-r...glow-1529-p.asp[/url] Actually, didn't notice the Bass Collections have the extra fret until after I posted, so scrub the "authentic" bit of my first comment! Still really pretty though, I'm a total sucker for checked binding! J.

[quote name='Stacker' post='1201708' date='Apr 16 2011, 11:54 AM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-Collection-California-Deluxe-Bass-Guitar-CHEEKY-/380327034476?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item588d41fe6c"]Faker[/url] Apart from the pups, it's the closest Rick-resembling contemporary faker I've seen. John Hall will be wetting hisself when he see this![/quote] Most authentic & prettiest modern copy yet, certainly this version with the checker binding anyway. These did come up a month or so ago (prob. in the Rickenfakers Ebay thread) and from what I can see they are the same as the most recent iteration of the Rockinbetter wannabe, with the exception of the aforementioned binding on this one. And the 250 or so extra quid it'll cost you. They're on the Bass Centre site with even more tongue-swallowingly mental prices: [url="http://www.basscentre.com/bass-collection/page/2/"]http://www.basscentre.com/bass-collection/page/2/[/url] Big pic of the checker-bound one: [url="http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r437/gtrguitars/bass-cal-dlx-body-ebay.jpg"]http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r437/gt...x-body-ebay.jpg[/url] Jon.

[quote name='Paul S' post='1200372' date='Apr 15 2011, 10:23 AM']A tune and three quarters, even. I like it a lot. How do you get that growl on the bass - is it the bass itself, the amp, an effect, your fingers, or all of the above?[/quote] Thanks Paul - appreciate it! The tone's pretty much a combination of everything you mention - the bass here is an 80s Washburn SB40 with passive P/J pups, with the J rolled off a bit. That goes into my standard Growly Rock Tone patch on a Korg AX3000B - which is a bit of drive, a bit of compression and slightly boosted upper mids, if I remember rightly. After that it's a GK700RB-II 1x15 combo and a Hartke 2.5XL cab, EQ is pretty much flat at the moment but the entire rig has a predisposition to being growly & raucous anyway! This song's one of the few I play with a pick, mostly because of the open-D drone / counter-melody bits on the softer parts, and quite a bit of palm-muted chuggy unison riff stuff elsewhere. If you like the song, there's a rather nice studio version on our [url="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Maya29/190452804313584"]Facebook page[/url] - it's on the Band Profile section, right at the bottom of the song list. J.

Excellent new topic, good to see some pics of your Birchenbacker - and as a Damned fan from way back, I heartily approve of your new band's name! Jon.

[quote name='FlatEric' post='1200228' date='Apr 15 2011, 08:10 AM']The man, himself - live! Like it. Aside from the track, absolutely facinated by the mic stand. . . . . how is that done? Answers on a postcard. [/quote] It's a lightsabre. So the band members don't forget who's boss. J.