Bassassin

[quote name='arsenic' post='692912' date='Dec 24 2009, 12:49 PM']urrito(grabs coat and heads to Japcrap sub forum)[/quote] That's the problem - there isn't one! Which is why most discussions like this (and there are lots) are either random or take place in the JapCrap Spotting sticky on the Fleabay board. Is there enough demand for a specific JapCrap sub-forum, or at least a JapCrap Discussion sticky? J.

The Columbus will be pretty much the same age as the Angelica - the metal pin-badges usually indicate early 70s at the latest & they're very uncommon on Columbus instruments. So that would put both of them between '68 - '72 - basically because you didn't get copies much earlier than that. I don't think the two basses are related, other than by the fact they're medium-scale copies of the same instrument. Hardware is probably from the same source, but from experience I'd guess the Columbus will have a ply body construction, while the Angelica will be a butcher-block sandwich with front & back veneers. We can see that both necks are entirely different, both in construction & specification - the Angelica is strip mahogany whereas the Columbus is a more conventional single piece of mahogany. Additionally the Columbus is very narrow and has 21 frets, but does not have a zero-fret like the Angelica. Headstock shapes are very different (Columbus is much more accurate) so do not come from the same template. It's hard to tell without being able to see them side-by-side but I think the bodies would turn out to be pretty different also - as I said before the Angelica looks a bit better proportioned. What's interesting is that I think the Columbus might be a copy of a copy - spec & shape-wise it's a lot closer to the Italian-made Eko version: [url="http://www.fetishguitars.com/html/eko/varie/shaftesbury_tele%20bass.html"]http://www.fetishguitars.com/html/eko/vari...ele%20bass.html[/url] Here's a 1974 catalogue shot showing an unbranded Eko with the original ashtrays: [url="http://personal.inet.fi/surf/lorse/bellcatalogue/26.jpg"]http://personal.inet.fi/surf/lorse/bellcatalogue/26.jpg[/url] Anyway - this is now ridiculously off-topic - but we need to see Burrito's Antoria (I guarantee - it's not gonna be the same as either of these. Probably.) right now! Vintage JapCrap discussion sub-forum, anyone? J.

Pictures or it didn't happen. As they say in some quarters of the Interweb. J.

Cheers for the pics - really surprised it's a short-scale - usually the bodies on the 30" versions look huge - yours is nicely proportioned. So to speak. :brow: The neck & neckplate are unusual & might give a clue to its age & origin. JapCrap nerds call necks like that "strip mahogany" - basically a posh word for ply - and they're pretty common on 60s MIJ stuff, disappearing at the very start of the "copy era". Usually they're painted over, and I don't think I remember seeing one on a Fender copy before, never with a maple board. I'd say 72 is probably the latest it might be, and quite possibly a bit older - perhaps old stock, if you got it new? The 6-bolt neckplate seems to be associated with the early output of Moridaira, who were basically an acoustic manufacturer which jumped on the 70s copy bandwagon. Unfortunately that's not a 100% ID - there's so little verifiable history of old JapCrap that it's difficult to be certain about anything. As far as the Angelica name's concerned, if you understand it to be a Boosey & Hawkes brand then it probably is - all of the old UK 70s brands were importer/distributor trade names, and there were dozens of them in a very small market. This is why the actual Japanese brands - your Ibanezes, Arias, Kasugas, Morrises, Mayas etc are comparitively unusual on copy-era instruments, but the exact same instruments from the same factories all turn up with UK importer names. If it was mine I'd want to keep it original - rewind the pups & sort out the electrics, and some fret work (maybe just a level & crown, if you can get the relief out & there's enough metal left), because aesthetically you've done a great job of keeping looking good - right down to the ashtrays. If you were to put a different neck on it, you'd even have to move the bridge to compensate for the longer scale - & basically all you'd be keeping is the body wood once you did everything else. [quote]I would like to replace that with an all original '62 (year I was born) or a nice late '70's all natural/maple one, a bit like Jon's Japcraptasic one thats in the For Sale section. - but not until I have lots of money.[/quote] If you'd like my JapCrapTastic P to be going on with - it isn't lots of money! J.

[quote name='silddx' post='692286' date='Dec 23 2009, 01:01 PM']I love MIJ Squiers. MIJ Silver series are really nice too.[/quote] Plus teh one - I've had 2 MIJ Squier Ps (an SQ & an A, both 80s) and they were both superb. I've never owned - or had any wish to own - a Fender-badged bass, & if I did it would almost certainly be MIJ. The current VM & CV Squiers seem to be a return to the build standard, quality & value of the MIJs, and I have nagging GAS for a VM fretless. Jon.

Excellent decision. Jon.

[quote name='davetcollection' post='690081' date='Dec 20 2009, 07:44 PM']Thanks ever so much Jon. LOL I'm not sitting on a collector's piece then PMSL (Hey-Ho!) The LP copy is a 1984 Franconia - absoloutely rubbish, but I haven't got the heart to chuck it as my late Dad bought it for my 14th Birthday present! You're both right about the bridge! You know in all the time I've owned it, I've never noticed how out of alignment it is!!! LOL Thanks for the advice guys. Looks like I've got to put alot more to my Ricky now, never mind[/quote] Well - all 70s MIJ stuff is getting a bit collectable these days - even the more "humble" brands like Avon. If you like the way it plays & sounds, then use it! I had a Franconia Jazz copy a couple of years back - wasn't too bad, TBH, apart from weighing a ton & having a neck like a tree trunk. Ridiculously loud pups, if I remember. Arsenic - that Angelica's fascinating - never seen one the same before. It's 34" scale, by the looks. Any danger of more pics? Angelica's a pretty rare brand & I'd be intrigued to see if I can work out who made it. Anyway you're right about the hardware - identical stuff turns up on loads of instruments from many different factories, suggesting there were probably only a couple of suppliers of hardware & electronics. A lot of stuff came from Gotoh - even back then they were a pretty big player in the Japanese instrument industry. J.

That's an Avon - it should have a badge like this: [attachment=38665:avonjhead.jpg] Looks original to me - the bridge pup & surround are original - the pickups are probably Maxxons, and are the same as those used in early 70s MIJ Tele copies. Avon was never the most salubrious British JapCrap brand - but they weren't necessarily bad. I'm pretty sure these were made by Rokkomann in Kobe - I actually had what looks like an identical J copy branded Maya, which was Rokkomann's house brand: [attachment=38648:bodyf.jpg] [attachment=38649:headneckf.jpg] These same basses appear with other names too, including CMI, Jim Marshall's 1970s instrument brand. Obviously, the not-exactly-standard pickups are designed to be hidden under ashtrays, as is the 2-saddle bridge - very common on early MIJ copies, even on the supposedly more upmarket Antorias & Ibanezes. And talking of the bridge - this one does seem to have been aligned following an extended [i]sake[/i] - break! I think I'd feel inclined to bite the bullet & fill in the old holes & re-drill. & I'd probably stick a standard 4-saddle bridge on, while I was at it. I might have one of those old Avon badges kicking around in my spares draw, if you're interested... & by the way - what's the bolt neck LP copy? Another oldie - the big diamond inlay's making me think Cort, but if so it's a rebrand. Can't read that logo, though... Jon.

[quote name='tredders' post='689579' date='Dec 20 2009, 10:43 AM']Second experience: New member number 2 (again, mentioning no names) sends a PM saying "I'll take the bass - I saw your advert and joined up just to reply to you".[/quote] As the more observant reader might already know, I'm currently selling (or attempting to) a nice old MIJ P copy - I had a PM from a new member stating this exact same thing, only difference being that said new member claimed to be female. Needless to say, she didn't buy it. Odd coincidence, though. I've also had masses of interest in the bass, but so far no firm offers - I think it's a time-of-year thing in this instance. That said, pretty much everything I've sold on here has had its share of almost-sales - it doesn't wind me up at all, & just goes with the territory of the For Sale board being GAS Central, where everyone wants everything. Sales might not happen as quickly as one might prefer, but for me the bottom line is that I'm far happier selling here than EBay, which remains the only viable alternative. I would probably get a few quid more for some sales, but the whole experience of using ThiefBay as a seller has become so thoroughly unpleasant that I'd sooner avoid it where possible. Jon.

Can't imagine why someone would go out of their way to tempt litigation with such horribly mismatched ripoff styles. Didn't he try drawing it on a bit of paper first to see if it would work, before cobbling that malformed freak together? But anyway - I'm sure he'll be fine when John Hall finds out & lets slip the Dogs Of Law - [url="https://christianguitarworks.com/Home_Page.php"]he's got Jesus on his team[/url]. Jon.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='689399' date='Dec 19 2009, 09:28 PM']Thanks for the review Jon. You pretty much echoed my thoughts. Looks like your bass comes from the same batch as mine (SN LTN5F0002-08). I'm not entirely sure how the serial numbers work either but I'm guessing that TN5 means through neck 5-string and BN4 is bolt-on 4-string. 08 will be the year of manufacture. It remains to be seen whether each model is individually serialled meaning mine is the second fretless 5 string or if it's the second production Helix.[/quote]Mine's a neck-through too, so unless there's been a major cock-up on the serial sticker front, BN isn't bolt-neck. Makes sense that 08 would be the year & the 4-figure part the production sequence, so it's likely that one of the letters might be month of production - perhaps the F - since mine demonstrates that it clearly ain't for "fretless"! The matt black does suit the style well - but I particularly like the combination of the woody, stripy neck-through construction and the injection-moulded looking curvaceousness of the styling - that's what made me GAS after one in the first place. If anything I think they should have taken it further - perhaps rounding off the sharper corners of the body edges, and layered timber on the wings, exotic wood facings - a proper paradoxical Hippy Sandwich! It'd also look a little bit more like a £900 bass - and on that subject, I do realise it's the typical lazy importer's 1:1 dollar/pound conversion that's the problem with the very steep RRP. Anyway until such time as I get an hour or two to give it a good setup & then a proper knockabout with the band (if I can endure the jibes at having bought [i]yet another[/i] bass) that's pretty much it for my current appraisal. I will report back in due course, probably with some pics to accompany - although it does look exactly like yours, only with fewer strings & more frets... J.

[quote name='Marky L' post='689431' date='Dec 19 2009, 11:07 PM']I can't see anyone putting a 78 P on ebay starting at around £150.00 unless they had no idea about the bass. I am certainly aware of starting stuff low to get lots of bidders in, I do that with stuff I sell, but something like that I would certainly have a higher starting price. And why no strings? I guess that's not going to be good for the neck in the long run.[/quote] I'd do 99p, no reserve - regardless of how "valuable" the item might be. The possibility (no matter how improbable) of getting a ridiculous bargain is Ebay's biggest carrot. Jon.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='689308' date='Dec 19 2009, 07:01 PM']Well?[/quote] Not too bad, considering. Think I might be getting a cold but vitamin C supplements & wrapping up warm usually keep 'em at bay. Yourself? In other matters, I did start to compose a brief assessment of my initial impressions of the Lace Helix, on this very thread a few hours ago, but abandoned it in order to go & get some lunch. So I suppose it would be only reasonable to resume! It turned up yesterday, safe & sound and exactly as described. Apart from a bit of dust & a couple of absolutely miniscule lacquer chips on the back (the sort you can feel but can't really see) it's as new. I guess from the zeros & single figures in the serial number (LBN4F0005-08) it's an early model, although I'm not sure how the serials work. The first thing that struck me was the weight - or lack of it, compared to the leaden planks I usually play. As a gentleman of a certain age whose back is complaining more & more at the burdens it's expected to support, this is a Good Thing. For such a skinny, lightweight little bass, the neck's surprisingly chunky - not what I was expecting at all but not a bad thing, it's pleasantly substantial. Fretwork's pretty good quality, as is general finish - apart from a few scruffy areas here & there - as has been previously noted. It plays well enough as it is - the previous owner described himself as a beginner, so I'm guessing this is the out-of-the-box setup - but will need a little work to play the way I'd like. The nut slots are cut far too high, there's zero neck relief & the action's fairly high, possibly to compensate for that. Add all this to a pretty hefty set of strings, and it plays cleanly but is quite hard work compared to what I'm used to. So more on playability once I've had it on The Slab. So anyway, I then took it downstairs, hung it on a strap, plugged it in & cranked it up. Then I cranked it up some more, and then a little bit more, just for luck. I found I could just about hear it then. Yep - it's pretty gutless, running it straight into the amp, I had to double my input & output gains to get a similar volume level to a conventional passive P or J setup. Just as well it sounds quite nice, then. It's very clear - "detailed" & "HiFi" are the words a BGM reviewer might use, very solid & well-defined low end, & despite needing to pump up the volume in order to actually hear it, there's little hiss, hum or background noise in evidence. Should record well. I then stuck it through my Korg multi FX & ran through the patches I frequently use. This made a massive difference to the output level - much more so than with an "ordinary" bass, and the Helix still sounded nice. Problem is, I don't want "nice". I like an aggressive, growly & slightly overdriven tone, which is what I use effects to accentuate - but the Helix just sounded polite! OK - I think part of this is to do with the setup - I use a pretty heavy-handed r/h technique, usually playing closer to the neck than the bridge pup, add this to a lowish action & much of "my sound" is attributable to strings clattering off the frets - and with the way Lacey's currently set up, that ain't happening. So again, more on this once I've addressed setup issues. I did have to spend a little while fiddling with strap length to get the bass to feel comfortable. Neck dive wasn't really a problem, using a wide, suede-backed strap, but finding a height where my right forearm felt like it was in the proper place was a slight annoyance. I've ended up with the bass slightly higher than I would usually have it - and as a consequence, my right wrist a little more bent. Not too sure about this... I'm happy with what I paid for this bass - but the UK RRP for this is £899. I can see & think of absolutely nothing about this that could possibly justify a nine hundred quid price tag. It's made in China, hardware is decent unbranded budget stuff, apart from the magic voodoo pickups, electronics are bog-standard passive V/V/T, timber is decent but not jaw-dropping, and standard of finish is the good side of average, all things considered. £900 would be a f*ck of a lot to pay for this. It's very much early days - I need to give it a decent fettling & have at least a good rehearsal or two with it before I can give a verdict - but at this stage I'm by no means sure it's a keeper. Except, it looks [i]amazing[/i]... J.

[quote name='Prosebass' post='688638' date='Dec 18 2009, 07:06 PM']I've got my eye on this one as I will be a few miles from Wedmore in a week or so, looks interesting or would do with a nice deep red stain ![/quote] Hope you get it - I think it should scrub up nice. J.

Far from it - Thunders are common enough to be pretty cheap to start with - & black ones are usually a lot less popular than the natural finishes. There's no reason to pay more than £150 for any Westy Thunder 1, IMO. This isn't original anyway - someone's fitted a kill switch - and it looks like there's something weird going on with the fingerboard. It's presumably factory fretless - no dots - but there are visible dark lines, like someone's tried to score fret positions onto the board. Don't like the look of it at all. J.

Hi Geoff- if you split the J I might well be interested in neck & bridge. Jon.

...And that's all I know! Can't beat vintage JapCrap at a rock-bottom bargain price - & it's good that there's still a few to be had. Jon.