agedhorse

This is generally correct, gain is gain as far as gain before feedback is concerned.

For post-eq DI, that would be always after the preamp. For MOST pre eq-DI's it's before the gain stage. Of course there can be exceptions, but my experience it's about 95% give or take.

On most amps, this is unlikely to be much of an issue unless the gain is really low. Also, if you take the DI pre eq, most amps pick off the signal pre gain control, so this won't be an issue at all. This could only be an issue using a post eq DI out.

Probably not.

If you are hearing "fur" or distortion, then you are clipping something in the preamp. Turn the gain down a bit and you will be fine. Noise is independent of power amp topology or class. Designs (at least many) have gotten better in this regard.

It says the same thing about high impedance pickups running into low impedance inputs. Guitar/bass amps generally don't have low impedance inputs anyway - unless they have a line input which is typically only 20kohm or so. Both hi/lo level/sensitivity inputs on amps tend to be at least 500kohm (high impedance) or so, so there won't be a problem. Actually, this is only sometimes the case. Depending on the design, it's not uncommon for an active input to have a lower input impedance of say 50k while a passive input may have an input impedance of 1Meg. This is often the reason why many players view the active input as a "tone suck", not because of the lower sensitivity but because of the lower input impedance (especially an issue when using both with passive pickups).

Yes, the fans all in the Subway amps are MUCH quieter, almost silent.

Agreed. To this point, much effort was put into making the controls of the Subway line more intuitive.

The M-2000 is capable of a range of tones, but within the family of the BB and Titan (and the Buster/Bass 400 to a lesser extent). It's really an amp that you need to get to know personally, not an easy amp to get along with but if you do, it's hard to beat. Some of the tones, especially the overdriven tones, are fairly unique IMO.

The M-2000 was kind of its own animal, so many options that it's not really comparable IMO to any one amp. That's what made it desirable but is also what turned other players away from it.

I've done this on some past designs and it's become less and less asked for, especially on amps that have effects loops and where line level rack mounted effects are being used. Otherwise, a front input only covers 99% of these applications. For those rack mount tuners that do not have a front parallel output and/or do not have a rear panel input to take advantage of the rear panel tuner output provided by many amps, that's something that would be more useful for that specific need IMO.

That's a good question. The M-2000 is quite a unique amp and not very intuitive to use because of so many options for signal routing within the basic signal path. There is a lot of stuff going on, it was an expensive (actually very expensive) amp to build, it's difficult to work on and it's generally fairly expensive to repair (depending on what's wrong of course). If the M-2000 does what you want and fills your needs, than I would certainly recommend that you get some kind of estimate to see where you might stand on the cost. If it isn't your "must have" amp, there is certainly a market for such an amp as it does have its fan base. Some of these folks might be willing to buy it not working because if they want one, there are a very limited number that were built and are otherwise difficult to obtain. You will have to make this determination based on your own personal tastes, needs and circumstances.

Your amp is being built now!

If you go to our website, there is a tab for international service centers. If you search on "Europe", on the left side is a list that includes many pages of European service centers including quite a few in the U.K. This list is increasing every week. We have had several complaints about "only 4 service centers in all of Europe???" when looking at that landing page, without realizing that there are MANY additional pages of European service centers. Hope this helps.

To clarify, I never said anything about being idiotic. There are certainly common tonal themes across most of the bass amp models, going back 50 years. That's bound to be the case of course, given that the designers of those models were consistent over most of those years. The exceptions are (imo and ime) the Carbines, Big Block and Titan (which were very much a more modern take on bass amps, paralleling the rectifier series popularity), the Strategy/Prodigy (which focused on a tighter approach to bass amp overdrive while maintaining the aggressive voicings of the Carbines), and to a lesser extent the Walkabout (which was distinctly different in many ways). I was brought on board to bring more focus into the bass amp/speaker products without the distraction and workload of designing guitar products at the same time. My goal is to take the best, most popular elements of a particular amp family and combine these with new features, new approaches, refinements and to update the products so that they meet the needs and expectations of today's players. For players this doesn't work for, that's fine. There is no shortage of good used amps of all types (and at bargain prices too... a bonus to players that these amps appeal to).

There is a fair amount of truth to what is posted on his website. A couple of errors though: 1. The term music power, peak music power, peak to peak power were all used starting in the 1960's not the 1980's. This is the reason for the FTC (U.S. Federal Trade Commission) rules requiring standardized power rating testing for HOME audio (hi-fi) products. This does not apply to pro audio or audio products used in the musical instrument markets (which are a tiny fraction of the size of the domestic audio market) 2. The term "route" mean squared is actually ROOT mean squared, and is a mathematical approach to a specific type of average power that is independent of waveform shape.

The amps are exactly the same size. I don't know for sure, but it's possible that they used the basic chassis size with one and the size with knobs, switches, handles and feet on the other, but thanks for pointing this out as they should be identical.

Note that the control tapers are designed so that there is a smooth increase in volume throughout the entire rotation. many amps use a taper that makes most of the range of control happen in the first 50% of the control's rotation. To that casual observer, this makes an amp appear louder when comparing using knob position only. The downside to this is that the range of real world adjustment is not as wide or smooth acting.

Also, to clarify, a good part of the height of the chassis is due to the use of tubes in the design. How many tubes does the DG amp use, and might this affect the packaging options?

Al - I think you have some kind of misunderstanding regarding these products and comparison between the two. First of all, on the TT-800 each channel has its own eq because the eq circuits are VERY different nad in the case of the Boogie channel, is fundamental to the voicing and texture of that channel. A single eq, no matter how many bands, is a non-starter for us in a 2 channel, channel switching amp. On the WD-800, which is a single channel amp, there is a 2 band Baxandall bass-treble eq, a passive mid that is also part of the amp's inherent voicing, and also 3 bands of semi-parametric mid that is foot switchable. This is our take on eq that's appropriate to these products. Regarding rear panel features, I don't see things that both the TT-800 and WD-800 include, things like level, ground lift on the DI(s), nor a tuner out, full size aux input jack, USB(A) power port. The parts that we use are a little bit larger in order to capitalize on mechanical robustness. Making this layout smaller is a non-starter regarding player-friendliness. I don't follow your comparison on size. The WD-800 and TT--800 are the same size, a little larger than the Darkglass amp you mentioned. IF you wish to compare based on size, then either the D-800 or D-800+ would be about the same (or smaller). Your assumption about the differences between the TT and WD make it clear that you haven't played either. They are entirely different amps, different tone profiles, different texture profiles, different feature sets and are designed to appeal to different players. The number of tubes is relatively independent to this, the signal path for the Boogie channel uses 1 tube and the signal path for the Subway channel uses 1/2 of a tube, one tube is common to both channels. It's HOW the tubes are used that matter, no different than every other aspect of a design. May I suggest that you try the amps before making performance comparisons?

They are a little bigger because of the feature set... there was no practical way to make them smaller given the controls and especially the rear panel features.

To follow up to the many messages I have received from you guys (both here and on TB), I thought it might be helpful to provide the following information so that you are basing your comments and decisions on factual information. The warranty is now 5 years for amplifiers, 3 years for speakers, 1 year for pedal and accessory products, and 6 months for tubes. See the attached warranty documents that detail the conditions and the countries/regions included. As far as service centers, this is something that I receive questions about regularly and now I know why. When searching for service centers on the website locator, the service center flags that come up on the map only apply to that page of service centers. Be sure to look at all of the pages to left of the map as there are MANY more EU service centers than the first map might suggest. https://mesaboogie.com/support/locations.html?q=europe&t=repair I hope that this helps clear up any confusion, and you can always contact me directly if you encounter difficulties and I will put you in touch with the right folks. 2020-OneYearWarranty_FINAL_200715.pdf 2020-Warranty-FiveYear_FINAL_200715.pdf

I think I have a fairly well established reputation (both here and on TalkBass) for being open and honest on topics where I can be. I am posting this in response to several PM's and e-mails I have received over the past week from some of you, so rather than responding individually I am making the assumption that these are common questions to many of you even if you didn't PM me. International distribution is a VERY complicated thing. For example, I'm responsible for the technical and regulatory side of international safety and EMC compliance. I spend considerable time and effort (which translates to cost for the company) to sort through and follow the laws and rules governing each country (or in the case of the EU, the region). Even though there has been a lot of talk and efforts over the years about bringing all of these rules under a single unified umbrella, in practice that really hasn't happened. Coming up in December, there is an entirely new set of safety standards (UL/cUL/EN/IEC-62368) that all products imported into the EU must comply with. Initially it was promoted as being an easier, less time consuming and less expensive way to bring everybody together for safety compliance but in practice it has been the opposite. It has almost doubled the work for design/compliance engineers as well as the test labs themselves. Add to this the fact that many regions that initially signed onto the new standard and the agreed upon transition dates have begun to back away from their commitments and will require new products to be certified to the older (60065) standard. Since the two standards require different analysis and testing procedures, this means that now we need to maintain two costly certifications per product! All of the Subway amps, for example, are now fully dual certified to both the 60065 AND 62368 standards. Who pays for these costs? Ultimately the customer does. Maintaining customer support, service centers and service agents is another costly aspect to sales (where customer service is better than the bare minimum). This includes training technicians, providing service documentation, multi-language paperwork, and transporting/stocking of parts necessary for service and warehousing product for sale. I understand the frustration regarding distributors like Westside, but at the same time they have done a good job supporting the product. Every service tech that I have dealt with at Westside was in fact very good and well qualified. It's been part of the cost of providing customer support. With the changing of the way global is being done, we have shifted as well, though admittedly it took quite some time. Hopefully this will make our products more attractive to the rest of the world. There are bound to be some learning curve experiences, please bear with us as we take this step forward. Covid-19 has made this more difficult due to many of us (still) working remotely, but once I receive the information and links to service centers in the EU and UK, I will post this information. Warranties will continue on uninterrupted, region by region, since each region shares a different set of governing rules it's necessary to respect the rules and different requirements of each region. I hope this helps you understand the changes.

Yes, we have some very good service centers in the UK who have access to the necessary technical information and resources.

I don't have the specs on the transformer, this is probably better answered by the customer service folks as they have access to more info. than I do. I know that domestic transformers are not safety certified at 50hz as the domestic version testing program only looks at 60Hz operation. The export version (and 120V tap when present) on a universal market transformer will have adequate core area for 50Hz operation even on 120V. I know that response times for support are impacted by COVID-19, many of us are working remotely right now. I assume that this may be the case in the UK as well.