Bassassin

Jack might have a point, though. It could be argued that Fender make a lot of bad copies of their own instruments. Jon.

I find myself surprised at actually liking the Zender sig. However, no Fortress Flashback reissue means they can sod off. Jon.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='376164' date='Jan 10 2009, 02:19 PM']Looks like the Bassassination attempt only burnt off its frets and made it more hideous: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KAY-ELECTRIC-BASS-GUITAR_W0QQitemZ270328471307QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item270328471307&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318"]M'Kay[/url][/quote] Quick, shut the window - the light's attracting them! :ph34r: J.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='375316' date='Jan 9 2009, 04:09 PM']Never even heard of Grant ... were they any good?[/quote] Depends on the Grant! My first bass was a Grant - and it was awful. However Grant was just another UK importer brand (owned by a music shop in Glasgow, it seems) and they will have sold a fairly broad range like most brands. I think the Grantson brand was probably from the same importer: [attachment=18437:headfs.jpg] And it's likely they changed their logo/brand etc when they realised that certain US companies might have issues about similarities to certain trademarks... My bass wasn't the same as either of these two - although if you imagine a Jazz-ish take on the second one you'll get the general idea - and I'm confident it could have been made somewhat more playable if I'd had a clue about setup back then. I do like that Telebass type one, I have to say. Shame its covers & thumbrest are long gone. J.

I think Ebay will eventually be superseded by something else (and no, I don't know what!) because it seems to have a plan to force out private sellers & turn itself into a shopping portal. It's already offering all sorts of freebies in the US to encourage businesses, while making it more & more expensive & restrictive for individuals. Unfortunately when it does, we can expect any company that steps into its place to start where Ebay left off, with high charges & unreasonable restrictions, and we'll accept it because we're used to it. A bit like governments, really. J.

I've had a listing pulled for saying it was advertised elsewhere, amongst numerous other spurious reasons. I despise the way Ebay behave as though they're doing you a favour by allowing you to buy their service. Anyway, on topic, the guy may have pulled the auction near the end because it wasn't meeting his expectations. I remember a guy doing that with a nice JapCrap Cimar that quite a few people on here (or it might have been the old BW) were watching & bidding on. Naturally he got a modicum of (well deserved) abuse on here - and it turns out he'd been lurking, so he signed up especially to insult everyone who'd wanted to buy his bass. Ebay, and its inhabitants, really can be sh!t. Jon.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='374201' date='Jan 8 2009, 04:44 PM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kay-bass-guitar-like-Rickenbacker-sunburst_W0QQitemZ270327637106QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item270327637106&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318"]Kay[/url][/quote] J.

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='372415' date='Jan 6 2009, 08:52 PM']Why are they such a paranoid bunch? How many strat/Tele/Les Paul/P-bass/Jazz-bass/PRS copy body/neck/headstock shapes are out there in legitimate guitar building businesses without the original owners getting all uptight about this homage to a great design classic?[/quote] Apparently, it seems Rickenbacker legally protected & registered their designs while Fender & Gibson etc did not. It appears that US trademark law requires the owner of a trademark - in this instance RIC's designs - to actively pursue & challenge any & every visible incidence of infringement - from mass-produced Chinese knockoffs, to 35 year-old Jap copies, to (theoretically!) a guy knocking one up in his shed! If they don't, they lose the right to exclusively use the designs, which pass into the public domain. Fender & Gibson failed to do this, (with the exception of Gibson's "open book" headstock shape, which was the basis of the whole 70s "lawsuit" thing) and therefore anyone can make a Fender or Gibson copy with impunity. This is the reason why Fender & Gibson started licensing their designs for production outside the US & introduced budget ranges - it was the only way they could compete with the copy/replica market, & it's debatable whether either company would still exist had they not. RIC has managed to evade the copyists (probably helped by the fact Ricks have never been anything like as popular) and remains a tiny, family-owned business, with no intention of outsourcing/expanding, and a commitment to staying that way without compromising their product. Which means that while their antics may be an irritation to Jap copy enthusiasts (like me) & other people who'd like a Rick but can't afford a real one, it seems it's a necessity for RIC if they wish to continue in their current form. In real terms you don't have anything to worry about - about all RIC can do is pull Ebay listings, I don't think they can take legal action outside the US. There are quite a few Rick copies in current & ongoing production - most notably the John Birch RB 4001 which has been around since the early 1970s and is still available new today. Jon.

Well, I'm not suggesting there aren't crazy bargs to be had - but they're few & far between & usually the seller doesn't appreciate that they're perhaps underselling their item a little. I've had a few g*it*rs off the Bay for car boot prices - usually very old & tatty JapCrap copies that take a bit of renovation (not to mention flattering photography & hard-sell copy! ) before they realise their true "potential". It's not an exact science & ultimately you really can't tell what will get low attention & what will go mental - that El Maya Rick copy was a perfect example - the seller spelled the name wrong, massively reducing its searchability, I put on a low early bid (basically to stop him correcting his error), & there was every potential likelihood it would get low traffic as a result. It sold for almost exactly 10 times my max bid. J.

[quote name='Musky' post='371540' date='Jan 6 2009, 12:10 AM']The name on the headstock has never been a problem for John Hall - he's trademarked all the Ricks distinctive features. However the clue to his legal rights lie in the name - TRADEmark. And of course you're creating this as a gift, so there's no trade involved .[/quote] Well, I'd recommend [b]not[/b] going on RickResource or the official Rick board looking for approval & compliments, like a lad who'd built himself a rather sexy 4005 copy did! He was told in no uncertain terms to smash it & burn it - a course of action soundly endorsed & recommended by Kommandant Hall himself, who was of the opinion it would inevitably end up being sold as a genuine Rickenbacker anyway. Jon.

Strange how few players are associated with such a high-profile instrument! A few more: Paul D'Amour, original Tool bassist Nicky Wire, Manics Chris Glen, SAHB etc Rob Trujillo recently turned up playing one & there's an ancient pic going round of John Deacon with a 4001. Jon.

Excellent - can't wait to see how this one turns out. And I'd go for Hipshot all the way, excellent quality bridges, far superior to the "proper" Rick unit - and probably about half the price if you import. You'll have to watch yourself though, Al - or you'll be getting "cease & desist" letters from Big Bad Johnny Hall dropping through your door... :ph34r: Jon.

Too late. Arse. Or for those easily offended or browsing at work, @r$€. Jon.

Hohner introduced their Professional range in the mid 80s - the B2/B2A licensed Steinberger copies first popped up in 1985, and as a result of the popularity of Status & other conventional-bodied headless designs, the Jack - basically a B2 with body wings - appeared about a year later. At this point, Hohners were made predominantly by Cort in Korea, and it's likely that's where most 80s Jacks were made. I wish I'd grabbed a Jack a couple of years back when they were going for under a ton, they're lovely basses. Our drummer's brother's got one, it's a stunner & he won't sell. Jon.

I bet someone on here will be able to tell you: [url="http://www.cortguitarsusa.com/phpBB3/index.php"]Cort Forum[/url] Jon.

Starting low always gets bidders on board because everyone [i]hopes[/i] they'll get a crazy bargain - conversely a high start price, or (pointless) undisclosed high reserve puts people off, & people tend to wait before getting involved because they don't want to push the price up. I suppose it's theoretically possible that you could end up selling a valuable instrument for a pittance - but I've never seen it happen & it's certainly never happened to me. Jon.

Lots of pics & info about JVs here: [url="http://www.21frets.com/"]http://www.21frets.com/[/url] It should be possible to work out what's original & what's not from the pics on the site. Lovely looking bass anyway. Jon.

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' post='368796' date='Jan 2 2009, 08:03 PM']I have a mate who has one of those - It's really not at all bad. Is the carved top sort of hollow sounding when you rap on it? His has gold hardware and an unfashionably brown figured finish. I thought the p/us were DiMarzio, but were rather microphonic. Jules[/quote] No it's not - 'cos it's a solid carved top, rather than the pressed ply archtops found on most 70s LP copies: Hardware on this is chrome & the pups (in chrome cases) are unbranded, so I think this just pre-dates the use of DiMarzios as standard. Apologies to the faint-hearted for the g*it*r pics. J.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368254' date='Jan 2 2009, 09:51 AM']Don't get me wrong Bassassin, I know how good some of the 80s Jap stuff was, especially makes like Burny, Ibanez and Greco (of which I have owned various guitars and basses) who did really good copies of the classic US guitars (in some cases better than the US). I know that these makes can command a relatively high price and in most cases are well worth it. However, there are some makes (Hondo being the prime example) which were utter gash back then, yet somehow people seem to think that now they are somehow great. If you're a collector, then fine, but if you're a player, then you can get much better quality instruments for the same price.[/quote] I wouldn't pay £650 - or even £400 - for a Rick copy. I'd be pushed to pay that for real one. However it's important to appreciate that quality isn't derived from a label - [i]ever[/i]. My £25 Hondo is a good-quality guitar, perhaps not "replica" standard but certainly the high-end of mid 70s JapCrap copies. I doubt I'll keep it, I'm not really a collector (junk-hoarder, maybe ) and I'd expect it to do quite well on Ebay - particularly to overseas bidders, with the current state of the quid. The brands you mention aren't makes at all in fact, just brands, and two of them, Greco & Burny, are predominantly Japanese home-market, where there's a much greater demand for "replica" level copies. In fact even Ibanez copies are pretty scarce in the UK - the market here was largely saturated with importer rebrands & the premium-priced Ibby copies were soundly undercut by often identical guitars on UK labels. Ibanez really started to penetrate the market here with their original designs from the late 70s onwards. I find it interesting to speculate that a lot of the instruments we dismissed as cheap unplayable trash back in the day (and I certainly did) were just poorly set-up & we didn't know any better. I have made a quid or two in the last few years by buying, scrubbing-up & selling on vintage JapCrap, and have found over & over again that all that's needed to make most of them playable is a bit of basic tweaking. Obviously there are exceptions, but you'll tend to find decent fret jobs & OK-quality hardware on most. It's incredibly common to find a dusty, rusty old guitar with zero fretwear - because the setup out of the box was dire, and it's been in the loft or the back of a cupboard for 30 years. It's not for me to say why people pay what they do for old instruments - some of which are unarguably poor quality - although I think many of them are buying a myth (and the prevailing Ebay myth is that every old Japanese guitar's an Ibanez - and Hondo were Japanese, so therefore - an Ibanez! ) and presumably many also consider them to be an investment. And considering the prices of these two old Rick copies - they might have a point. Jon.

[quote name='fretmeister' post='368504' date='Jan 2 2009, 02:52 PM']I'm not sure whether to be really impressed with that knowledge.... or really appalled!!! [/quote] It's a curse and a burden, knowing about things. Be thankful that loonies like me are rare, and we live in a lovely world run by people who know f@ck-all about anything and because of that, everything's great for everyone! J.

[quote name='Rowbee' post='368382' date='Jan 2 2009, 12:29 PM']Nothing wrong with what he was doing in my opinion. I don't think dancing around like Flea would have enhanced the performance.[/quote] Point. Duffy's band spent their time twitching about & posturing & looked a right shower of cocks as a result, playing such pedestrian music. J.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368145' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:25 PM']I think with the "Made In Japan" plate on the back it was made in the Matsumoko Factory in Japan. This is where the Westones and Aria guitars were made as well as Greco. Could well be an early Greco model.[/quote] How the living arse did I miss this one? Sorry WHUFC, that's not a Mat. They never used this style of neckplate. Also to continue hair-splitting, they only made [i]some[/i] Grecos - Fujigen Gakki made around half of the early 70s, and the majority of late 70s & early 80s Grecos. Since it's only a brand name, like most Jap "makes", other factories built them too, and as such if it doesn't say "Greco", it [b]can't[/b] be one. It's also not a Kay, by any stretch of the imagination. First of all, it doesn't say "Kay" on it - after it stopped being a US made brand, Kay became just a label, and they've been made all over the world, from Taiwan to Korea to the old East Germany. Funnily, I've never seen a Japanese one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Anyway, the sandwich-bodied KB24 was early 70s Taiwanese, later ply ones were probably Korean. So anyway, there are two clues to the origin of this bass. Clue one is the neckplate - this style, with the MIJ stamp on the lower half, appears on all confirmed pre-serial Fujigen instruments. Not all post '75 Fujigens were serialised so these plates were used on later instruments too. Serialised Fujigens have a date-decodable SN stamped in the middle of the plate. Several other manufacturers occasionally used this type of plate, including Chushin Gakki & Moridaira, probably because hardware like this was ordered in from outside suppliers and batches would doubtless vary. Clue no. 2 is the serial sticker, which is quite a lot like this: [attachment=17967:serialsticker.jpg] Which is on a Moridaira-built Hohner which I bought new in 1983 - my first grown-up g*it*r. I've seen these on other Moridairas, they appear to be sequential, so I'm 99.9% confident that this bass is a Mori, and built a little while before my old plank. Mine was old stock when I got it so was probably made in 1981/82, this bass is about 48,000 units younger than mine, presuming the numbering's sequential. It's really anyone's guess what that means, I really have no idea what the factory's output would have been. So Moridaira's not exactly the best-known Japanese manufacturer - in reality they were an acoustic builder who jumped on the copy bandwagon in the 70s. They generally seem to be medium/good quality - well-made but with a few corners cut here & there. As well as building MIJ Hohners they're known to have made some of the CMI-branded copies from the early/mid 70s, Lotus in the US, and also their own Morris house-brand. The electrics seemed to disappear in the 80s. They're still around now, like many surviving Japanese companies from the 70s largely involved in importing & distribution, but still have their Morris brand acoustics, some of which are still made in-house. Jon.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368131' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:09 PM']as far as I remember from the 80s all Hondo stuff was pony. I remember their strats appearing in the Freemans catalogue. The Hondos I played in the 80s were always crap - don't know why there is so much interest in them now. Once a crap bass, always a crap bass in my opinion.[/quote] Specifically the interest in this has been because it's a Rick copy - it's well-documented elsewhere how rare these are, and people will pay insane money for them. Considering a Japanese-made El Maya copy just sold for over £650, then maybe £400 for what's the low end of these isn't unrealistic. There's also a growing interest in 70s copy era stuff in general - it's becoming increasingly rare, and there's an appreciation of the quality of the higher end MIJ stuff, all of which pushes up prices in general. Most Hondos were utter junk - cheap Korean-made plywood beginner instruments, most of which will have ended up flung in a skip years ago. However there were better-quality Japanese-made versions - it seems that Hondo attempted to up their game in the late 70s/early 80s & started having guitars built by Matsumoku & Tokai. They used better-quality hardware too, & DiMarzio pups were fitted as standard. These were sold alongside the Samick-built Korean cheapies, but because of the brand reputation the "premium" models never really took off. This makes them very uncommon - and leads to the likes of me finding a rather lovely set-neck, carved top Hondo LP copy languishing at my local car boot, for £25. J.