Bassassin

[quote name='LeftyJ' post='1008976' date='Nov 1 2010, 08:44 PM']That is by far the highest price I've ever seen a Musician sell for, even for a lefty! I bought both my lefty MC924's for 400 euros last year.[/quote] Just checked the final price - Would I be right in thinking this is not going to a UK-based buyer? Jon.

[quote name='tino' post='1008749' date='Nov 1 2010, 05:25 PM']Im often most optimistic having veiwed my intention though a mistyoptic I have interest on the Ibby from Germany.The Electra is a beauty (one of 2 I have owned a while)the modules are commanding good money on there own stateside.. but wait to you see the Electra 335 I have with vine inlays to neck....Be on the Bay this time next week,exceptionally rare in the UK and more so in its amazing condition.[/quote] Very interested to see the vine 335 - the vine/carved LPs & SGs are Kasugas, near-identical to their own versions so obviously I'm wondering if the semi will be too. J.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='1008307' date='Nov 1 2010, 11:12 AM']I emailed Tokai UK to check out the veractiy of these claims. They gave me a clear answer. Rockinbetter is nothing to do with Tokai.[/quote] Thanks for finally clearing this up, Ross - it's good to get an answer from the horse's mouth as it were. And to be vindicated, of course. I suppose what's interesting now, is whether the person Johnston's dealing with and Tokai UK are the same... J.

Tino - I have to say you're dementedly but oddly endearingly optimistic with your prices! That aside - bloody hell man the Electra's stunning - I don't know how you can part with that, & while I doubt you'll get the BIN, you might get a bid or two... There really aren't many of these in the UK - I don't know if they were ever officially imported here, being a US domestic brand. Electras were actually made by a number of different factories so you might not strictly be accurate saying it's a Matsumoku - although having said that, I dunno who did make this one! Oli - that £75 EB-0 is an Avon - if you do decide to go for it, I have one of the metal pin-badges if you're interested. J.

You just know it's going to be full of Rush bores asking why they're not playing the UK and why they don't play Caress Of Steel in its entirety. And yes I am just jealous because I can't go! Jon.

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1007518' date='Oct 31 2010, 04:24 PM']Bassassin, if you want me to get any close-up pics of anything (like the pup) so you can have a good look, let me know. I've seen you're the go-to person about Japcrap (and apparently Korcrap ) stuff, so I don't mind uploading anything you'd be interested in seeing in better detail just for your own curiosity.[/quote] Cheers - wouldn't mind seeing the pickup in a bit more detail, but like I said it does look identical to the MIJ Maxons. Just curious whether it's a Korean copy or they actually used Jap parts. Btw - technical term's KoreaDiarrhoea. J.

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' post='1007537' date='Oct 31 2010, 04:38 PM']Question - at what point does "multi-laminate" become ply?[/quote] When it's not part of an Ebay sales pitch. FWIW despite being amid a self -imposed ban on projects and/or new basses, if the guy had been willing to post, I would have been all over this for 100-odd quid. But then again, he'd have got a lot more than £106 for it. J

Mid 70s Hondo, made in Korea at the Samick factory. Body is almost certainly plywood, necks on these can actually be quite decent. Hardware (tuners particularly) doesn't tend to be up to much, full-size pots are a good sign - check if they have a "dp" logo - these are not bad, but will probably want a squish of switch cleaner. The pickup's interesting - it's a single-coil with 2 rows of pole pieces, quite common on Japanese basses of the era and I've seen them on MIK basses like yours but never had the chance of a close look to see if they're identical. Japanese ones are Maxons, and should have a logo in italic script embossed on the base plate. You might have to look closely to see it if it's there under the corrosion on the pickup base, or clean it a bit with some metal polish. These are actually really good pickups (well, the Jap ones are) and can be very high output for single-coil units. If you want to keep the original pup (and not have to route the body) it might be worth trying to repair the original scratchplate, or make a replacement yourself - you could get one made to accommodate that pup but it would probably cost more than the bass is worth. These - Hondos in general - don't shift for much on Ebay, a bass like this in good nick might make £70 or so. Oh - the kitchen drawer handle next to the pickup isn't original. Jon.

So I take it you're looking for American tat rather than a proper Japanese one? Jon.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1006812' date='Oct 30 2010, 11:24 PM']Hey, wait a minute! That's 1970's MIJ ply, not like the rubbish MIM ply you get these days. The only thing better than 70's MIJ ply is 60's MIA chipboard, though I hear that the new Korean MDF is pretty good. Going WAY off-topic for a second, what with that being a Rickenfaker an 'all, d'you think you could use the stereo output to get the two halves of the split-P and bi-amp them? I probably shouldn't have had that second double Jack Daniels ...[/quote] You're right there, Jack - this is made from the finest quality Korean ply, formed from driftwood pieces hand-picked from the banks of the Nakdong River. As any fule kno. J.

Ah - it was that one! Is it definitely a Hondo? If so the tuners are replacements & considerably better than the originals. Anyway that will be a reasonably cheap & easy fixer-upper, if you're not too precious about the authenticity of the parts you use - and assuming the neck/frets are all in good order. However - I concur with the prevailing opinion - string 'er up and find out what that sounds like, the opportunity will probably never present itself again. Do it for science! Jon.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1006362' date='Oct 30 2010, 03:23 PM']Two totally different factories making them and put sticking the same name on them ???[/quote] The Dillion doesn't actually say Rockinbetter, though - that's presumably just their name for it and nothing to do with the factory. And they're plainly from different sources - there are a lot of differences, none of which favour the Dillion. Tokai have used Korean factories since the 90s so it's possible the Dillion's from a factory that's also made Tokai brand guitars - but as far as I know there's never been any implication that their Rockinbetter's a Tokai! What's interesting is that apart from the headstock, the Dillion's identical to the Indie Rick copy. I tried one of these at Music Live about 5 years ago & have to say I was massively underwhelmed, considering the £500 price tag. I had a bit of a chat with the main guy from Indie at the same time - he reckoned changing the headstock shape was enough to keep RIC off their backs. Plainly that demonstrates a failure to grasp the nature of US trademark law - but the bottom line is that I think you're right. RIC is, despite its image & reputation, a small family-owned company and it's highly unlikely they have the resources to tackle trademark infringement outside the US - they barely have coherent distribution in Europe! It's probably not as important either - in the US they have to go after infringements if they want to retain ownership & exclusivity of their designs. It's not necessarily the same - or as important - elsewhere. I can understand there might be a number of issues with importing, but presumably the ProBass guy only brings them in a few at a time, so it must be possible to find a supplier who will deal in small quantities. J.

Thanks Noel, that's fascinating stuff & some very persuasive ideas. Don't suppose you have any catalogues or promo literature? I'd love to see some pics of the Matsuoka-made Shiros. Would you think a Matsuoka/Cimar connection had any credence? J.

Mr ProBass/Bassbadger imports his own line himself, as far as I know, and I'd be prepared to bet is doing the exact same thing with the Rockinbetters - which would imply they leave the factory badged like that. It also seems likely that his Probass & Retrovibes come from the same source, too. Dunno how naughty it is, apart from infringing RIC's (US) trademark - which anyone selling a Faker is technically doing, anyway. If you're looking at just distributing a line of 4001/4003 copies it might be worth trying to cut out going through an importer & do the same as him - it's actually something I've given some thought to. Wouldn't be Rick copies for me, though. J.

[quote name='noelk27' post='1005983' date='Oct 30 2010, 02:08 AM']There's a certain similarity between the headstock on this Kasuga and Shiro CS models. Am I right in thinking that Kasuga was also based in Nagoya, the same as Matsuoka?[/quote] Off the back of a Kasuga catalogue: [quote]Kasuga Musical Instruments Mfg. Co. Ltd 3-8 Amatsuka-cho, Nishi-ku, Nagoya, Japan (052 )531-6267[/quote] J.

This is interesting: [url="http://www.macbookscreen.co.uk/Rockinbetter.html"]http://www.macbookscreen.co.uk/Rockinbetter.html[/url] [url="http://www.rockinbetter.co.uk"]And so is where that Rockinbetter URL takes you![/url] Anyway - can't help too much with the Shine, having never seen one in the flesh - not sure if Shine have UK distribution at the moment, as there's nothing at all on the Shine.co.uk website. This is on the Korean site: [url="http://www.saein.co.kr/2007/bass/rk2000nt.php"]http://www.saein.co.kr/2007/bass/rk2000nt.php[/url] With the the strange headstock, extra frets & SD pups it's cosmetically a lot less accurate than the current Rockinbetter, but I have seen pics of these with the "proper" headstock shape too. The extra frets are down to the design of the bridge, which places the saddles where the string mute would be on a Rick tailpiece - on the Rockinbetter they've compensated for this by elongating the body so the bridge sits further back. Can't help thinking that must make a big difference to the sound, considering how much it affects the pickup placement relative to the bridge. J.

Just saw that myself & came here to post it. If I had a spare £900 it would be hard not to... Jon.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1005965' date='Oct 30 2010, 01:38 AM']Whether McCartney is a good bass player and whether the Beatles wrote 'good' songs is a debate so covered in tiretracks as to be virtually worthless. And, in the end, it just comes down to personal taste. The 'influence' thing is often seen as an issue of musicianship and absorption of licks, sounds, techniques. But there's so much more. * They're responsible for the idea that bands could - and [i]should [/i]- 'progress'. Before the Beatles, bands were expected to last for a couple of years or so. They'd put out pretty much the same stuff across their brief career. The fact the Beatles' fame ensured they lasted for longer required that they had to periodically re-invent themselves. Thank the Beatles for Metallica refusing to lay down and die. * The Beatles killed Tin Pan Alley. Today, everyone's a songwriter. Unfortunately. * They moved beyond the idea of the Pop album as a collection of singles and filler. They used innovative studio recording techniques to go beyond 'song capture' and into the realm of audio creativity. It is the Beatles fault that we have 96 track desks and infinite channel capacity on DAW's. To the extent that recording live to two-track is seen as wildly radical. * The Beatles acted as a bridgehead for the idea of Pop as Art. Without the Beatles, no psychedelia, no Floyd, Velvets, JAMC, Husker Du, no chinstroking rockers. Just big sh*t-eating smiles and waves to the audience. * By virtue of their ubiquity and marketability, the Beatles opened the door to Pop merchandising, tat, spin-offs, stalkers and conspiracy theories. * The Beatles absorbed and re-purposed significantly different musical forms - reggae, folk, psychedelia, blues, soul. In so doing they exposed musos and audiences alike to new sounds and textures. You could make a shaky case for the Beatles being indirectly responsible for the idea of sub-genres within pop music * Without the Beatles there would have been no 'British Invasion' and no US exposure for bands like The Stones, Animals, Yardbirds. Muddy Waters would have spent the rest of his life doing cash in hand odd jobs and Blues Rock would not have been invented, so no bent note Les Paul Marshall Stackery. * The irreverant, provocative intelligence of their public pronouncements raised the bar for musos everywhere. Simple anodyne comments like "Thanks to all our fans and my favourite colour is blue" gave way to arguments about spirituality, The Establishment, war and - er - Universal Love. Without the Beatles, no Bono, no Zappa and no Silddx. * Philip Norman makes a convincing case for The Beatles as a major component in changing attitudes to authority, morals, sex and drugs. He also blames the Beatles for today's solipsistic Entitlement culture. Without the Beatles, chavs wouldn't exist and everyone would know their place, according to Mr Norman. And he may be right. Now you could argue that lots of other people were beavering away putting this stuff together and you'd be correct. But the Beatles were the catalyst, the bridgehead and the force which propelled isolated, nascent practices and ideas into the mainstream. So you don't have to like the Beatles - I don't much - to at least tip your hat to their influence on the landscape we inhabit on a daily basis.[/quote] Wing Commander DelVar - requesting permission to copy /paste this the next time I'm on a non-musician forum & find myself embroiled in a dispute with some chundering dunderhead who insists the Beatles were "overrated", "pointless old people's music" and that "Oasis did it better". Like yourself & Mr Daz I am no fan, but it's impossible to overstate their importance & influence. Jon.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1005832' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:04 PM']Ok read what I said I said the Link is [b]they are from the same factory[/b]. Not that they are or ever were Tokai or made for tokai just that they come from the same factory as some Tokais. Add that to what else I said in the [b]PM's[/b] and you can see where people are adding the 2+2. Including the bass centre.[/quote] That sir, is a fair point, and well made. I apologise for my rampant conclusion-vaulting and will depart forthwith to stuff my gob with humble pie. Jon.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1005679' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:58 PM']I've never heard Jon being called "Wiki" before. Hey Jon, have you got a Wiki side?[/quote] Nice as pie, me. But I do appear to be a suppository of useless and frequently ill-researched & insupportable (mis)information. J.

Looks like the bass version of this piece of grot I nabbed at the car boot a couple of years back: [attachment=62517:front1.jpg] Generic catalogue crap guitar, no brand name or country of manufacture. Mine was late 60s / early 70s Korean, I'm inclined to think, actually played quite nicely & sounded OK too. Sold it for nearly £90, so there is a market for this sort of thing. Jon.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1005657' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:33 PM']Even if the Rockinbetters do come from a factory that also makes Tokai branded instruments that still doesn't make them Tokais. If Tokai wanted to release a 4001/4003 bass it would say Tokai on the TRC. I have the Tokai 2000 catalogue which shows amongst others Tokai branded versions of the 330 and 350 guitars so they have no problem making instruments the copy Rickenbacker's designs and putting the Tokai name on the TRC. However I have yet to see a 4001/4003 bass with Tokai on the TRC.[/quote] +1 to the above - Tokai is a fairly small manufacturer & brand (certainly compared to many other Japanese brands) and it's incredibly unlikely they own a Chinese factory, or have contracted a factory's entire output. Do a bit of searching on here and there are some very spurious and circumstantial connections between Tokai, Tokai copies (ie copies of Tokais!) and a Canadian brand called Dillion - who use, and presumably own the Rockinbetter name. I suspect the suggestion that Rockinbetters in the UK are Tokais is a bit of baseless (and probably quite dodgy) marketing opportunism on the behalf of the UK importer & resellers. J.

That £100 one was a serious bargain - wish I'd seen that! Jon.

[quote name='noelk27' post='1004656' date='Oct 29 2010, 01:47 AM']Matsuoka also had connections to Hoshino Gakki, manufacturing certain nylon and steel string guitars for the Ibanez and Tama brands, and given the locations of both organisations, in Nagoya, appear to have used some of the same parts suppliers (seen in the bridge assemblies and control knobs featured on Shiro SE models).[/quote] Is the bass in question from the SE range? As I said when this came up previously, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=7473&view=findpost&p=983921"]the bridge is identical to the one on my Cimar[/url] - which is from the era when the Cimar brand was controlled by Hoshino and was marketed as an Ibanez sub-brand. Early Cimar copies are very obviously not from Fujigen, and while the later original designs seem more consistent with Fujigen, there are some curious anomalies here & there. Could it be that Cimars were simply rebranded Matsuoka products? Have to admit Matsuoka is new to me, probably because I have little knowledge of Japanese acoustic guitar manufacture - but this adds an intriguing new level of confusion to the mix! J.