Stub Mandrel

34 minutes ago, StevieE said:

Ahh I didn't realise you were looking for a global solution, I'm out! 😁

Tbh I'd just read your OP and when you said "The biggest issue I have is poor fingering choices" the colour coding was the first thing that sprung to mind. I agree that it wouldn't be a universal solution. I don't think I've got enough inventiveness to problem solve at that level 😬

Hoist by my own petard!

My problem is that tab is often not laid out with sensible fingerings in the sense that unfeasible stretches or pointless changes of position are given:

Quote

G|----0---0---0-0-0-----------0---|--------------------------------|

D|--------------------2---0-------|5---5---------------------------|

A|--------------------------------|----------------2---3---4---5---|

E|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|

                                                                     

G|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|

D|----0---0-------0---0---0-------|--------------------------------|

A|--------------------------------|5---5---5-------5---5---4---3---|

E|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|

I have seen an example of a program that can automatically move fingerings to different locations. That could perhaps be used/adapted to automatically detect and eliminate silliness like in the example.

1 hour ago, StevieE said:

Would colour coding help as a start? If you assign a colour to each finger (e.g. Index=Red; Middle=Black; Ring=Green; Pinkie=Blue) and apply that to your tab charts, could that help to overcome the  fingering issue? Open strings would need a different colour obvo... 

Disclaimer, the colour's used in the example were chosen cos thats all I could find in the drawer.

An interesting idea. The bugbear is that not everyone uses the same fingerings.

2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Respectfully, I disagree; I think this topic HAS been discussed sensibly. Those putting counterarguments to TAB have been moderate and given good explanations as to why normal notation is able to do the job. So I think its a little unfair to label it unobjective.

Given the above, the conclusion might be drawn that others, who have a lot of experience and are able to share their wisdom with the OP, have suggested normal notation is better than tab, simply because it IS better. 

The topic, as set out in my original post has barely been addressed.

I wanted to start a discussion on Tab.

It's been hijacked into a discussion of why standard notation is better.

It's like telling a blind man who wants a better radio the advantages of colour television; but such is the way of the internet.

It's almost as if there is a conspiracy to keep tab from improving in case it becomes better... 😁

16 hours ago, Doddy said:

I've heard a lot of people say that they have never been asked to read on a gig. There is a reason for this. It's because you are not a reader, so nobody will call you for those types of gigs. You will only get offered reading gigs if you put yourself out there as someone who can read.

But as I never intend putting myself out there for that sort of gig, I have no use for sight reading.

18 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Yes you can (with notation), its just a little bit more involved. For example, if you see 4 notes on adjacent blobs or lines, you know its an arpeggio because there's a bunch of notes split by thirds......and you know the first note. Say for example you have no sharps or flats key signature, you know its probably either A minor or C major. If the first note is A, then you know that in that key (of A minor....) the 7 chord on the root is minor 7th - third is minor and the seventh is minor. Similarly (if you know your music well enough) you know the quality of all the other seventh chords B C D E F G. And similar to how you instantly/quickly recognise the "shape" of a 7th chord (no inversion), you can also quickly recognise the "shape" of the inversions of the chord too. 

Missed point alert.

I know how to do that I can recognise triads and sevenths. I just am pathologically incapable of working out the key (other than C/Am) or the root note other than by carefully working it out.

3 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

If you look like Jane Fonda in barbarella I will defo come see you play 

2 hours ago, dodge_bass said:

If you avoid learning any theory / developing your understanding of musical structures / language then you're restricting yourself

I did say that I have some theory, I also know how notation represents theory. My situation with notation is like someone with an understanding of English grammar faced with a coded message where all the letters have been substituted - able to see the structure of the message but having to manually decode most of the letters before they can get the sense of the message. So I can spot triads and sevenths, for example, but without working out the key and then identifying the root I can't say 'Ah yes that's Am7'.

Yes I know, it's just learning perhaps 21 locations and linking each one with a note. If it was that easy for me, don't you think I would have done it?

2 hours ago, FinnDave said:

Is that Disaster Area? Which one is Hotblack Desiato?

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I went to reading at 18, it was great, I was excited to be at a festival without my parents getting off with some girl. If that is what they are doing now, it seems like a good use of their time.

The potential for errors in parsing that sentence is not negligible. Possibly add a comma after 'parents'?

9 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

So either go or don't go, don't complain about the line up.  Nothing worse than being with a mate who keeps droning on about how poor the line up is this year...I speak from experience...

Bring back proper festival toilets, then no-one complains about the music.

47 minutes ago, la bam said:

Not sure if it means its class b, but this is from the official spec sheet:

Approvals: 
UL recognized, tested to conform to FCC/CE limits for Class B devices.

 

That's a different class B. Also note my bolded 'and' just using pulses alone does not make it 'digital'.

Quote

Digital Device. “An unintentional radiator (device or system) that generates and uses timing signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses (cycles) per second and uses digital techniques; inclusive of telephone equipment that uses digital techniques or any device or system that generates and uses radio frequency energy for the purpose of performing data processing functions such as electronics computations, operations, transformations, recording, filing, sorting, storage, retrieval, or transfer. A radio frequency device that is specifically subject to an emanation requirement in any other FCC Rule part or an intentional radiator subject to Subpart C of this part that contains a digital device is not subject to the standards for digital devices, provided the digital device is used only the enable operation of the radio frequency device and the digital device does not control additional functions or capabilities.”

Intentional radiator. “A device that intentionally generates and emits radio frequency energy by radiation or induction.”

Class A Digital Device. “A digital device that is marketed for use in a commercial,
industrial or business environment, exclusive of a device which is marketed for use by
the general public or is intended to be used in the home.”

Class B Digital Device. “A digital device that is marketed for use in a residential
environment notwithstanding use in commercial, business and industrial environments.
Examples of such devices included, but are not limited to, personal computers,
calculators, and similar electronics devices that are marketed for use by the general
public."

14 hours ago, subaudio said:

It might be a though to visit a specialist again to explain your bass playing symptoms so they can suggest the best technique or type of support?

I'm familiar with the symptoms and the cause, which is moving my wrist and lower forearm back and forth over an edge, whether of desk or bass it's the same effect. It's hard keeping the discipline to lift my wrist clear of the bass, especially with some of my instruments. Never an issue with the small body B2 or my acoustic (where my arm crosses nearer the elbow).

If a brace or pad of some sort 'spreads the load' like the gel pad for the mouse I am pretty sure the symptoms will go. Just using a big green elbow support on it seems to have helped yesterday so I'll use it again at tonight rehearsal. If I don't get the 'nerve son edge' feeling then the answer is finding a brace I am comfy to wear and that doesn't make me look like Jane Fonda. 🙂

5 hours ago, Coilte said:

There is another technique called the "Moveable Anchor" where the thumb rests on the string above (or sometimes... two above ) the one being plucked. As with the FT, the arm does not rest of the body of the bass.

That's pretty much my playing style for 90% of the time, problem is it doesn't take much to set it off so 10% is probably too much 😞

14 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Strange, I was at reading in 83 and I don't remember seeing you there  Mind you, if you ended up in thames valley police station afterwards trying to identify all the stuff that was nicked, then maybe I did! 

There was probably a curtain of p***-filled plastic bottles between us....

1 hour ago, dodge_bass said:

I think it’s worth considering too that you would NEVER get given tab in any kind of professional setting.

As a user of professional GIS, that's kind of like me saying to an amateur naturalist 'bear in mind you won't be supplied data from google maps'.

1 hour ago, dodge_bass said:

Clearly it’s an emotive subject but my experience from the ‘other side’ as a strong reading musician is that it’s only musicians who can’t read who kick up a fuss and want to read tab / improve tab.

Perhaps that's exactly it. I can't read notation, so better tab would help me.

1 hour ago, dodge_bass said:

Learning to read took many years and much frustration on my part - so it’s not an easy process either but it’s a very valuable one. Not what the OP wants to hear I doubt but there we go.

Aside from my inability to even achieve reading at a sub-Grade 1 level, despite years of attempts, I already know that.

Why, for the love of God, is it that raising the issue of improving tab generates such an outpouring of (effectively) demands that the questionner should learn notation?

The fact is I don't, and never will, be in a position where I need to sight read unless I volunteer myself into it. In forty-plus years of playing with other people I have never needed to sight read (although i did bluff through singing lessons by being very quick at picking up a simple melody by ear).

I use written music as a way to  assist with learning  (or very rarely composing or transposing) music and speed of reading is not the priority. I just need a guide , and I find tab works for me and notation doesn't.

Also, sight-readers need to accept that for some people there is a dichotomy between theory and practice. I have bothered to learn some musical theory and it does help me a bit (but not much) when learning a song. I'm sure notation helps keyboard players and those who wish to understand the harmonic structure of a piece, but in practice most people just use notation to know what note to play next, just as with tab.

No amount of protestation by sight-readers is going to change that, I'm afraid; they have to accept that for some people under some circumstances, tab is not just the better option, but the only option.

The point of this thread is that some tablature is great and makes it really easy to learn a piece of music, some of it is abysmal. I was hoping to discuss what the features of good tab were and ways to promote them. But it seems that either other tab users don't want to or they fear the scorn of the sight-readers.

As a result of this discussion and my attempts to learnt quite a lot of music over recent weeks, I have seen a lot more variation of approach. I honestly think that notation itself will get a lot of competition in the next twenty years as more expressive and accessible ways of presenting music that use dynamic display are developed - already a lot of keyboard players are getting started using 'waterfall' display, for example, which has huge potential to be developed further. There is also dynamic tab that replaces the heads of notes with fret numbers and uses very strict spacing rules for duration information, done well this gets close to classical notation for readability.

With existing technology you can just share the music over bluetooth as midi file and each person can display it on their own device and switch it to their favourite 'reader' while keeping in synch with everyone else. So one person could be reading notation, another tab and another just getting chord symbols, all in real time while they play together.

This is the sort of idea I was thinking of:

I think bass could be presented as an image of a fretboard with markers for finger positions that behave to show when they are damping, pressing down and also highlighting the next ones coming. An arrow could fade in show a pending slide and the marker could actually make the movement when it is due. Combine this with lower level indicators to show the scale currently in use (and highlighting root etc.) you could probably convey more information than on a stave. Imagine being able to see not just the line you are playing on the fretboard but also all the opportunities for improving or adding fills while staying in key and yet changing dynamically through the piece. Might work better for Giant Steps than notation?

Alternatively... play Clash of Clans. I find winning three versus battles and two multiplayer battles takes about 15 minutes clears my head and leaves me ready to kip.

The rehearsals might be making you feel guilty about not doing all the other things instead. Plus the fear now that the insomnia will stop you coping on Tuesday, so it's a vicious circle.

Perhaps something that helps you step outside all the day to day worries for a few hours is just what you need to 'depressurise' and face lifes's little challenges.

Also it's likely that the relief of rehearsal is giving you a big buzz.

My advice is no caffeine after 6-7pm, I go tea only before then.

When I have had insomnia in the past, I found valerian works well, but if you take it too regularly it gives you (very) lucid dreams. Once a week after rehearsal might work for you.

On 09/05/2019 at 20:48, Jabba_the_gut said:

On 09/05/2019 at 17:02, Cuzzie said:

 

The Midas touch.....

Goooowldfiiiiingeeeerrrrrr.....

2 hours ago, spectoremg said:

They'd be called Winston and the Hitlers.

Or Glenn and the Millers...

Ha! I went to Glastonbury once. I remember Richard Thompson (possibly with Fairport), Hank Wangford and the Mutoid Waste Company. I also remember walking to Glasto to buy a cheap cagoule (I still have).

I don't remember anything else* except we drank all the Tequila we brought intending to run a tequila sunrise stall...

It appears to have been 85, as that wasa Mutoids first year there. I vaguely recall that I saw a bit of Dr and the Medics before Wangford. No sign of the Thompo kid on the bill, perhaps I saw John Martyn and someone told me it was RT?

Maybe it was 84, because Fairport and Wangford went that year.

Perhaps I went both years?

Hmm. I can't think of any reason why I wouldn't have.

*To be honest I am fairly confident I only saw a couple of bands. I was too busy with the whole Seventh Seal cum Monty Python and the Holy Grail renactment experience... Glastonbury was never about music in the days when they had good bands.

I DO remember Reading '83 though, because I taped SRV when they played his set again on Radio 1.

Book me in 🙂

I wish I had tried one of my basses through some of the amps/speakers that were on display.

2 hours ago, Coilte said:

Have you considered changing your technique ? With the "Floating Thumb" technique the arm does not rest on the body of the bass.

 

 

Interesting , I'll try and be more aware - I have actually tried keeping my arm in that position, though I like my thumb down in the strings. But I'm not convinced I could stick to it - I change my playing position all the time, from right by the bridge to over the fifteenth fret.

OK. More than  one person has commented that my 'entirely unlike a Ric in every possible way' Hohner B2 can sound curiously like one, despite having humbuckers (or perhaps because of them) - quite aggressive on the bridge pickup with clear harmonics and good clarity if playing chords.

It's good to know I'm not alone - even if it isn't good that other folks have wrist problems!

Thanks for the suggestions and links.

I've order a 'wrist band' support because I think I want to avoid constraining my hand and will see how I get on.

3 hours ago, Grangur said:

I don't know if I'm talking about mid-scoop, but IME when you turn both volumes to full, the total output takes a dip in volume.

If you wire the PUs out of phase when you do that the fundamental becomes very faint and the higher harmonics dominate.

2 hours ago, prowla said:

So, what vastly cheaper instrument does the job as well or better than a Ric bass?

I have my opinions but I won't go there as it's highly subjective and what one person might think sounds just like one might be noting like it to another!