PaulWarning

I've just taken the plunge got an AKG perception off ebay for £65 used it for a couple of gigs, all good so far

don't ask me it's just took me the best part of a day to figure out the Jam's In the City

the best open mics are where you get a given time slot and a predetermined length of time beforehand, not many about but worth looking for, there's nothing worse than sitting there wondering when you'll get your turn and then some mate of the guy whose running walks in and gets straight on. BTW don't confuse jam nights with open mics they're usually not the same thing

I'm a regular at open mics, playing acoustic guitar and singing, my singing has improved no end since I started doing them, then my partner joined me on drums (just a snare, hi hat and crash) gives us a common interest (playing music at a pub ) we actually played our first festival at the weekend ( a very small unpaid festival) but neither of us would have got anywhere if it wasn't for open mics. The band I play bass in also got a gig after one we did, someone came up afterwards and asked if we did gigs, no I said but my band does. I don't really understand the hostility to open mics, they're good fun if you enjoy playing live and your playing is bound to improve.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1441297407' post='2857726'] Theory doesn't get in the way of creativity. Thinking does. Also how much of what the Beatles did was as a result of working with George Martin, who was classically trained ? [/quote]well certainly the orchestral scores were Martin, there is a story where Martin tried to stop them using 6th chords at the end of songs, because it sounded old fashioned

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1441294829' post='2857699'] I have come across the above way of thinking on previous occasions where people regard theory as [i]rules.[/i] IMO theory contains the building blocks for music and a way for people to communicate with each other. It is not the fault of theory itself, if people use or approach it in a different way to what it is intended for. The old saying..."a bad workman blames his tools.." springs to mind. [/quote]so, the theory is, if it sounds good it is good

one of the other problems with theory is it can get in the way of song writing, it can stop you putting a certain chord with another because it's 'wrong' but discordant can sound good, I may be wrong but did the Beatles ever have professional lessons? some of their chord structures would have been frowned upon and John Lydon's out of tune singing would have horrified some (probably still does) but it works. I play with a pick because of my bass playing influences do but I'll bet if I'd have lessons some teachers would have tried to stop me. BTW I'm not saying I wouldn't have been a better player with lessons or more precisely theory, but I do think the wrong way can produce interesting results

there's so much stuff on you tube I do wonder if they are a waste of money, I've never had a lesson and managed to play the stuff I want to play, Most people when they start just want to play something they like, lots of teachers (not all) kill the initial enthusiasm by trying to get too technical or give the pupils something to learn that they're not in to. When I started playing guitar a friend told my to tune it to the E chord and just barre the top three strings and move my finger up and down the neck, it got me hooked because I could get a tune out of it within 10 minutes, I passed this onto several people and they all went on to play properly, it kept their initial enthusiasm going

quite like 500 miles myself, I nearly always finish my open mic set with it, mind you that might be because it's the same 3 chords in the same order all the way through it, I can usually manage that on acoustic guitar without any major cock ups

I'll put up with most things if it gets the crowd going, if that doesn't float your boat maybe you should just rehearse and never do a gig, I would happily never do Nellie the Elephant but the crowd loves it, if they're pissed enough

I did this with a Carlsboro combo I had, I had to fit a jack socket in between the amp section and the speaker which cut off the amp when a jack plug was inserted, just to try it you could just cut the cable to the speaker and use a a plastic block connector to connect the amp to the speaker then join it back up again if you didn't like it [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-6-15-30-Amp-12-Way-Terminal-Block-Strip-Electrical-Wire-Connector-/131559451930"]http://www.ebay.co.u...r-/131559451930[/url]

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1440746401' post='2853407'] We've been having this discussion in one of my bands - trying to set a general rate to avoid the singer signing us up for no money gigs*. All of us have jobs so we're not in it for the money but fuel, PA and general upkeep of the tools cost us - we've settled on £250 if there's a house PA and £100 on top for use of ours, doesn't seem a lot but we realised quickly that small pubs can't stretch to that. If you're in a city you might find more places that can but the more rural you are the tougher it is. If we thought our local circuit could make £400 viable for them we'd be more than happy to do that! Towns around us seem to think £150 and a free pint each is their upper limit... * played a biker summer party last weekend. Someone from one of the invited MCCs asked us if we would do a party for them in Feb and asked the singer how much. £150 he trots out. As the gig is the on the north side of Manchester it's a decent trip for me - £150/5 = £30 each, most of that will go on fuel for me... Grrr [/quote]as far as I'm concerned this is the crux of the matter, how much the can the venue afford, we, as a band, don't want to see venues losing money by putting us on, but we don't want to be ripped off either, so we adjust our rate accordingly, we have been known to take less than the agreed price if it's been a quiet night, but we always discuss thing as a band before financial decisions are made

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1440662403' post='2852702'] Yes, and these are the ones you target to play ... I wouldn't bother about the rest tbh... if we are some sort of afterthought.. or rather the music is. One of my fave music pubs, the guy/LL is [b]always[/b] travelling to see bands..we have endless chats about music and he always says he doesn't see music the way I do, with regards what is good in a band etc....but he gets out there, he sees loads and altho I wouldn't book some of the acts he does, I respect he knows what he likes and sees and will book that band/act even though he knows they wont make much money...because he is a fan. I think that says it all... or rather, it gets no argument from me. (actually it does and I don't get his penchant for 3 piece blues rock bands with endless gtr widdle all night, but we laugh about it) I'll support the pub as much as poss, his pay rate is lowish, but you need guys like him... [/quote]this, if it wasn't for hobbyists like me playing for a lower fee a lot of venues would have to close down I'm not sure what the argument is here, should we pack it in if we're not full time, or should we charge what the full time musicians charge?

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440656623' post='2852656'] You would be surprised. There are some very dull forums where electricians talk about the size of twin and earth and electronics engineers talk about the characteristics of different diodes. It's possible to enjoy your work. In fact you spend a third of your life doing it, if you don't enjoy it you're almost certainly in the wrong job. [/quote]there's an awful lot of people who don't enjoy their work, and it's a good job otherwise unpleasant but vital jobs wouldn't get done http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2013/10/10/only-13-percent-of-people-worldwide-actually-like-going-to-work/ the thing behind a hobby is when you start to get fed up you can give it a rest for a while, not so with work

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440608619' post='2852397'] I think you have to take them on their merits. At a festival, you arrive with your bass in a gig bag, climb on stage, plug into the backline and play for 45mins. Then wander around the festival take in the atmos and have a few beers. For a NYE gig you have to turn up at a specified time hours before the punters, take an hour to set up, hang around until start time, play 3hours of music to 1am, an hour to pack down and then even if it's only 30mins away you'll not be in bed until 3am. The next day (a bank holiday) will not start until 10 or 11am. [/quote]exactly, nothing's black and white in this world

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1440606790' post='2852379'] So admission is £50 each for the punters, but you get in free if you play free. Are the bar staff working for free so that they can watch ? How about the security staff ? Is the bar owner turning over his profits ? If all of the bands are playing free, its a nice day out, but dont kid yourself your not being exploited. Free admission is not worth £50. if your playing you wouldnt be paying. However, If its a charity you believe in, fair play to you. [/quote]yeah, all the bands are playing free, it's that sort of festival, hippy ideals huh? but I think you'll find that at most festivals it's only the name bands that get paid the rest only usually get free tickets, certainly most of the ones I've got experience of, which most bands are ok with because of the (perceived) exposure they get, as for being exploited, I don't think so, I'm a pragmatist, they don't sell anymore tickets because unknown bands are playing it's the headliners that do that. If you're in a well known band good luck to you, but most people aren't

maybe I should add that there's is no way I would do I'd do a NYE gig for beer money, but, we are doing a NYE gig for less than some of the sums that have been mentioned on here, but more than our usually fee. We are also playing a festival this weekend for no fee, but we get free admission for the band members and wags, worth £50 for each band member for a 40 minute slot, which I'm happy with

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1440589692' post='2852165'] It isnt. People support football [i]teams[/i], usually their local town or pub or whatever. [/quote]don't people support bands as well? if you get enough support you make a lot of money at it, if you've just got a bit of local support you make a bit of money at it, if you've got no support you make nothing from it, or maybe I'm missing the point

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440584551' post='2852095'] I would argue that if you've been asked to play a NYEs gig, you are worth considerably more than free beer. [/quote]depends, if you're so bad, you emptied the pub you'd be overcharging them, and at that sort of fee for NYE that's probably all the pub will get

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440581835' post='2852066'] Because you should be compensated for your work. If people paid to watch Sunday morning players kick a ball about then they'd expect to get a slice of that as they are what the people have come to see. [/quote]but if you're a semi pro playing covers in a pub you get a payment, if you're good enough to draw a big crowd the pub will pay you more because you've justified the extra cost, if you're playing in an originals band, mid week to about 5 people you won't get anything, in other words you get paid what you're worth. I play in a punk covers band which I thoroughly enjoy, but to earn a living I would have to play in a, say, function band, all different styles, but I'm not good enough for that, so I don't expect to make a living from music

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1440580312' post='2852045'] Its not a market, your giving it away. Whats more, your paying for the privilege. You still have overheads. [/quote]it's the same with any hobby, it's unfortunate that you've chosen a career that other people enjoy doing, but as I stated you have to make sure you're good enough to do it professionally, for instance the guys who play football on a Sunday morning do it for free because they're not good enough to get paid for it, go up a notch and you get semi pros who need a day job to earn enough money to live on, why should the music industry be any different?

yeah I was anticipating that one, if someone wants to do your job for less either have to make sure you do it better to justify the money or find another job or lower your wage demands, it's called market forces

it all boils down to this, do you play for a living/the money or do you play for pleasure? I'm in the latter so money is of secondary importance to me, in other words I don't need the money, I don't think people should criticise me for it

just done this test [url="http://www.thelooploft.com/blogs/ryans-corner/38917697-can-you-keep-perfect-time-take-this-test-and-find-out"]http://www.thelooplo...st-and-find-out[/url] I play left handed and was better with my left hand than right hand, could this be why it's better to play the way that feels the most comfortable?

yep defiantly better with the space bar and my left hand,(I'm am cack handed) which may answer the question why can't left handed people play right handed, what difference does it make?