Bassassin

I've had one or two... SQ serial MIJ Squier Precision, Ebay, £130. A-serial MIJ Squier Precision, Gumtree, £30. E-serial MIJ Squier Strat - £70, local car boot. Ibanez RS924 Roadster, 1983, absolutely mint, with original hard case - £90, Gumtree. 1961 Watkins Rapier 3 guitar - £6.50, local car boot. Antoria 2354B MIJ EB3 copy - £30, local car boot. Aria pro SB-Elite Black & Gold - trade for a bitsa Jazz bass that probably cost about £40 in parts. Westone Thunder 1 guitar - £5, local car boot. Westbury Track 2 bass - £50, Ebay. Westbury Standard guitar, £60, local charity shop. This isn't everything, by a long way - ten or so years ago I was making a living of sorts by finding bargains like these, tidying them up and selling them on - and in fairness many of them were serious projects when I got hold of them & required a lot of work to put right.

In part though that's the point I was making. A counterfeit is, by legal definition, an imitation item which is knowingly being passed off as genuine. None of the vintage or current copies pretended they were actual Rickenbackers, ergo they are not, and cannot be considered to be, counterfeit, regardless of infringing RIC's copyrights. I'm very familiar (as you know!) with the various grey areas in RIC's trademark situation but I expect their approach regarding actual legally-defined counterfeits involves other areas of law beyond the cease & desist letters that copy makers/sellers get.

Well, I have (which is where my understanding of RIC's position on all copies comes from) and I don't.

Point of order here - but an important one I think. I've not visited TB for a very long time so I haven't seen the threads, but legally a "counterfeit" is a very different thing to a copy. No vintage Rickenfaker was ever manufactured or retailed as a counterfeit, and neither were any of the recent branded copies like Rockinbetter or Retrovibe. The only counterfeiting I'm aware of is the Rickenbacker-logo'd trash available through AliBaba, Tradetang or similar. I'm unsure why TB would have removed discussions about Fakers from their site - RIC has no legal right to intervene or have any involvement in simply talking about these instruments. JH, and RIC in general's crusade against all copies, is their legal obligation under US law to be seen to challenge unauthorised use of their registered trade dress designs. If they don't, they lose the exclusive right to use these designs, in the way Fender & Gibson did in the 70s. From that perspective it's understandable they'd move to attempt to stop the sale of Fakers through BC & TB - regardless of how little weight legal threats - particularly outside of the US - would have. It's all about being seen to be doing something.

Apropos of nothing - apparently Mr Hall is, or at least was, at some point, a bass player. A very long time ago I had correspondence with him which started as hostile and borderline litigious (it stemmed from an innocent inquiry regarding Fakers, on the old Rickenbacker official forum), but actually ended up being disconcertingly cordial. He mentioned his own musical dabblings at some point, I can't remember why. Regardless, the sum total of his input regarding the design of the 4000 series basses amounts to absolutely sweet bugger-all.

Stuart Adamson. I was a massive fan and he was a huge influence on me as a musician & composer - to me he was an inspirational guitar player and an incredibly gifted songwriter. Also he was the only musician I'd call myself a fan of who I had the pleasure of meeting - a genuinely humble, friendly and sweet man who seemed very grounded. I had no idea he was as troubled as he must have been and his death was a huge shock.

I keep having inexplicable T-Bird GAS pangs, and that ain't helping at all. Oh, and it's blurple, obviously!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOX-FRETLESS-BASS-GUITAR/254212898342 Seller is oddly under the impression it's a Vox (AFAIK these were never sold badged Vox) and it's had some undisclosed mod/repair done to the headstock. 99.9% sure pickups will be DiMarzio Model P & Model J. Looks like a nice example of an increasingly scarce late-period Recanati classic, sensible £100 start so could be a bargain. Not for me as it's pick-up only & I need cheat lines on my fretlesses, but always had GAS for a BX7, or preferably the even more exotic-looking Camac rebrand for the German market... Bit of stuff about them for anyone who's curious.

I think it's an actual Schaller 3D on the Rick 5 - they've used Schaller tuners & hardware on a few models. That's one of the things that made me wonder if the roller saddle bridge on the new Cisneros was a collaborative design.

That's a bit unfair, @NancyJohnson - there were various different suggestions, many of which were exactly the sort of thing that Eastwood knock off make, and the Serek-alike was pretty much killed off on page 1: https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/328839-eastwood-custom-basschat-edition-bass/ I still like the idea, and in theory might be up for it - it's inevitably going to be hard to find a consensus though. Clearly one bassist's Nobbly Ned isn't going to be another's Hagstrom Coronado. Or Maton Ibis.

I'm fairly confident the round-end J pickups were used by different manufacturers, having owned 4 or 5 different basses fitted with these. Despite years of research the vintage MIJ community has found very little info on different electronics & hardware suppliers during the 70s / 80s era. We're pretty much limited to Nisshin Onpa (Maxon) and Goto/Gotoh for pickups - simply because these have brands marked on them. There's a vague assumption that Matsumoku wound their own pickups because many late Mat instruments have MMK-stamped pickups - but that's not exacty conclusive. Hardware's the same - we know Chushin & Gotoh made tuners, bridges & other fittings only because they put their brands on the parts. Chushin was also a major instrument manufacturer in its own right so it's possible they produced in-house electronics too. I think it's beyond doubt there were numerous other, smaller manufacturers of components, just as there were numerous instrument builders that are now gone with little or no record.

Black nylon 1mm Dunlops - they have a textured grip area (don't think I've ever dropped one mid-gig) and the flexible material provides more feel & expression than a rigid pick. Might just be my ears but I'd say the sound they produce seems a bit fuller & less brittle than tortex or other rigid materials.

They're the wrong way round to match full inlays. I quite like the design, shame they didn't bother to do anything about that hideous afterthought scratchplate as well while they were at it. In addition to being part of the pickup, the horseshoe, and the subsequent chrome cover serve the same purpose as the pickup covers on Precisions, Jazzes & various other basses that originate in the 50s/60s - it's a handrest. The original idea is that you'd pluck the strings with your thumb, with the side of your hand on the cover and your fingers on the "tug bar" beneath the strings. Obviously most manufacturers discontinued, or made such features optional as playing techniques evolved over the years. Most manufacturers...

I'm pretty confident it's a modified standard Fender shape. The "binding" is 99.9% likely some white paint.

Other than the weirdy triangular pickups in the new one? Did wonder if that was the final straw that drove JH to run away screaming.

Don't know. Have read the odd rumour - he's retired, he's quit, he's divorced from the (possibly former) Mrs Hall (they are/were co-owners) and is out of the door. Maybe some truth - a little revolution seems to be going on - intonatable bridges, 20th century truss rods. If there's suddenly a budget range of official Made In China Ricks, then that'll be a confirmed yes!

I assume the seller meant £195!

All Fakers, all the time! I do have a twin-rod neckthrough Matsumoku copy but it's always been borderline unplayable because of the dreaded banana-neck syndrome that these are susceptible to. Lovely looking bass but the epitome of a wall-hanger. My other two MIJs are a through-neck Shaftesbury (probably - no trc when I got it) and bolt-neck Kasuga, both of which have single standard rods and rock-solid necks, which have needed no adjustment in years. Very good point about replaceability though - do the post-4003 basses have this? I knew it was the case with the old style rods. Pickup positioning on the Cisneros is interesting, and more in keeping with most modern 2-pup basses. Wonder how it'll sound? Expect most players would remove at least one of the covers though. I really like the cut-down pickguard, I've always thought the standard shape looks like an afterthought and jars with the design of the rest of the bass.

Serious question Paul - how so? I never understood why they retained the twin rod system after phasing out those strips of bent mild steel they'd used in lieu of proper truss rods up until the 4003 was introduced. Clearly dual rods can be used to correct neck twist, but the opposite argument is that removing the massive amounts of timber necessary to accomodate them makes the neck inherently weaker and more flexible - and likely more prone to twisting & instability through unequal string tension. I've never owned a real Rick but I'd speculate that adjusting the truss rods - a basic job on other basses - becomes way more complex/hit & miss when you have to balance tension of rods against each other as well as the pull from the strings. To me the various non-standard changes on the Cisneros bass are a massive leap forwards for Rickenbacker - finally dragging them into the mid 20th century!

It does resemble a bitsa made from generic shop parts & cheapo hardware, with an over-ambitious relic 'n filth job. I think it's vile.

That's some sort of Holy Trinity, right there. Much as I love the styling & sound of the classic SBs, I don't get on with the parallel, wide-at-the-top necks, so the SB-Rs/Elites are the ones I'm drawn to. Don't think I've seen a 60, 80 & 150 together before - SB-R150s seem to be incredibly rare. I have a post-Matsumoku SB-ELT, basically the same as the SB-R80, but I still sort of hanker after a "real" one...

When I was starting out, if you were gigging it was either one of these or an HH VS 100w combo. I had the HH because the front panel lit up green. No other reason.

Still there & always worth a look if you're passing. That's where my No. 1 Jazz came from - 1980 CSL Japanese copy, best neck ever - £60.

Cheers for those - was looking at Druminator when you posted the second link, so went for both. A lot of drums for a paltry £14!

Dragging this back on-topic, and leaving aside stuff like the cool green inlays and nice minimal redesigned scratchplate - this is the interesting bit of this new Rick: Rickenbacker have threatened to produce a redesigned bridge/tailpiece for years - could this finally be it? The roller saddles seem to be the same principle as the Schaller 3D.