agedhorse

What doesn't make sense to me is that it doesn't seem to be national loyalty because I'm hearing that in Europe there doesn't seem to be any concern for where a product comes from as long as it's cheaper. This implies that there is no national loyalty... either to USA manufactured products or those manufactured in their home region.

Except that the Mesa Subway bass amps are targeted towards gigging players. There are a lot of them out on the road gigging night after night.

The D-800 is still a current product. I don't know why it's not there, but maybe because the container that contains those amps hasn't arrived yet.

Well, if they aren't an acceptable value for you, the obvious choice is not to buy them. That's fine, there are plenty of other good choices.

So for you, buying UK manufactured goods isn't important anymore? Are there any bass amps actually manufactured in the UK anymore (not just packaged from an off-shore supplier)? I'm simply explaining why our products cost what they do. I really don't care if our amps don't work for you, there are plenty of other more budget appropriate products to choose from. It really is a great time to be a bass player.

I'm not avoiding any issue, I read the comments as the products being too expensive in the EU/UK. We have never been a budget brand, nor have we ever pretended to be. The products are the same price there as here in the states unlike many other US brands which are often more expensive there than here. If it's too expensive for you, then USA built Mesa equipment is just not the right choice, that's fine. What about equipment that's actually built in the EU from major components sourced from the EU, or if that's more expensive is cost still the most important criteria? IMO, what the world doesn't quite grasp yet, is what happens when you absolutely need critical products and they CAN'T be purchased from overseas sources. That's what happens when manufacturing leaves currently "friendly regions" in the quest for lowest cost. Friendly regions change all the time, it's happened before it's happening now and is likely to happen again (and again, and again). This is why we should have all paid attention in history classes. I took a unique class in industrial history, studying manufacturing of critical components and equipment during wartime and the reconstruction of agriculture, infrastructure and manufacturing after war. It's a sobering subject, I would think those of you in the UK and EU would be both familiar with and sensitive to the risks of outsourcing in general. [edited for clarity and autocorrect gone wrong]

I would want to be sure there isn't an unidentified safety hazard, or damage that could cause an amp failure that could then damage your speakers. A qualified tech could do this, but if it was me, repairs of flooded gear just don't make sense as they tend to fail later on if it is able to be fixed at all. I don't repair flood damaged gear, there's no way I can ethically warranty such a unit because of all the hidden damage.

Sorry, I didn't see that the units were GBP and not Euros Doing the same calculations: Sweetwiter Subway D-350: $799 USD, no taxes included. Andertons Subway D-350: with the exchange rate being 1.25 dollars to the GBP we have 799 x 1.25 = 999 GBP but your pricing includes 20% (per section 65 of the VAT act) so subtracting out the VAT we get 999/1.25 = 799 USD So in reality, IMO, Gibson has remained extremely fair to our European customers by absorbing all of the costs of import taxes, customs and bonded warehouse fees and registrations themselves.

The D-350 is $800 here in the states, so it’s in reality less expensive in the EU when just the exchange rate and VAT are accounted for.

Costs have gone up for products built in the US, there’s no way around this fact. As a simple example, because the Euro is so strong the cost of ICEPower modules is higher in dollars. The only way to reduce costs is to use Chinese parts/materials and assemble in China which is not what we do. If low cost is the priority, there are plenty of other options out there. That has never been our business model.

Also, with the exchange rate being 1.08 euros to the dollar, it looks like the real cost in the EU is on par with the US due in part to the strong Euro.

Subtract 20% VAT and it’s pretty comparable to US costs. Remember that we have to add about 9% state sales tax (varies by state) to our prices. Then there’s shipping, duty, import fees and EU registration fees that US manufactured products get charged to get into Europe.

Current and voltage will be simultaneously at the maximum into a resistive load where the phase shift is zero degrees. Where phase shift gets tricky and particularly dangerous is where it’s leading (capacitive) which is difficult to compensate for. With highly reactive loads it’s possible to have the highest currents where the voltage is not the maximum. This has to be accounted for in VI protective limiters and SOA calculations for linear amps. For class D amps this is not as difficult.

VA is apparent power which is different than watts which is real power. Real power does work, apparent power x power factor = real power. Real power is the apparent power x the cosine of the phase angle. When the load is resistive, voltage and current are in phase and the cosine of zero degrees is 1, so VA = watts. Since a speaker or resistive plus reactive, both electrically as well as mechanically, the phase angle is generally mostly inductive and his the current lags the voltage. The cosine of this lagging phase shift is less than 1, therefore the real power is less than the apparent power. By how much depends on how reactive. This is all basic electrical engineering stuff, something every amplifier designer should know inside and out. It’s also something that a speaker designer should have at least a basic working knowledge of.

Good question, I don’t have these details but expect that they won’t be set up to sell amps for another month or so. They seem to be pretty overwhelmed with the opening itself and all the work associated with launching such an endeavor. I could be wrong however, but that’s my best guess from where I am sitting. This was just forwarded to me: https://www.guitarworld.com/news/gibson-garage-london-preview

This reinforces my earlier comment about nominal impedance for the discussion of power being close enough, for this LF driver, if you take the average between 40 Hz to 1kHz, it’s close enough to 1W for most purposes. For power purposes, the area under the curve method is the most convenient way to visualize this for most people. Amp designers however, need to be aware of the data in this plot because it affects the absolute current through the components for a given voltage and frequency. This affects how protection circuits work as well as the demands places on the active devices themselves.

Because it doesn't use an ICEPower power module. The ICEPower module has become the industry standard because of the higher performance and reliability compared to virtually everything else on the market. That's why it's capable of 400 watts into 8 ohms, 800 watts into 2 or 4 ohms.

They are plenty close enough parameter-wise to work well together, don't overthink it (in this case at least).

Yes, I understand. I was explaining why the simplification is made with regards to the audio output power. The PF of most SMPS used in the audio amps I work with is around .9, which makes watts and VA within ~10%. That's plenty close enough for audio work, nothing precision about audio.

A quick update - Boogie gear is in the UK and will be on display for the opening of the Gibson Garage in London this Saturday. Dealers throughout Europe will have Boogie products in their stores in April, be sure to let them know what models you would like to see. Also, for anyone that’s able to visit the garage, I would love to hear your impressions as I won’t be able to visit. Please message me or comment on this thread.

For audio output power, the VA term is simplified to watts because the amp is modeled as a close to ideal voltage source and for practical purposes it’s easy to measure RMS voltage, square it and divided by the nominal impedance (simplified to resistance) to calculate power.

So many players I have worked with (as a pro audio provider) over the years have passed. That’s one of the sad parts of a long and very busy career, lots of fabulous music, and I wouldn’t trade my job for anything.

You probably can’t hurt anything but there’s no guarantee.

I kind of doubt it. I don't know which pins are dropped as to how the adapter is wired. Since I can't find any docs on the original 7 pin wiring diagram, I would be just guessing and there's no need to guess wrong here. All I can find is this information on the 4 button footswitch and 5 pin DIN wiring:

There is one pin that's connected to circuit ground and 4 pins that are pull-down pins connected to the opto-isolators for each function. The footswitch circuit works by connecting each of the function pins to ground which will switch the function. A QUALIFIED tech will be able to identify the correct pins and not damage anything.